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hm

@videotron.ca

The "Infringement" letter

Can Teksavvy post a sample copy of the "Infringement" letter people are getting, please. Thanks.

I don't think I actually ever saw the actual letter yet.

NOTE to users here (if TSI doesn't post it):

If you have this letter and wish to post it (copy/paste from Email or similar) then please do. Remove your private info.

Please don't post a screen-shot, image, or Word Doc, if you don't know how to wipe the meta-data. It could give you away.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
No one has yet received such a letter yet. Voltage still hasn't got the names to send them to. At least not TekSavvy customers. Though I'm sure you might try the U.S. to see if anyone down there has a sample letter you can peep at, there have been cases down that a way allready.
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hm

@videotron.ca
I mean the Letter/Notice Teksavvy is sending people.

ZombieBanner

join:2012-11-14
Chatham, ON
reply to hm
Dear *******

We write to inform you that TekSavvy has received a court motion from Voltage Pictures LLC that may result in disclosure of your name and contact information. Voltage Pictures LLC (“Voltage”) is asking the court to order TekSavvy to provide the name and contact information of customers associated with IP addresses that Voltage asserts have engaged in copyright infringement. One of the IP addresses identified by Voltage Pictures LLC in this request was *IP Address*, used on *Date* *Time*, which we have determined to be associated with your account. The copyrighted material identified by Voltage was *Movie Title*. The following link leads to the “Notice of Motion” received from Voltage Pictures LLC indicating that Voltage will be asking the Federal Court of Canada for this order on December 17, 2012 in Toronto.

»www.teksavvy.com/Media/Default/C···tion.pdf

Voltage is seeking a court order requiring TekSavvy to disclose your name and contact information. This will allow Voltage to pursue claims against you. We, at TekSavvy, will not provide your information to Voltage unless we are required to do so by a court order and have insisted that Voltage give us the opportunity to provide you with this notice of their intention to seek a disclosure order.

At TekSavvy, we take pride in our dedication to our customers. We listen to our customers and try to respect their needs. We have always fought for our customers’ rights and we take their privacy seriously.

We believe that you have a right to:

1) Have your privacy safeguarded;
2) Be notified that a request for your personal information has been made by a third party; and
3) Have an opportunity to defend yourself when a claim is made against you.
At the same time, rights holders are entitled to enforce their rights under the Copyright Act. TekSavvy therefore encourages everyone to become familiar with their rights and obligations under copyright law. For more information please visit:

»www.teksavvy.com/en/why-teksavvy···n-canada

You should know that TekSavvy does not monitor our customers’ use of the Internet and has no involvement in collecting the IPs presented in this request by Voltage. We are also not in a position to speculate on the validity of the claims, nor contest the request for information.

Voltage Pictures LLC has required us to provide you the following notice:

“Until this matter is resolved, you are on notice to preserve any and all hard drives or other means of electronic storage associated with your above referenced IP address and to take no steps whatsoever to remove, erase, discard, conceal, destroy or delete from any means of electronic storage any evidence of piracy and/or other illegal downloading and distribution of Voltage Picture LLC’s intellectual property. In the event that it is determined, through computer forensic evidence or otherwise, that steps were taken to delete or in any way alter or destroy evidence of piracy activities, you are on notice that said actions will be brought to the court’s attention and further associated remedies will be sought against you.”

On or after December 17, 2012, TekSavvy may receive a court order requiring us to disclose your name and contact information. If that happens, we will notify you immediately. You may wish to seek independent legal advice in connection with Voltage’s motion that will be heard on December 17, 2012. In addition, should you at any time receive a legal demand letter alleging infringement or face a copyright infringement lawsuit, we strongly suggest that you seek independent legal advice. Unfortunately we cannot provide legal advice.

