dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3895
share rss forum feed

Maze

join:2006-02-02
USA, NYC

2 edits

I don't want to hand over my deep personal information

Hello,

I could use some help right now as I'm terrified of what is going on in my Country. The question(s) is/are closer to the end. I can't simply jump to them before explaining. However, feel free to Jump to the Question(s) if it makes it easier for you. Last night I wanted to order a Graphics Card replacement for my Mom. Her Computer is old by today's standards -- but it is workable for her needs. So, it is not reasonable to buy from a normal online Store; for the Price I need for something of that value and eventually which is going to be discarded.

So I log into my PayPal account and verify that I have enough funds. I do yay! So I proceed and order a Graphics Card from Ebay. I'm happy that my Mom will have a better Graphics Card in time for the Holidays. The happy endorphins rush through my Brain! Fine all is ok but I decide to Login to my PayPal to add extra funds from my Bank Account for later use again. I click where it used to be "add funds from Bank" and it is nowhere in sight. Huh? Later I get an email from PayPal that my PayPal account has become limited. I also am now greeted on the main page as well.

They now need my Social Security number because of "1099K" Reporting Law. This is regardless of the amount in your PayPal.

Isn't Identity theft on the internet "the cloud" very real?

I know that some of the most reputable online sites that exist if you follow the news; they have become victims and hacked by hackers. So how can that department(you know who) even dream up about this Law? What were they thinking? Social Security behind a password? Regardless; the password can be a poem. I think that we all know how safe it is online to conduct sensitive things such as transactions. This is always a potential for something to go wrong in this "Cloud Computing" thing. Or even the end users own Computers Operating Sytem even if the user is very careful exploits, holes, etc. Couldn't they have saved all citizens by simply implementing something more safer from the potential identity theft? If so how?

If a common saying is that what you post on the internet remains on the internet forever. That the Internet is a Public highway right? So doesn't that mean that nothing is really Private on the internet and everything can be listened to? In other words isn't it like putting my Social Security number on the Bench or flash it somewhere in a Public Space? I may not see the logic behind this; if so feel free to chime in and correct me. I'll accept the new way at looking at it from a different angle.

What makes it worse is that PayPal is now not only wants my Social Security typed in!

PayPal now wants from me:

1. A Scanned Picture of me.
2. A Utility Bill (if I can find any in my name at this time).
3. A Scanned Copy of my Social Security.


Nicely uploaded or of course Faxed to them and trust that it is going not to end up being Stolen somehow.

I need PayPal for many things and it is not just PayPal that must surrender to this new law.

So here we are fighting trying to protect Citizens from Identity theft. Yet on the other side we must surrender our Social Security online. This just does not make any sense for me. So someone uses a Social Security Number in part to commit fraud. Later an innocent Citizen has to proof why they must not be locked up for the next 100 years for committing some type of felonious act.

I also think that the Picture + Utility Bill + Scanned Social Security reminds me of a certain Country thinking style. I really don't have much knowledge on this thing; because of my time frame from conception did not coincide too well. With the politics of the time in that country for me in order to have any prior knowledge. That is outside of Academical information which I have learned online and through history books. What I have said above was the country where my family left in search of Justice and better life into the US. I love the Constitution no doubt and would not trade it for anything. However what is happening is a very scary resemblance in my thoughts in my mind of that other country. Even worse is that it starting to look in my opinion even more different than that political system that the other country had even more punishable. I'm afraid the day that a petty thing or saying something that is not considered a norm can get one into the wrong place.

The Picture tying to ones Bills; and to complete the whole profile a number. Might as well stamp the number on each persons arm. Sorry, this is very long I understand for the other person who is reading this. I could not simply have said this any shorter than I already have.



removed
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-08
Houston, TX
kudos:38

2 recommendations

TL;DR summary for those who don't want to read 12 paragraphs about the OP's mom's old computer:
OP is unhappy because the IRS requires that PayPal collect tax reporting information. Compares this to "Nazi Germany" type policies (oh dear) and is worried about having to wear a number on his arm.



To the OP: don't use PayPal if this is a deal breaker. Thousands of sites exist that accept direct payment via any major card. If this is also too scary, you could always step back in time and shop in brick & mortar stores like my grandmother does.

I hope this helps.
--
irc.removed.us - #dslr

Maze

join:2006-02-02
USA, NYC

1 edit

Removed,

I have no problem about the reporting but what I do have a problem with is not finding a way to make it safer. Perhaps maybe creating a secondary number of some sort specially for online taxation for individuals? Before they made the law I think they should have designed a plan.

I don't think it is safe to have Paypal, or any other site; store a Social Security Number. Haven't you read ever before People getting in trouble with the Law because of stolen personal information?

