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Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
reply to Suzie

Re: [speed/latency] Massive network slowdown every morning after

I talked to someone today from Fairpoint im not really sure what his job is but he seemed to be a go between guy for the tech support. He just gatherered information to pass on to tech support but didnt really offer any advise. I tried to express how this was a nightly issue and seemed to be occuring around the time when all the kids get out of school and everyone gets out of work and seems like a congestion issue to me. I mentioned how i cant even watch a video without it constantly buffering. He agreed that the way people use the internet is alot different then it was about 10 years ago and that everyone watching videos was using up alot more bandwidth. So i did some research on dsl congestion and usually latency and bandwidth arent connected unless the line is 95-100% saturated then you will see start seeing an increase in latency. So that brings me to this question..if the lines are oversold what can they do to fix this problem? Is it a card or a switch they can upgrade/replace somewhere? I know theyve had financial problems as a company..but i keep hearing how theyre trying to make broadband available to everyone and expand their area. How about taking care of the customers they have now instead of trying to get more new ones.

Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
reply to Suzie
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Jeremy>ping google.com -t

Pinging google.com [74.125.226.201] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=170ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=169ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=160ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=172ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=164ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=170ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=178ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=179ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=187ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=187ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=187ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=197ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=187ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=188ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=187ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=189ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=183ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=193ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=180ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=186ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=183ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=182ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=181ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=185ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.226.201: bytes=32 time=192ms TTL=50

Ping statistics for 74.125.226.201:
Packets: Sent = 28, Received = 28, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 160ms, Maximum = 197ms, Average = 180ms

modem_reset

join:2010-05-27
Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·ObiVoice
The unfortunate thing is we don't really know..we can guess but we don't know.

an educated guess would be upgrade the hardware and line into the pop. How long this takes is another question completely, it's unfortunately not as easy as going to Best buy and buying a gigabit switch to upgrade your home network from 100mb to 1gb. There are business decisions, customer impact, man power etc...

the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


again

@rr.com
reply to Jeremy1976
When they bought the Verizon system, the agreement was to give almost everyone internet.
No where in the agreement was there a stipulation that is was to work right, just that it was installed.

Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..

1 edit
reply to Suzie
Sunday evening 8pm just another typical night in terms of my fairpoint service..have not heard back from tech support in a few days. They did say though that they were following my posts on this site so i'll continue posting my statistics until the problem is resolved. What good is bandwidth if it cant be used for anything besided reading articles and checking my email? When i think of speed for an internet connection i think in terms of latency not bandwidth. I already know the answer to my own question its just pretty frustrating. An isp can increase/sell bandwidth to pretty much whatever they want. They cant really do to much to decrease latency beyond a certain point...but cmon 150-200ms ping? thats unacceptable be fair Fairpoint 50ms i wont complain. Is it unreasonable for me to ask to have a realiable 50 ms latency that i normaly get during the day? Upgrade something...

Tracing route to google.com [74.125.226.194]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms
2 151 ms 203 ms 298 ms d-ptld-bng1-64-222-214-1.ngn.east.myfairpoint.ne
t [64.222.214.1]
3 118 ms 203 ms 203 ms pool-64-222-213-19.port.east.myfairpoint.net [64
.222.213.19]
4 210 ms * 114 ms pool-64-222-213-134.port.east.myfairpoint.net [6
4.222.213.134]
5 120 ms 117 ms 116 ms xe-0-2-0.mpr4.bos2.us.above.net [64.124.202.29]

6 117 ms 117 ms 125 ms xe-1-0-0.mpr3.bos2.us.above.net [64.125.25.65]
7 125 ms 122 ms 123 ms xe-4-3-0.cr1.lga5.us.above.net [64.125.24.106]
8 125 ms 123 ms 139 ms xe-4-3-0.cr2.lga5.us.above.net [64.125.22.170]
9 128 ms 130 ms 130 ms xe-0-0-1.er4.lga5.us.above.net [64.125.24.169]
10 127 ms 127 ms 129 ms 72.14.212.130
11 126 ms 127 ms 126 ms 209.85.248.178
12 130 ms 131 ms 130 ms 72.14.239.250
13 131 ms 131 ms 131 ms lga15s28-in-f2.1e100.net [74.125.226.194]

Trace complete.