For a complete set of information on the documents filed with the court in the proceeding brought by Voltage that we have received please go to:

»www.teksavvy.com/en/why-teksavvy···ormation

Also please visit: The Government of Canada’s Balanced Copyright
»balancedcopyright.gc.ca/eic/site···ml#amend

Sincerely,
The TekSavvy Team


TSI Martin
Premium
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:33
What ZombieBanner See Profile put looks about right to me!


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to hm

In the event that it is determined, through computer forensic evidence or otherwise, that steps were taken to delete or in any way alter or destroy evidence of piracy activities, you are on notice that said actions will be brought to the court’s attention and further associated remedies will be sought against you.

^ I don't like that part either. ^

All in all, its still part of the scare the bejesuz out of you, all out extortion attempt by the voltagetrolls' manipulation of the legal system so as to compell you to catipulate and pay them the pirates booty, without actually going into ligitation. Hopefully our Canadian Justices can see through this evilness and send the troll packing, never to return and darken our screens again.

In other words the voltagetrolls are scurvy bastids!
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Twitter = Twizted
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creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2

1 recommendation

They would want you to delete their content anyways if they proved you were guilty of their crazy allegations.
Expand your moderator at work


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
reply to hm

Re: The "Infringement" letter

LMFAO at that "please don't delete the evidence" paragraph.....Seems like they will get mad at you if you do!
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
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reply to ZombieBanner
said by ZombieBanner:

Dear *******

We write to inform you that TekSavvy has received a court motion from Voltage Pictures LLC that may result in disclosure of your name and contact information. Voltage Pictures LLC (“Voltage”) is asking the court to order TekSavvy to provide the name and contact information of customers associated with IP addresses that Voltage asserts have engaged in copyright infringement. One of the IP addresses identified by Voltage Pictures LLC in this request was *IP Address*, used on *Date* *Time*, which we have determined to be associated with your account. The copyrighted material identified by Voltage was

SNIPPED - Too long to quote all of it.

Sincerely,
The TekSavvy Team

If you don't mind me asking, i'm curious what's going through your mind... worried? I won't have you say anything to incriminate yourself, that would be stupid but have you looked for a lawyer? If so what's the retainer?

Let us know what you can without giving too much

Tong

join:2012-12-11
r3t 38x
reply to ZombieBanner
Does Voltage has the legal power to put anyone on notice to do not format their Hard Drive? I thought only a police or authority can give someone a notice. I meant right now, even their motion is not approved.

What happens I just go out and throw out my HD and they probably will never find it.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
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said by Tong:

Does Voltage has the legal power to put anyone on notice to do not format their Hard Drive? I thought only a police or authority can give someone a notice. I meant right now, even their motion is not approved.

What happens I just go out and throw out my HD and they probably will never find it.

Go out, buy a SSD (upgrade) reinstall everything and tada!.. If only windows ever listened to "Please don't crash"...

Oops i clicked the wrong link in my email, got a virus and i decided to have "geek squad" ugprade my to what they said was blazing fast hard drive.. did you want to see? lol

On topic though, you have a point, they as far as i know do not have the power to put anyone on notice... That's like me putting you on notice at this point


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to ZombieBanner
said by ZombieBanner:

“Until this matter is resolved, you are on notice to preserve any and all hard drives or other means of electronic storage associated with your above referenced IP address and to take no steps whatsoever to remove, erase, discard, conceal, destroy or delete from any means of electronic storage any evidence of piracy and/or other illegal downloading and distribution of Voltage Picture LLC’s intellectual property. In the event that it is determined, through computer forensic evidence or otherwise, that steps were taken to delete or in any way alter or destroy evidence of piracy activities, you are on notice that said actions will be brought to the court’s attention and further associated remedies will be sought against you.”

Thanks for posting it, ZombieBanner.

The quote above is the part that concerns me.

The letter is going to teksavvy's accounts receivable (ie the person who pays the bills). People are bitching they didn't do it, but as we all know that leaves your spouse and your 2.5 kids.

In a landlord situation, that also leaves your tenants.