Firstly, I was not comparing what you have said "IRS" (Additional words by me# which are legitimate needs to collect) to Nazi Germany. No, No!! So in partial you have misread what I have tried to say. I was saying that some actions that are taking place here are starting to resemble a changed Country that no longer in fullness adhere to its principles in my opinion. Example Consumer protection: Why hasn't anyone stepped in and tell PayPal that this is not safe and that they should find a safer way? Maybe Mail it? but Fax it or send online?

Again, I did not make comparison between the both that you have written about it was a misunderstanding. Your misunderstanding however was my fault. I have written multiple thoughts under the same post. Sorry!
However, I don't think anyone should be quick to dismiss about the Arm thing and take for granted the very idea of freedom.

I do however agree about Brick and Mortal however if you ever come over here to my areas. You'll notice that more Block are starting to be replaced with more Banks and Pharmacies! In some places two banks or five Banks / Pharmacies per a Block! Just recently we lost a Vegetable store to a new Bank. If I need a Technology purchases chances are online is better (more choices for reason mentioned more stores etc) but I want it safe and legitimate.

LOL; I'm not crazy but you don't have to believe me I know.

Your solution helps in the idea Thanks but for reasons I said above it is getting harder.



removed
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-08
Houston, TX
kudos:38

1 recommendation

said by Maze:

Why hasn't anyone stepped in and tell PayPal that this is not safe and that they should find a safer way? Maybe Mail it? but Fax it or send online?

Where do you think documents go when they've been mailed somewhere? Just about everything is scanned in and computerized now-a-days. In the 60s, "Larry from the Records Department" might have pulled your document from a file cabinet, but it's just not like that anymore.
--
irc.removed.us - #dslr


Bogden
Premium
join:2000-07-11
Richmond, VA
reply to Maze

That situation to me also seems quite heavy handed, especially based on their history. I'd look to alternatives to Pay Pal.

Here »www.wired.com/geekdad/2011/12/5-···pal/all/ are some suggested alternates.



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Maze

What kind of PP account is it? Mine is just attached to a credit card and they've never asked me for anything except name, add, CC number.

FWIW I have received some fake PP emails asking for info

I agree with you, I wouldn't send them the info either.
--
--
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

1 recommendation

reply to Maze

Since the OP likes bold text, I'll say it in bold: Cancel your PayPal account.

Shop in stores in person. Pay cash. Problem solved.


mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
kudos:1
reply to Maze

Are you for real?

I bought an item on ebay just last night and paid through PayPal. All I needed was the usual username/password. They didn't ask for any of the stuff you claim they are demanding.

I think the info requested was part of a phishing scam, or your account has already been hacked and PayPal needs to verify who you are, or you are committing some kind of fraud yourself and PayPal is onto it.

You should start by finding out if this is a real policy or not and go from there. Even in these times, I find it hard to believe they would demand all that information just to make a simple purchase.

I suspect there is a lot of detail being left out of your story.


tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2
reply to Maze

said by Maze:

Later I get an email from PayPal that my PayPal account has become limited. I also am now greeted on the main page as well.

First, delete the email and then log directly into Paypal yourseld by typing www.paypal.com. Start over from this point and see what happens.


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to mocycler

said by mocycler:

I think the info requested was part of a phishing scam, or your account has already been hacked and PayPal needs to verify who you are, or you are committing some kind of fraud yourself and PayPal is onto it.

I concur as I have had these come to me as well.

When you get an email from a company wanting you to verify who you are - DON'T click any links in the email.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
reply to Maze

Business accounts with paypal are the only one from what I understand needs to verify these things. Downgrade to a Premier account.



Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA
reply to Maze

I don't have PayPal. Actually have never used it. I think my wife does but it is tied to her credit card. If you are nervous about PayPal why not just used a CC?
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war



caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
Premium
join:2005-01-16
WA, USA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

1 recommendation

reply to Maze

I agree with the other posters who are saying this is not normal.

I've had Ebay and PP accounts since 2005 and have never seen any of this. I also never keep any balance in the PP account at all. I have, however, seen MANY phising emails and people with trojaned computers getting asked for all sorts of odd information.

Either you've been duped, phished, are using a business account for personal use or you're under some sort of investigation.

BTW, just because it's older doesn't mean you can't buy something under $30 from Amazon, Newegg, Tigerdirect, or a dozen other online retailers. Not to mention Craigslist or even from our own classifieds.
--

My 9/11 Tribute..online since 9/14/01
Need an Avatar? Check out Wafen's Avatar Pages



caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
Premium
join:2005-01-16
WA, USA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to Maze

AGP cards: »www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi···04X%2f8X

PCI (not Express): »www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi···name=PCI

Yes, chances are I would buy really old stuff from here or from Ebay, but just showing ya that they do exist for around $30 at a reputable online store.
--

My 9/11 Tribute..online since 9/14/01
Need an Avatar? Check out Wafen's Avatar Pages



runnoft
Premium
join:2003-10-14
Deerfield, IL
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Maze

It could be a phishing attack. It could be because he has a non-verified Paypal account, and Paypal is suspicious about his account for some reason. Paypal has in the past asked some customers for a copy of a utility bill as proof of address and copy of a photo ID when setting up Paypal account verification even for only buying transactions.

