Industry Forums > Wireless Service Providers > Own ARIN IPs

reply to Semaphore

Re: Own ARIN IPs

Earlier this year I considered buying a /23 outright from another company.... 15K to 20K for 512 IP's (ouch). But I would outright own them and then at least I'd have enough to qualify to ARIN for a /20. Right? Brilliant lets do it! Oh, but Wait. ARIN then informed me that if I 'own' a /23 block they will force it to be returned, or simply refuse yet again to provide the /20 - so I'd end up paying up to 20K for a /20 which I would then ALSO have to lease from them ongoing. And that 'deal' didn't even come with any lube.... So a year later I'm still arguing with upstreams and ARIN and getting no where. Un-bleeping-real.

reply to Inssomniak
That would be sweet!

reply to TomS_
Well own them to the extent that I couldn't get anymore from ARIN unless I surrendered them lol. Sounds kinda like pulling up the gas pumps and being told that you have to get rid of all the fuel in your tank before you can purchase more, and there's no credit for the fuel you're going to dump (into the stations tanks).

I previously worked for a very large company and they outright owned a number of blocks. The largest was a full Class A. They had a 1/2 dozen Class B's and a shitload of C's they started on IP in the early-mid 80's.

ROFLMAO now I look at that link and the company I worked for is focus of the subject. Damn I shoulda sold myself some.

reply to Inssomniak
Easy solution is to only buy backhaul from your provider to a carrier hotel and get two providers there. It usually works out cheaper anyways.
--
Broadline Networks Inc.

reply to Inssomniak
We just went through the process of moving over to our own address space. Got a /22 from ARIN. Had to show intent to multihome by providing billing from two upstream providers that we currently use, and then as other said have to lay out a spreadsheet showing your current use to justify having a block of that size. you need to show majority usage of the addresses you have in play now.

reply to Inssomniak
Yeppers. We're in that stage now.

I'm confident it'll go through as we're able to show that we are pretty much full.

reply to Inssomniak
We (Kaballero.Com) did it when we multi-homed Quest and AT&T several years ago. They now have 4 /22s and every sub has a public as does most of the infrastructure. At least that is the way I set it up before I left. They had maybe 2200 subs when I left and the parent company (which has declared bankruptcy) Virginia Broadband had another 2000 or so. They also had an ASN and a couple of /22s. If you are multi-homed you definately should go ahead and get your ASN and a block of addresses.

Also strongly recommend that you go ahead and get IPv6 up and running on your networks. You are going to want it badly in less than 5 years.
--
Once we IPv6 enable every device on the Internet we will have toasters, baby monitors, and security cameras joining the bot nets which today are populated only by idiots that can not refrain from clicking, "Yes I would like to see those titties..."

My problem is that Im not multi homed. Fibre is not cheap where I am, and definitely dont need 2 100mb feeds right now, or am I not understanding how this works?

Twizlar mentioned getting backhaul to a carrier hotel, and getting 2 providers, how does that work? do I have to co-lo my own router there in the datacenter and then get 2 providers to that router?
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

Yes you would want to home a router there probably. When we were dual homed we got our ASN and address space. Then we single homed to AT&T and to keep our dual home status we homed with a customer who had their own T-1 with Verizon. You can be multi-homed through a customer. That is what he meant I think.

So suppose you have a hotel in your area that is homed to Quest and you are homed to Comcast. If you set up BGP between you and the hotel you are now dual homed even if they don't advertize your addresses through their pipe. They do have to run BGP to their primary and you do need to advertize their address space to the world.
--
Once we IPv6 enable every device on the Internet we will have toasters, baby monitors, and security cameras joining the bot nets which today are populated only by idiots that can not refrain from clicking, "Yes I would like to see those titties..."

So ok Im understanding better now.
I still dont understand what happens once I have a backhaul to say a data centre, I have my router there, and at that point I need to buy internet from 2 companies. I want 100mb, Id have to buy 100 mb from 2 providers even if I never use provider 2?

I have my provider that could get me a backhaul into 151 front st carrier hotel. who am I actually renting space from to put my router?

As it stands now I have got a deal to get 100mb internet from a company. I was not going to be locating any router with them, is it a good idea at this point to co-lo a router with them there now?
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

Ok got it thx for explaining that.

I do not on the other hand have any customers that have other means to connect to the internet.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

Just need to correct one thing I said. Neither of you need to have an ASN. Once you decide to peer with BGP you both qualify for an ASN.

reply to Inssomniak
Yeah sorry I should have clarified more. You would simply sign agreements with 2 providers for bandwidth and then have it backhauled to your routers/pop. You don't need to place your router at the datacenter, you can have both connections backhauled over a vlan to your pop.

You would buy a 100mbit port to both providers and then purchase however much bandwidth you needed based on 95th percentile. Realistically you could probably get 100mbit unmetered connections for around $300-400 each plus your backhaul costs. Once you get close to needing 100mbit it is usually cheaper to backhaul it and purchase your own transit this way versus buying 100mbit of bandwidth from your provider.

This would meet all the requirements of being dual homed and would allow you to get an ASN and an IP allocation.

If you don't mind me asking who are you getting the fibre from?
--
Broadline Networks Inc.

Yep, thats exactly how it would work. Shaw would give you a vlan across their network and terminating on their router/switch at 151 Front Street. You would then contract 2 providers and purchase bandwidth from them. You would work with your fibre provider to backkhaul the bandwidth to your location, typically this portion is fairly easy to do though.

The only thing you need to watch out for is cross connect fees if your provider isn't willing to drop your vlan into the meet me room.
--
Broadline Networks Inc.

reply to Inssomniak
I use a Freeware app called Observium to monitor some of my commercial customers who are billed on 95th. You could use it to monitor yourself. Basically it takes utilization samples at regular intervals (typically 5 minutes) and discards the top 5% of the samples. What you're left with is the 95th.

95th is a "good idea" if your traffic is bursty; you get about 36 hours a month where you can hit 100% but you are being billed for 95% of that. Most providers look at in and out traffic separately and bill for the highest of the two.

Some will charge you steep overage fees if you exceed your 95th though so you need to be careful in that regard.

I wish independent transit was an option in my area. I had to build 40kms in each direction just to reach a single supplier at each end. LOL Forget about transit. Should be glad I have light.