In a student residence, or a student Apt, that leaves you and your 6 buds.

I dunno about Ontario, but if my kids are involved and someone wants to look at my kids private info I'm not sure if something in Qc would help them out. I'll have to look into this.

So in effect, they *are not* stating an IP is a person, as some people are claiming here. They are stating the IP is an entire residence.

ZombieBanner

join:2012-11-14
Chatham, ON
reply to Tx
said by Tx:

If you don't mind me asking, i'm curious what's going through your mind... worried? I won't have you say anything to incriminate yourself, that would be stupid but have you looked for a lawyer? If so what's the retainer?

Let us know what you can without giving too much

I'm not worried, the movie they said I've never downloaded or even seen, it must be a false positive. I have a cousin that is a lawyer, and he advised since I haven't done anything, we will fight it and win.

I'm not worried.

If I get a letter, I will reply back that they must be mistaken, and I will see them in civil court. With computer forensic evidence saying that the file in question has never been on any of my 3 computes or NAS drive with affidavits. When the court settles, I will then counter sue for costs involved.

Even if the counter sue fails. I'm more then happy to pay the money to stand up for my rights, and at least be able to use my case as a precedent.

Now if I had actually downloaded the files... well then I might be worried a bit more.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
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said by ZombieBanner:

said by Tx:

If you don't mind me asking, i'm curious what's going through your mind... worried? I won't have you say anything to incriminate yourself, that would be stupid but have you looked for a lawyer? If so what's the retainer?

Let us know what you can without giving too much

I'm not worried, the movie they said I've never downloaded or even seen, it must be a false positive. I have a cousin that is a lawyer, and he advised since I haven't done anything, we will fight it and win.

I'm not worried.

If I get a letter, I will reply back that they must be mistaken, and I will see them in civil court. With computer forensic evidence saying that the file in question has never been on any of my 3 computes or NAS drive with affidavits. When the court settles, I will then counter sue for costs involved.

Even if the counter sue fails. I'm more then happy to pay the money to stand up for my rights, and at least be able to use my case as a precedent.

Now if I had actually downloaded the files... well then I might be worried a bit more.

Not saying i don't believe you but i of course have to say it as to avoid scrutiny with what im about to say.

If what you're saying is true, then you're the walking, talking prime example as to why this process is a sham. Case and point. Sadly you have to fight it in court to prove this and you're lucky enough to know someone in the family that's a lawyer.

Not everyone is so lucky


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to ZombieBanner
ZombieBanner, I'm assuming you're single. But, how would you feel if they wanted to rummage through your kids computers or your spouses computers? After-all this is what the TSI letter states, *ALL* devices associated with the IP.

If you get a chance, ask your lawyer relative about this one over Xmas beer.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
said by hm :

ZombieBanner, I'm assuming you're single. But, how would you feel if they wanted to rummage through your kids computers or your spouses computers? After-all this is what the TSI letter states, *ALL* devices associated with the IP.

If you get a chance, ask your lawyer relative about this one over Xmas beer.

All devices associated with that IP would be...in my case, my router?...feel free to examine the contents of the sleek, sexy Netgear WNR3500L that I have?

What I do over my personal network is my personal business...Not that I've received this notice but unless the police come knocking down the door they have no evidence....I don't understand how these processes get to where they are...stupid civil laws...

ZombieBanner

join:2012-11-14
Chatham, ON
reply to Tx
said by Tx:

Not saying i don't believe you but i of course have to say it as to avoid scrutiny with what im about to say.

If what you're saying is true, then you're the walking, talking prime example as to why this process is a sham. Case and point. Sadly you have to fight it in court to prove this and you're lucky enough to know someone in the family that's a lawyer.

Not everyone is so lucky

Trust me I take no offence, everyone is going to play the I'm innocent card. But in my case its true. My hands are not completely clean when it comes to everything but in this case they are.

said by hm :

ZombieBanner, I'm assuming you're single. But, how would you feel if they wanted to rummage through your kids computers or your spouses computers? After-all this is what the TSI letter states, *ALL* devices associated with the IP.