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
Click for full size
DSL backhaul
The huge hit to latency at the second hop is the ISP edge router. I've posted this picture before but it should help you understand what is going on. This is a typical Verizon DSL setup, I assume configuration is much the same with Fairpoint but do not know for sure.

Everything from your modem to the far right ISP edge router is carried over ATM, hiding the details from IP. the 2nd hop in your traceroute is the ISP edge router marked Router or PPPoE Access Concentrator. After that traceroute will work normally reporting each IP hop.

The horrible latency means somewhere between the DSLAM that feeds your circuit and that router there is congestion. Most likely the backhaul out of the DSLAM, but only FairPoint knows for sure.

That knowledge does nothing to resolve your problem but at least should give you a better idea of what is going on under the covers.

good Luck.

/tom

Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..

3 edits
Thanks Tom, youve been very helpful i appreciate that. Can Fairpoint isolate the problem? I would hope they can. Using this tool i found in an old thread these were my results. Not sure how useful it is, i'll have to run it during different times of the day and see what it says for information. »70.20.31.250/ndt2/

TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.3.3e
click START to begin
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client to server) . . . . . 811.42Kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server to client) . . . . . . 2.73Mb/s
Your PC is connected to a Cable/DSL modem
Information: Other network traffic is congesting the link

Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
monday 1 pm

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Jeremy>tracert google.com

Tracing route to google.com [74.125.226.198]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 4 ms 3 ms
2 47 ms 47 ms 47 ms d-ptld-bng1-64-222-214-1.ngn.east.myfairpoint.ne
t [64.222.214.1]
3 48 ms 47 ms 47 ms pool-64-222-213-19.port.east.myfairpoint.net [64
.222.213.19]
4 48 ms 47 ms 46 ms pool-64-222-213-134.port.east.myfairpoint.net [6
4.222.213.134]
5 52 ms 51 ms 51 ms xe-1-2-0.mpr4.bos2.us.above.net [64.125.71.169]

6 52 ms 48 ms 51 ms xe-1-0-0.mpr3.bos2.us.above.net [64.125.25.65]
7 57 ms 57 ms 57 ms xe-5-3-0.cr1.lga5.us.above.net [64.125.24.110]
8 58 ms 57 ms 57 ms xe-1-0-0.cr2.lga5.us.above.net [64.125.29.46]
9 57 ms 57 ms 57 ms xe-0-0-1.er4.lga5.us.above.net [64.125.24.169]
10 58 ms 57 ms 58 ms 72.14.212.130
11 58 ms 57 ms 103 ms 209.85.248.178
12 57 ms 57 ms 56 ms 72.14.239.250
13 57 ms 56 ms 57 ms lga15s28-in-f6.1e100.net [74.125.226.198]

Trace complete.

Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..

1 edit
reply to Suzie
Im beginning to think Fairpoint just may be the worst dsl isp in the country...just look at the front page of the fairpoint forums...nothing but problems. Speed//latency slow..its the same thing over and over. Almost seems like a 3rd world country in terms of service. Reading alot of threads seems like many many people are dealing with the same problems as me with no help or barely any at all from tech support. Theres more negative reviews then good ones. I would bet alot of people this is their only option too and are forced to be stuck with them. I cant even get an email back or a phone call for crying out loud and i called them and emailed them continuously. And the 1 or 2 times someone did call me they did absolutely nothing. Offered no help no suggestions basically i feel like im screwed. Ive even offered to help pay some of the costs if they could install additional equipment up the road or whatever it takes. I can get TWC but its gonna cost me big bucks because of my situation having underground utilities and being 500ft from the pole they need larger coax then whats typically installed in order to do this i have to pay for the wire and install 500' of 2" conduit. I guess thats what im gonna have to do because Fairpoint and this pathetic Dsl is gonna drive me nuts. Im wasting my money with them so what's it matter? Wake up Fairpoint you are going to lose all your customers very soon to verizon 4G if you dont improve your system. Pretty soon and i mean real soon if you can get a cell phone signal you'll be able to get wireless broadband most people already can. You've already lost most of your land lines to cell phones...broadband is all youve got left and your about to lose that battle very soon if you dont do something. Bankruptcy looks inevitable...doesn't take a rocket scientists to read the writing on the wall.

modem_reset

join:2010-05-27
Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·ObiVoice
reply to Suzie
Here are some facts from my time in an isp call center (over 6 years). The only people who write or call in have an issue. This goes for the online forums that people have found.

having said that. I made the decision to go with DSL service in my home.
1.) I knew Fairpoint was messed up..but that also meant they had no resources to proactively work on issues (from abuse, to upgrades).