Paypal will ask for proof of a Social Security number but normally only with a selling Paypal account/transaction (because they will report this data to IRS in some circumstances), which this is not as far as we have been told.

I would follow the suggestion to either log in directly to www.paypal.com and see if the same request pops. If it does, call Paypal Customer Service and find out why they want the SSN for a purchase. It doesn't make sense. They don't need it. Maybe someone has coincidentally glommed on to OP's Paypal account and is attempting to sell. Maybe OP is selling something and has not disclosed that here.



bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
reply to Maze

»www.paypal-community.com/t5/Tips···#U511316



M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1
reply to Maze

its a scam bro..



hortnut
Huh?

join:2005-09-25
PNW
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Maze

The IRS is looking for all kinds of unreported Income. Just look at all the different 1099's that there are. Here is one for the Misc. and its 8 pages of instructions. -
»www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099msc_12.pdf

If I had my business today, there would be a ton of 1099's I would have to produce. And to do so, would need to obtain SSN or Federal Id numbers from those providing services. If one would not do so, then no payment from me.

The IRS is also looking at Paypal transactions for "under the table" Income.
Here are a couple articles:
»www.freshbooks.com/blog/2012/01/···rovider/
»www.informationlaw.com/blog/It-T···ount.htm
Here is the Form 1099-K, that covers PayPal and such.
»www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099k.pdf

OTOH, think of all the Institutions that have your SSN. Where do you think these electronic [and once physical] documents are stored.

Maze

join:2006-02-02
USA, NYC

4 edits

Thank You all for the replies regardless of your views towards my post. Secondly, actually this is not a Scam. This is from the actual website »www.paypal.com after logging into my account besides the email they have sent me. If you have not received this yet you will in the coming days.
I'm not sure how to add an inline quote here.

========= Begin Paste ==============
"
PayPal is constantly working to ensure security by
regularly screening the accounts in our system.
We recently reviewed your account, and we need
more information to help us provide you with
secure service. We would like to return your
account to regular standing as soon as possible.
We apologize for the inconvenience.

----------------------------------------------------------------

What is the problem?

Dec 16, 2012: As of April, 2012, new Federal
Regulations require Money Service Businesses,
such as PayPal, to verify the identity of a
customer before we can provide various
services or product offerings. As a result, PayPal must
ensure we have collected and verified important data
such as customer name, address, date of birth, and
national tax ID or social security number.
Because we were not able to fully confirm
your identity based on your current account
information, we need to request additional supporting documentation from you.

You will continue to have full access to your
PayPal account, but until we are able to confirm
your identity, we may be unable to process certain
types of customer initiated requests such as adding funds to your PayPal account.

(Your case ID for this reason is
#Removed by me posting to a public forum)

---------------------------------------------------------
How can I return my account to regular standing?

It's usually pretty easy to take care of things like this.
Most of the time, we just need a little more
information about your account or latest
transactions.

To help us resolve this issue, please go to the
Resolution Center.

We'll review the information you provide and email
you if we need more details.

Once you complete all of the checklist items,
your case will be reviewed by one of our Account
Specialists. We will send you an email with
the outcome of the review.

------------------------------------------------------------------

About Us
"

============== End Paste ===========



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
reply to Maze

BUT...do you just have a regular CC account with PP???


Maze

join:2006-02-02
USA, NYC

I use my Bank Account and don't have a Credit Card but was thinking of getting one.



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3

Okay, maybe that's the difference. I just have a CC.



Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to Maze

First rule:
Don't trust e-mails asking for information. If you get such an email, and you have a membership with that site, go directly to that site. Do not click on any links n the e-mail, do not copy and paste.

Second rule: Contact the site admin staff and see if they were the ones actually requesting the info.

I get several phising emails per day. i don't open them. I figure if a company that I do business with wants to contact me, they will either call, or send a letter in the mail.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to Maze

said by Maze:

I use my Bank Account and don't have a Credit Card but was thinking of getting one.

You could use a credit/debit card as well as a plain old CC.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.

Maze

join:2006-02-02
USA, NYC

Thank You so much Snakeoil actually I'm considering now my options of what to do. Likely, I'm simply going to probably get a Debit Card with my Bank. They have all my personal information on file anyway. As for Ebay I have done a little bit of looking and it can be substitutied with many ways; That is including with other suggestions received here. So, I'm no longer bothered by this in a way.