If you get a chance, ask your lawyer relative about this one over Xmas beer.

I am married, but if my wife would of downloaded this she would of told me, as I said above my hands aren't completely clean, and if I was guilty then I would probably settle out of court, as long as the damages were resonable.

Luckly my wife is away for work at the moment for the above time and date stamp, so unless my dog suddently decided to get really bad taste in movies I think I'm safe.

You can speed as much as you want, but if you get caught you pay the fine.

Thats escatly why if they said all devices, I would get an independent computer forensic statement, and avifidavid.
Yes this is going to cost me some money, but again I have a friend in the industry and would be at a resonable cost to prove my innocence and set a precedence for other people.

Tong

join:2012-12-11
r3t 38x
I wonder if they are going to try to get a judgement again your dog if it is only living being in your house when the "download" occurred. That would be funny


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
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said by Tong:

I wonder if they are going to try to get a judgement again your dog if it is only living being in your house when the "download" occurred. That would be funny

Let's not forget (though you may not of heard of it) some rich woman (i think from Toronto?) died and left her fortune to her dog... could be a good choice.

Tong

join:2012-12-11
r3t 38x
Yeah, I think I read somewhere in USA. With the same company (With the Hurt Locker case) they are trying to serve a person who is dead for years.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
yeah torrentfreak is where i read about this one


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

2 edits
reply to ZombieBanner
said by ZombieBanner:

Until this matter is resolved, you are on notice to preserve any and all hard drives or other means of electronic storage associated with your above referenced IP address and to take no steps whatsoever to remove, erase, discard, conceal, destroy or delete from any means of electronic storage any evidence of piracy and/or other illegal downloading and distribution of Voltage Picture intellectual property.

The devil is in the details.

No court order/search warrant issued to a specific IP/subscriber yet = Only a suggestion.

Hmmmmm......


Dr Facts

@gc.ca
Uninforceable and only a suggestion.

Yes and no. Let's say you have a hard drive full of copyright stuff and you delete it, there is some software that can still see it.

Now you can use some utilities that will re-write over sectors but even that looks suspicious, like they get your hard drive and they see that the day after you got your letter it was reformated.

Again, this isn't a criminal thing, they just need probabilities and that would make it look rather probable that you have something to hide.

However I doubt that it's going to get to that stage for anyone who gets a letter but then again Voltage seem pretty bull-headed, they may just end up running on rage and spite.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
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join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to elitefx
Just Keep COOL Folks! its just part of the SCARE THE BEJEBUS OUTA YOU tatic to compell you to pay up or else! Nothing more. Unless they take you through an actual ligitation proccess in a real world courtroom with a real world Justice who can hand down real world judgments.

These voltagetrolls are only out to shake you down for all they can get. Endof.

The "Or Else" part is when you challenge them to do so in an actual court procceeding to PROVE IT! Which of course will be costing you quite a bit so your decision is either pay them out of court as per their extortion letters OR pay potentially far more by going through the court system. These voltagetrolls know this, they're counting on it. Thats the scheme.

Like I said earlier, we can only hope our Canadian Justices can see through this slipery deception being waged by the likes of voltage and other copytrolls and put the big-kibosh on this kind of racket before they get swamped. Nip it in the bud so to speak, and set a grand precedent for this right here at home in Canada.

In the Uk they disbarred lawyers for pulling these shenanigans.

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Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

jetdog

join:2009-10-04
canada
reply to Tong
You are absolutely correct.

"In the event that it is determined, through computer forensic evidence or otherwise ... you are on notice that said actions will be brought to the court’s attention and further associated remedies will be sought against you."

This is absolutely an "I'll tell mommy" threat. They have no legal authority to force this of you at this point.