2.) DSL is a heavily regulated line..it goes off of POTS lines and should never be 'dead'. In a power outage DSL will work, Cable won't
.
3.) Any last mile service provider has ins and outs that are issues.
Please look at the RoadRunner forum, it's spattered with 'how can i convince twc the issue is theirs and not mine' (just like this one).

I can tell you that with the 500' drop from twc, your best bet would be to have someone else dig the lines from your home to the pole, put conduit in, with a pull string that will be cheaper. but you will have a different set of potential issues. Cable is very power dependent, their batteries are ~6 hours our area. The headend is on generator and battery backup, but the lines from the "Node" to your home need power (rf needs amplifiers and line extenders).

For me my 5mb 1mb up is slow for my family needs. However, some of twc's corporate policies (three strikes, traffic shaping etc) are cons that I find not worth their speed. For 18 months in my home I had both dsl and cable. dsl was slow (3mb @ the time), but never dropped. I had 15 days w/out cable and cmp (hurricane Irene). We had generator and dsl.

please vote with your wallet...it is a free market for a reason. Remember the line the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.


again

@rr.com
Cable over decaying copper wires, no contest.


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting

1 edit
said by again :

Cable over decaying copper wires, no contest.

I hate to sound like a shill for the TELCOs but a lot depends on the local company. There are plenty of horror stories about poor Cable performance.

All else being equal DOCSIS 3 is capable of much higher speed then ADSL2+ and even VDLS2 in most cases.

Neither flavor of broadband over copper, ADSL or DOCSIS, comes close to fiber speed but FTTP is not coming to most of us any time soon.

By way of personal experience when I was a FairPoint ADSL customer my speed was stable, as is the case since I switched to CLEC ADSL.

/tom
fixed typos

modem_reset

join:2010-05-27
Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·ObiVoice
reply to Suzie
Cable has it's flaws. It's RF based and any cut in the shielding on the lines in the 'node' you are in can cause problems.

I have heard of bad sump pumps (Portland harbor), Buck shot in the line (yarmouth), Rubbing of the cables on the pole (Presque Isle), water in line (bangor)..all degrading the signal of internet into customer's homes.

I second the opinion above. It might not be the fastest, but it's reliable.

Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
Not for me it isnt..i mean if all i ever wanted to do was browse web pages i guess it would be, but i like to stream movies and watch a video once in awhile too unfortunately im unable to with Fairpoint unless you want to wait 5 hours to watch an hour and a 1/2 movie while its buffering.

Jeremy1976

join:2012-01-15
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..

4 edits

1 recommendation

reply to Suzie
According to TWC i am qualified to get the 50/5 ultimate plan. And asking on the TWC forum avg ping times to google are 40ms from Maine. I know some company just ran about 50 miles of Fiber from Belfast to Augusta last summer not sure who it was for or if its even active yet..i can always dream.

Also i did finally speak to someone from Fairpoint again today...basically i was told they did do some stuff in Maine to switch things around i said well whatever they did nothing changed on my end. I asked what the deal was and he said its a problem for everyone and every company in Maine not just Fairpoint..i dunno if i really believe that, but whatever. I asked what he thought the outcome would be or if they could fix it. He said he doesnt have a time frame and it really comes down to how much money they want to spend. The thing that put me off the most was when he said "yea we can spend a bunch of money and upgrade the lines etc. and get the problem straightened out and in a few years things will probably be just like it is again now because more people will be using up the bandwidth" I respect his honesty i have nothing against this man personally its the fact that Fairpoint wont put the money in to their system when they know its very poor compared to the rest of the country and its maxed out for its capabillities. To say that yea we can fix it now but once people realize its good more people will sign up and start using it and it will be bad again sounded crazy to me. Yes it might be true but isnt that what you want if your a company? you want more customers right..then your suppose to keep up on the upgrades. Dont just keep selling a service you can barely even maintain now and is degrading by the day..thats bad business. At least in the end I got some closure to my problem I was told that it was a congestion problem during peak hours just like i thought it was throughout this thread. He couldn't promise me anything and said he wished he could but i ended the conversation feeling the same way i did when this all began....helpless.

