| reply to JoelC707
Re: Future Proofing home networks said by JoelC707:Wow, I learned two new things in one post. There actually was a Cat 4 (makes sense on the explanation too), and that there was a 100Base-T4 specification. Never knew that existed. And for some reason, every time I think of Token Ring I think of 10Base-2 (the old coax network).
dont forget token ring on type 1 cable with hermaphrodite connectors, that was fun to cable. |
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| reply to TheMG
When I had to swap my Samsung GS3 at ATT it couldn't download the simple activation files on their wifi in the store, there was too many other devices eating the spectrum, BestBuy is just as bad. I try to wire all I can. |
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| reply to tschmidt
Future Proof can be tricky and costly:
-the average homeowner stays in residence on average: 7 years (according to National Association of Realtors)
So if you plan on staying more than that or want to "add" some kinda equity to future buyer that is net-centric, then I would recommend some easy-pull conduit system (spare fishtape).
Some make valid points that plenum and fiber are overkill (or even unnecessary), or that wifi will supplant, but not all houses are the same. Stone, steel, glass, foundations, and engineering are all limiting factors to wireless. Additional devices for repeating, power points, and needs should be factored. E.G. my house had two outlets in the room, with two others being switched. Adding powerstrips became ugly. (think of teen with laptop, wifi repeater, lamps, audio stuff, gaming stuff, chargers for phone, tablet, etc...).
I have an integrated AV system. There is so much left to expand that its a good platform for next person to build on (When I started the project, and put all the components in...I added a 400CD changer...2 months later the iPod came out...it collects dust...along with the LD player. All I use now is the UPS, receiver, xbox and PS3...) Might pull the other components and THX amp all the speakers.
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Splat |
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| reply to Pher9999
said by Pher9999:When I had to swap my Samsung GS3 at ATT it couldn't download the simple activation files on their wifi in the store, there was too many other devices eating the spectrum, BestBuy is just as bad. I try to wire all I can.
Problem is there are some devices that must use wireless such as ipods and ipads and smart phones. In this portable era wireless for other tablets and laptops is nice too. Wired is good for blu-ray players or stationary smart TVs and desktops that stay in one place so you can figure wires for those or additional APs . |
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 whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9 | reply to nunya
said by nunya:For residential use, I think wired networks don't have much of a future at all. Maybe for hardcore enthusiasts. For most people wireless will be plenty. Respectfully, I would have to disagree. I am in the city, but in a 'burb' type setting of single family homes with some apartment buildings nearby. I can see no less than 15 wireless networks at any time; with about 1/3 interfering. I have DirecTV receivers on internet. I am not going to attach a wireless AP to each one of those, especially considering the bandwidth they require.
Going by theory alone, there is only so many bits (you can call it bandwidth if you like) that can be carried on a radio signal with a given power level. This is based on laws of physics and can not be improved. Given these constraints, improved coding is one way to solve this, but will only get one so far. The more people go to wireless, the less 'bandwidth' available for others. If one wants increased data rates ('speeds'), its going to have to be 'wired'. |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | said by whizkid3:said by nunya:I think wired networks don't have much of a future at all. Respectfully, I would have to disagree. I think it's a matter of blending the two.
Keeping wired networks up to date when you have an outlet in every room is kind of intense. Also, a lot of devices are now wireless only, or pretty annoying to hook up:
- Laptops (Sofa, kitchen table, toilet, you name it, can't hook it up every time).
- Cellphones, Tablet PCs, they are only wireless.
What's left are desktop computers, Set-Top-Box (and variances of it) and network storage. Those are typically in fixed locations.
What I'm doing is running cable to key locations but I'm not going to bother getting a RJ45 port in every bedroom, just the office room. |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8
 ·Charter
 ·surpasshosting
 ·voip.ms
| reply to whizkid3
I wholeheartedly agree that the 2.4 GHz band is now just "junk". But as people move to 5 GHz and buy newer equipment with better "anti-crowding" algorithms, things will get better.
Remember, as wired data rates increase, wireless rates do as well, with an increasingly shorter lag period.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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 DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to tschmidt
Like any technology it depends on a lot of variables. If your in a very old house running cables might not be an option. If your in a busy area wireless might not be an option. Neither is better then the other overall it just depends on the variables for each use/person/application/etc. To that end there's no way to future proof more then maybe 2-3 years tops. You roll the dice every 2-3 years in hopes your stuff might make it another 2-3 years. At some point you're going to lose that gamble.
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes! |
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| reply to tschmidt
Ok, I have only skimmed though this thread and see a lot of posters saying wireless is the way to go. I can tell you with certainty that IT IS NOT the way to go.
Wireless is quickly becoming unreliable as more and more devices use it and hog up spectrum.
Wireless bandwidth is shared among all devices on the network. In this future when IPTV takes over this will be a serious problem to have more than a few streaming at the same time on a wireless network.
Wireless is a nice convenience for portable handheld devices like smartphones and tablets. Desktops, laptops, TVs, network media players, etc should all be on a fast wired network.
Wireless should be thought of as a extra convenience, not a primary connection.
IMO I would wire with CAT5e STP (Shielded Twisted Pair) and install a nice gigabit switch in your network closet.
Remember with STP that the shield needs to be grounded and special metal covered ends need to be used to make the connection. Most commercial quality gigabit switches support the grounding of STP.