All they're saying is "If we (voltage) find out that you tried to delete stuff, then we're telling you that we'll tell the courts this if we ever find out."

So I see what they're trying to get people to think. Deleting this information knowing that the movie's existence on your hard drive could hurt your chances in court -- that the act of deleting it could potentially be considered "obstruction of justice."

(That's what I think they want you to feel...)

But I think I see a small problem with this stance: They're requesting that you keep information, and making a legal threat if you don't. And I see what they're trying to get people thinking by putting their mindset in that kind of defense.

But the issue I see with this is:

(A) You would have to call into question the integrity of Voltage's evidence (hearsay, potentially logged data, sources, etc)
(B) The court would have to get a warrant to cease your property -- THAT's when such a legal obligation could be made.
(C) You would still have to be claiming innocence all the while, intentionally (Which, by the way, is NOT easy, but let's assume you were godly enough at lying and had the stamina of stone cold serial killer bull, and you were actually that stupid...)
(D) If you didn't wipe the drive right, go to directly to (F).
(E) If you wiped your drive right, and the evidence still wasn't good enough, they would *still* be grasping for straws to try and prove that you had the file by fast-firing questions at you in court (and to your credit you're probably a GOD at dealing with lawyers if you got this far...). They'd then go at you enough to find actual proof, in a civil court -- which, you'd pretty never get this unlucky...
(F) Assuming that they weren't satisfied with proving that you infringed their copyright, they would then have to actually WANT to fuck you over, to prove intent to obstruct justice, to bringing about more criminal charges (You may even need a separate hearing for that, because I think this is a civil trial, not a criminal trial!)
(G) You are still within your legal rights to free up your hard drive for any reason, so the burden of proof on obstructing justice would be on them.
(H) And somehow the court would have to be willing to hear this farce of bullying crap to pin you on something that affects absolutely no person any further, for a $100-$5,000 infraction!

That's a LOOOONG list to want to fuck someone over, at $100+ an hour, for several thousand people, with absolutely no financial incentive for these copyright trolls to dent your record.

These laws were put in place to treat people fairly in financial transactions, not to ruin their chances of a life ever again. And not to tell them what they can and can't do with their computers in other avenues of their life. Personally, I'd be more than content to see this resolved honestly. You'd be there to straighten out a checkbook because someone feels their civil rights have been violated, in a time where people don't stop to ask whether they had something of value to begin with. Not because the world wants to screw you over or to see you break down in court. If you actually get called to a stand, just don't lie! Be honest. Be open! Tell them you're afraid! You're well within your legal rights to delete a file on your computer with that kind of intent. Your rights have not been halted all of a sudden because of a civil issue. (Because quite frankly, they're terrible movies -- they're not *worth* a purchase, hence why the bulk of people WOULD pirate them instead of giving legal tender for them -- and we should *ALL* more than certainly boycott anything they ever make again, on the basis that they're FUCKING assholes!)

Remember, Canada's on your side!

PS> I wasn't accused, but I'd LOVE to make a legal defense on the nature of their so-called "evidence", because as a Teksavvy customer, I feel that my rights have been violated too with this kind of empty-handed accusation on the internet!

There's an absolute PILE of information on the internet that calls into question the integrity of their claim, before handing out what could potentially be MY name and address on any other day. (Yes Teksavvy, I'm disappointed about this -- you are NOT being responsible for my privacy by admitting defeat and saying "YES" to an allegation that you haven't even SEEN YET!)

If you want a defense that should never even make its way PAST "Voltage vs John Doe" at the court on January 14th, 2013, start with THIS:

»wiki.theory.org/BitTorrent_Track···_Request

SPECIFICALLY, THIS:

Basic Tracker Announce Request
--------------------------------
ip
An optional parameter giving the IP (or dns name) which this peer is at. Generally used for the origin if it's on the same machine as the tracker; otherwise it's not normally needed.