modem_reset

join:2010-05-27
Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·ObiVoice
again, talking from my time in a call center envoriment, when I picked up the phone the first 30 seconds i could tell tone and what you wanted me to say. If I was in a fighting mood, i would lay the polite smack down and tell you what was really happening. if I was in a passive mode or what you were asking for was not unreasonable..I would give in.

saying that I'm not sure what the issue is for you. I can tell you that the person you talked to on the phone most likely has no idea either. There are very few people in a company like FP or TWC that actually know what is going on..the rest are there to pacify us the customer.

Anyone is 'qualified' for the 50/5 plan, their network is not limited to distances from a POP or anything like FP.

One customer said to me as they disconnected.
I would rather drive a pinto that got $0 maintenance, for years a time then drive a fancy lambo that needed expensive repairs every month.

To be clear, I don't work for any ISP at this time, I have no ill will to the people I worked with. Just the technology in my area seems to support dsl as a better choice.
I hope TWC is a better choice for you.


again

@rr.com
reply to tschmidt
My cable wires were replaced about 10 yrs ago, fiber at the main road. The copper, that degrades is the original as far as I know, been in same house 46 years.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by again :

My cable wires were replaced about 10 yrs ago, fiber at the main road. The copper, that degrades is the original as far as I know, been in same house 46 years.

A lot will depend on the company. I know of a 49-year-old neighborhood with 3-year-old copper. F2 binder was replaced three years ago. But it wasn't Fairpoint or Verizon.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


again

@rr.com
I was told recently that FairPoint just cut commissions on there sales staff, things can't be good.

egilbe

join:2011-03-07
After two years with Fairpoint, I've had it. 300+ ms ping times and .3Mbps downloads is unacceptable. I was getting the same download speeds from TWC, for half the price. I've called, reported it, but a month should be plenty of time to fix a local problem. If its a network issue, that's not going to be fixed any time soon.

modem_reset

join:2010-05-27
reply to Suzie
If same issue on different carriers..i would suggest looking at your home network. DSL and Cable use very different technologies, one is radio based other is atm based.

egilbe

join:2011-03-07
said by modem_reset:

If same issue on different carriers..i would suggest looking at your home network. DSL and Cable use very different technologies, one is radio based other is atm based.

Issues with Fairpoint started the last 4 months. Before that it was fine, except when I initially had service installed and it was resolved.

TWC, It was fine until I moved into this neighborhood two years ago. Peak time, shared bandwidth, speeds dropped. Off hours it was fine. Different equipment on my Home network from TWC and with Fairpoint.

modem_reset

join:2010-05-27
but you are having the same issue on both? The only common ground is your equipment.

It is VERY different technology for both company's when the signal leaves your home.

egilbe

join:2011-03-07
Why do you keep saying its the equipment when it's different equipment? Cable and DSL uses different equipment.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by egilbe:

Why do you keep saying its the equipment when it's different equipment? Cable and DSL uses different equipment.

Granted, the modems are different; but the router is not part of the modem, even if it is in the same RG enclosure with the modem. Whether the connection is internal (RG box) or external, there is a hardware interface between the router (implied by "home network") and the modem. And the router can influence issues; not to mention that PC activities can, as well.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

egilbe

join:2011-03-07
westell 7500 modem with integrated router for Fairpoint. Motorola surfboard modem with WNDR3400 router with TWC. The router used with TWC is now at my kids house using TWC with no issues at all. The Westell 7500 used with Fairpoint works as advertised...and then it doesn't. Different equipment. Its not on my end.

egilbe

join:2011-03-07
fine yesterday, fine this morning...now


egilbe

join:2011-03-07

egilbe

join:2011-03-07

egilbe

join:2011-03-07