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CompTIA Network+ Certified |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 Reviews:
·Charter
·surpasshosting
·voip.ms
| Tell that to 3 Roku's (all streaming HD), 3 laptops, a WII, an Xbox 360, 1 MythTV frontend, and 3 smart phones.
They are all very happy on wireless. I have wired connections available but don't even bother except on stationary PCs.
Excepting OTA (and I also stream OTA on my LAN!), I'm all IPTV. Guess what? It's happening now - and working just fine.
STP in a residence? Big old waste of time, effort and money.
There will be a place for wired networks for the foreseeable future, but they are going to eventually disappear in residential settings. I already see the writing on the walls. I practically have to twists peoples wrists any more to get any ethernet jacks or phone jacks installed. All they are concerned about is coax. Which is fine, because even if wireless wouldn't cut the mustard, MoCA will. MoCA is awesome.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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| said by nunya:Tell that to 3 Roku's (all streaming HD), 3 laptops, a WII, an Xbox 360, 1 MythTV frontend, and 3 smart phones.
They are all very happy on wireless. I have wired connections available but don't even bother except on stationary PCs.
Excepting OTA (and I also stream OTA on my LAN!), I'm all IPTV. Guess what? It's happening now - and working just fine.
You're obviously not around neighbors hogging spectrum.
If you're the only one in range wireless works great, but a lot of people have neighbors and smart meters competing for the 2.4ghz spectrum.
Once place I lived I was forced to use channel 13 just for my wifi network to work at all.
Also, I transfer huge files between my server, laptop, and desktop all the time and that is done much faster over wired gigabit than even 300mbps wifi.
Ya, STP is probably overkill for a single family home.
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CompTIA Network+ Certified |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to nunya
said by nunya:Tell that to 3 Roku's (all streaming HD), 3 laptops, a WII, an Xbox 360, 1 MythTV frontend, and 3 smart phones.
They are all very happy on wireless. I have wired connections available but don't even bother except on stationary PCs.
Excepting OTA (and I also stream OTA on my LAN!), I'm all IPTV. Guess what? It's happening now - and working just fine.
STP in a residence? Big old waste of time, effort and money.
There will be a place for wired networks for the foreseeable future, but they are going to eventually disappear in residential settings. I already see the writing on the walls. I practically have to twists peoples wrists any more to get any ethernet jacks or phone jacks installed. All they are concerned about is coax. Which is fine, because even if wireless wouldn't cut the mustard, MoCA will. MoCA is awesome.
I detect some of what we see around here between wired and wireless telco and it's related functions. Wired requires a person and here Verizon is union and Verizon Wireless employees are not. Wireless does not require a human (Verizon Home Connect) so they are cut out. Naturally the human is going to trash wireless to protect their own job. Some of which I see in this thread. |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 | reply to TheTechGuru
I see anywhere from 10-13 available networks on my laptop right now. |
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TheSMJ
join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI | I can see 20+ wireless networks where I live (an apartment). If I'm more than 30 feet away from the WAP, I'll be lucky if my phone can even stay connected, let alone pass data though.
Wireless is great for devices which are always on the move (laptops, phones, etc), but when streaming lots of data far from the WAP, you're better off with a wired connection whenever possible. |
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| reply to tschmidt
Ok, maybe wireless works decently when in the presence of only other wireless networks as they are designed to work around each other.
Many of us have more than others wifi clogging up our 2.4ghz band around us. Like SmartMeter's, Cordless Phones, Fixed Wireless ISP's, room to room Audio/Video transmitters, certain analog wireless security cameras (X10).
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CompTIA Network+ Certified |
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 Killa200Premium
join:2005-12-02
Southeast TN
·Charter
| said by TheTechGuru:Ok, maybe wireless works decently when in the presence of only other wireless networks as they are designed to work around each other.
Many of us have more than others wifi clogging up our 2.4ghz band around us. Like SmartMeter's, Cordless Phones, Fixed Wireless ISP's, room to room Audio/Video transmitters, certain analog wireless security cameras (X10).
Microwaves, certain car reverse cameras, bluetooth, zigbee, list goes on..... |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | reply to tschmidt
I wonder, why haven't we discussed Ethernet Over Power?
They're a good alternative to WIFI or having to run wires through the walls.
They don't beat wired LAN, but they could certainly beat WIFI especially if the WIFI frequency is overcrowded. |
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whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9
1 edit | said by alkizmo:I wonder, why haven't we discussed Ethernet Over Power? Because ... it sucks? |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | said by whizkid3:said by alkizmo:I wonder, why haven't we discussed Ethernet Over Power? Because it sucks? Okay.
I never tried it myself since I have no issue with WiFi or running Cat6 in other rooms.
However I did read a lot of good stuff about it on Amazon reviews (hundreds of reviews, with 4+ stars average).
»www.amazon.com/Livewire-Powerlin···er+power |
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JoelC707Premium
join:2002-07-09
West Point, GA
kudos:5 | IIRC, there was something about it not being able to cross to the other leg, or i it did, the quality was greatly diminished. I may also be remembering an early version and this has since been fixed. I think the main reason why EoP never really took off is that MoCA came around. When you consider that every major room is likely to have some kind of coax drop, it makes sense to use that. Sure it doesn't have the flexibility of using theoretically any outlet in the house but generally all you need to do is get in the room, from there you can run an ethernet drop where you need to go. |
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