Which can cause THIS:

»dmca.cs.washington.edu/

Supported by section 4.1 in a research paper published from the University of WASHINGTON, saying THIS:

»dmca.cs.washington.edu/dmca_hotsec08.pdf

On these grounds alone, I would call into question how EVERY SINGLE PERSON on their retarded list isn't being accused on the merits of hearsay alone, FROM ANY ONE OF 7 BILLION POTENTIAL ANONYMOUS LIARS ON THE INTERNET.

I would ask them specifically for the logged traffic, and would question them on how they are exempt from THAT colossal fuck-up above. Assuming they were smart enough to get THAT far, I would then question them how they still managed to partake in a peer swarm without violating the very crimes that they are accusing several thousand people of committing, and would ask for the traffic logs to double-check myself during an extended court recess!

PSPS> Tell your lawyers it's called a torrent "CHUNK". Not a "packet" (lol wtf?)

Welcome to the INTERNET, Voltage!

graniterock
Premium
join:2003-03-14
London, ON
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
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reply to TwiztedZero
said by TwiztedZero:

Just Keep COOL Folks! its just part of the SCARE THE BEJEBUS OUTA YOU tatic to compell you to pay up or else! Nothing more. Unless they take you through an actual ligitation proccess in a real world courtroom with a real world Justice who can hand down real world judgments.

I am curious to know who is going to pay for the forensic guy. I'm not caught up in this mess. Although if people are like me: I was counting all my old hard drives. I got 5. Not including the ones on actual computers (at least another 5) then there's all my recordable media DVD-Rs and the like. That's alot of sectors to read. That could easily cost thousands of dollars for a 3rd party to go through.

taraf

join:2011-05-07
Stittsville, ON

1 recommendation

It's a civil suit. Remember that. They are not threatening to bring criminal charges against anybody, and even if they were threatening to do it, they don't have the power to do it because they are a private entity. They would have to convince a law enforcement agency to lay charges for it to become a criminal matter, and I don't think that's very likely. The police have much better things to do with their time than chase after an individual who allegedly downloaded a movie.

That means that any threats about not formatting your hard drive are completely baseless, and if they want to perform a forensic analysis on your hard drive they have to pay for it. You do not have to give them any access to your computer or equipment, regardless of what they claim.

There is software which can detect and find files after you've done a format of the drive, but if you do a low level format writing zeroes to every sector, there's virtually no way for them to recover the information that's been lost without taking the hard drive apart and scanning it: the hard drive's firmware controls what goes through the SATA interface, and it's specifically designed to ignore any residual magnetic fields from previous write cycles and tell you what's there now. Even then, depending on how many times it's been written over it's a coin toss as to whether they'd get anything useful, and that kind of data recovery can run into the tens of thousands of dollars for a single hard drive. When the most they can get, by law, is $5000 out of you, they're not going to pay for it.

However, being a civil case it's worth remembering that the standard of proof is much lower. They don't have to prove beyond a shadow of any doubt that you have done what they accuse you, they only have to prove that the balance of evidence weighs against you. This means that if they have enough data about your activities just from logging what they've seen, they don't need to examine your hard drive to prove the case.

If you've received such a letter, then the best advice anybody can give you is to hire a lawyer (or go to legal aid if you can't afford a lawyer). Don't ignore it, because their behaviour in other countries indicates that they're more likely to file against you if you ignore the letter. Usually, in other countries, simply having a lawyer reply that you intend to challenge any allegations is enough to get them to drop the case and move on to the next victim. If it goes further, the case will lie on proving that an IP address translates to a person, which is something that's already been challenged in Canadian courts with decisions going both ways. With the lower standard of proof in civil cases, anybody with appropriate qualifications in computer networking should be able to cast enough doubt for the case to be dismissed.

lcb

join:2011-05-08
Waterloo, ON
This is an interesting talk that ties in with a lot of the advice on this particular thread.

»www.ted.com/talks/drew_curtis_ho···oll.html