I will probably still write to my Local Representatives regarding urging them to pass new Laws to guarantee Cloud Providers Responsibilities including limiting Data to Countries that do not follow American laws (those who handle Financial, or sensitive Data) and they shall be steep. That is if a Privacy, or Security breach occurs. Regardless if the Services are Free or not. Unless of course the user for whatever reason failed to take reasonable precautions.

I must admit I'm working on a couple of Ideas on one of my Computers. Even then I have taken the Computer offline after installing (Cad, Engineering Applications, Circuit Simulators)until I can Patent my ideas and submit them for development. What is worse is that in the future they are saying that Computers as a private and local machine in entirety are going away not right away of course I know. So, now in this instance lets say the Inventors/Innovators are forced to use Software as a Service remotely. Now, I have been reading just today online that even NASA and its walking, large Brains of Brainacs experienced "issues" with networked machines. This is not the ordinary people this is one of the smarest People living.

If the Cloud gets hacked even with a strong Encryption; or simply a bad employee in the future somewhere bam goes the intellectual Property stored somewhere else. The only upside is for well resourced Private Companies; those who can run a private cloud will probably be spared the disadvantages of the cloud. I certainly would not have a desire to use AutoCad/Blender, Tina/Circuit Wizard/ktechlab, Eagle/Xcircuit/ so on on over a cloud computer. Especially doing something like that on a Tablet would not be easy.

Thanks Though again to you,
for others I also don't need anymore help and those who offered suggestions for me. Thank You. I was having a panic anxiety Attack after opening my PayPal Page/ Email!



La Luna
Survived Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3
reply to Maze

Here is someone else who had a similar experience.

»PayPal demands SSN and DOB for US Residents


pensioner
Premium
join:2005-02-20
Clarksville, TN
reply to Maze

just read the thread and then went to my paypal account to see what there was to see. As a test I went to the add money to my account and, lo and behold, paypal asked me to enter my date of birth and to enter the last four of my social security number or tax id number. Input the data, data got crunched, and paypay invited me to add money to my account.



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

This makes more sense - where hey ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#.

Makes me believe even more that the OP had a phising attempt in his email box since they asked for a copy of the SS card (entire number).
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain



JALevinworth

@embarqhsd.net

said by CylonRed:

This makes more sense - where hey ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#.

Makes me believe even more that the OP had a phishing attempt in his email box since they asked for a copy of the SS card (entire number).

Sounds like a big-ole phish to me too. I hope OP isn't doing all this from MOMs Computer.. because Mom/Grammy/Gramps computers notoriously have at least one but usually many malicious programs on them; not secured nor up to date with patches and anti-virus. Also, they tend not to understand good security practices. (*tend to, not making blanket statements, just my long term experience working on older folks PCs).

Even so, just because OP can get the same result by going to paypal directly it's also after he had visited some link in an email. The cookie on whatever machine OP used could be compromised if the first link was compromised.

»cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/market···IRS6050W
quote:
Starting in 2011, Internal Revenue Code (IRC) Section 6050W states that all US payment processors, including PayPal, are required by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to provide information to the IRS about certain customers who receive payments for the sale of goods or services through PayPal. These new rules apply to sellers who receive over $20,000 in gross payment volume AND over 200 separate payments in a calendar year. In order to help you understand these changes, we have prepared the following FAQs.

Questions? Login to your account or call 1-877-569-1129

[SNIP]
Under the new legislation, we’ll report to the IRS the total payment volume received by US account holders whose payments exceed both of these levels in a calendar year:

$20,000 USD in gross payment volume from sales of goods or services in a single year
200 payments for goods or services in the same year
[snip]
What does PayPal need from me as a result of the IRS changes?

PayPal will ask affected sellers to update their account(s) by providing a tax ID number, if they don't already have one on file. Your tax ID number is one of these:

Your Social Security Number (SSN)
Your Employer Identification Number (EIN)
Your Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN)

Please use the guidelines below to determine which tax ID number to provide. You should use the tax ID number that you use when reporting any taxable income related to your PayPal activity to the IRS.

It says nothing about all the other info OP says Paypal is asking for. If it's legit, OP would have had to have done that level of transactions ($20K, 200Y)... Unless someone hacked his paypal long before this and was using it.

OP: CALL PAYPAL AND DON'T DO ANYTHING ON THAT FORM UNTIL YOU HAVE CONFIRMED IT'S LEGIT.

-Jim
2012-12-19 10:30:52


Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to M A R S

said by M A R S:

its a scam bro..

Yeah and I got a truly laughable on right now.... OK the FB blues and while colors but not even the attempt to duplicate the logo.

Again while this now seems a more real thing... as others have said...you will NEVER get EMAIL from FB, Google, PP or anyone else like that, that will directly ask for personal info or a direct link. (easily spoofed though look like true address)

They if real will tell you to directly (manually typed) log in to your account to resolve any issue NOT an email link no matter how legit it might look vs this one I got that was again laughably BOGUS.
--