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donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

Oshawa loses Camaro production

It is going to Michigan. Right to Work laws hurting us already?

»www.thestar.com/business/article···oduction



corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC

Not just Right to Work, but it certainly doesn't help us.

If I recall correctly, UAW was also willing to take greater concessions than CAW was during the last round of talks.



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to donoreo

I recall that as well. They are going to go where it is cheaper.



Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to donoreo

GM should have died a few years back, and the CAW sat on its collective bargaining union asses during the 80's and 90's when the big three quietly sold off various parts plants to other companies which intern systematically closed them and reopened in Mexico the USA or elsewhere. Workers at GM, Ford and that other one literally have been living in a pleasant little economic bubble for decades.

Live sucks but they managed to live a good deal higher and do so for years longer at the expense of other less important union brothers.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to donoreo

said by donoreo:

It is going to Michigan. Right to Work laws hurting us already?

»www.thestar.com/business/article···oduction

already??

this has been going on the past decade.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to corster

said by corster:

Not just Right to Work, but it certainly doesn't help us.

If I recall correctly, UAW was also willing to take greater concessions than CAW was during the last round of talks.

1 word, Petrodollar....CAW can't claim its "cheaper" to manufacture in Canada anymore...why?....Because $1 US = $0.98 CDN...not $0.60...or even .70....but basically our dollar is worth the same as the US...and since the UAW has taken concession on things like the employee benefit/pension plan in the US, it is now cheaper to manufacture there, vs here....

Stupid CAW....


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to donoreo

One can't help but think of how Windsor and Oshawa have continuously lost GM lines all the while St. Catharines has gained them to the point of now being GM's largest Canadian centre.

Funny how that goes, and makes me laugh ever so slightly seeing as how the CAW would screw over St. Cats to make Windsor and/or Oshawa happy. Full circle indeed.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to donoreo

I read that story this morning, and was wondering how long it was going to take the Union bashers to come out.

Not long I see. Beat up the front line worker while the execs continue to reap the huge paycheques and benefits.

"Free Enterprise" 101.

And don't worry about "Right to work" a certain blue striped provincial leader will fix that, we'll all be working for less then minimum wage soon.



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

said by elwoodblues:

I read that story this morning, and was wondering how long it was going to take the Union bashers to come out.

Not long I see. Beat up the front line worker while the execs continue to reap the huge paycheques and benefits.

"Free Enterprise" 101.

This is more of a case on one union beating another.
--
The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.


Markie
Still Living Free

join:2009-07-11
Canada
reply to donoreo

The Camaro is the only rear-wheel drive vehicle built at Oshawa.

Although the flexible line in Oshawa can accommodate both front and rear wheel drive assembly, the move will consolidate rear wheel production in Lansing, where the Cadillac CTS and ATS are also made, the company said.

This is no small thing, it keeps the production lines consistent. Oshawa will get another front drive platform, whether it employes the 2,000 currently building the Camaro is another question. Sorry Kenny, when you threw the electro motive workers under the train with an eye to looking tough with the big 3, did you think they really gave 2 shits?
--
»libertarian.on.ca/


horsey

@eastlink.ca
reply to donoreo

said by donoreo:

said by elwoodblues:

I read that story this morning, and was wondering how long it was going to take the Union bashers to come out.

Not long I see. Beat up the front line worker while the execs continue to reap the huge paycheques and benefits.

"Free Enterprise" 101.

This is more of a case on one union beating another.

NO that is not what he said.
Sorry i cant talk more but I am busy organizing the poor third world workers.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:
I read that story this morning, and was wondering how long it was going to take the Union bashers to come out.

Not long I see. Beat up the front line worker while the execs continue to reap the huge paycheques and benefits.

"Free Enterprise" 101.
that's weird, because there isn't any union bashing in here.

quote:
And don't worry about "Right to work" a certain blue striped provincial leader will fix that, we'll all be working for less then minimum wage soon.

a couple things...for one, are the workers at the Michigan plant making minimum wage??...no??...of course not...secondly, the very thing you complain about, is partly why these plants are here to begin with...when these plants were opened, do you think the US workers were screaming about "Canadians working minimum wage jobs assembling cars"?...of course not...that is how ridiculous your nonsensical rant is.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


vue666
I love Lanny Barbie
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

1 edit

On CTV News they are reporting GM wanted to centralize rear wheel production and the jobs in Ontario will be replaced with a fwd platform...

Maybe with all those fines in the USA, Toyota will move some jobs into Ontario to fill the void... LOL

»life.nationalpost.com/2012/12/19···-defect/



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

I don't see GM manufacturing Toyota vehicles at their plant in Oshawa anytime soon.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

i don't think he meant that.

but Subaru was contracted to build Camrys for Toyota up until fairly recently...Subaru's plant in Indiana had capacity and does a very good job at auto assembly and the facility itself is also a carbon neutral plant (or something like that)...now that their (Toyota) Mississippi plant is open, all their production is back in house...interesting fact (considering these types of stories always bring up the "foreign vs domestic" debates, the only vehicles Toyota sells that are not made in Canada or the USA are the Prius and the Yaris...as well, it likely won't be long before Prius are made here too (Yaris don't sell enough to bother)...so, buying a Toyota pretty much is buying a domestic vehicle.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


cog_biz_user
i ruin threads apparently

join:2011-04-19
Hamilton, ON

said by dirtyjeffer:

so, buying a Toyota pretty much is buying a domestic vehicle.

aren't they still building toyotas in cambridge?


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

quote:
And don't worry about "Right to work" a certain blue striped provincial leader will fix that, we'll all be working for less then minimum wage soon.

a couple things...for one, are the workers at the Michigan plant making minimum wage??...no??...of course not..

Not much more, $14/hr for "new hires".

»www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/busin···all&_r=0
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


vue666
I love Lanny Barbie
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

i don't think he meant that.

but Subaru was contracted to build Camrys for Toyota up until fairly recently...Subaru's plant in Indiana had capacity and does a very good job at auto assembly and the facility itself is also a carbon neutral plant (or something like that)...now that their (Toyota) Mississippi plant is open, all their production is back in house...interesting fact (considering these types of stories always bring up the "foreign vs domestic" debates, the only vehicles Toyota sells that are not made in Canada or the USA are the Prius and the Yaris...as well, it likely won't be long before Prius are made here too (Yaris don't sell enough to bother)...so, buying a Toyota pretty much is buying a domestic vehicle.

I thought Toyota was now considered to be domestic and one of the reasons they were allowed to race in NASCAR...

Toyota and GM used to run New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI) which was a plant that built GMs and Toyotas...


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to cog_biz_user

said by cog_biz_user:

said by dirtyjeffer:

so, buying a Toyota pretty much is buying a domestic vehicle.

aren't they still building toyotas in cambridge?

yes, and Woodstock.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

said by dirtyjeffer:

quote:
And don't worry about "Right to work" a certain blue striped provincial leader will fix that, we'll all be working for less then minimum wage soon.

a couple things...for one, are the workers at the Michigan plant making minimum wage??...no??...of course not..

Not much more, $14/hr for "new hires".

»www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/busin···all&_r=0

hmmm...so, you post a news article that is about a Chrysler plant (when we are talking about a GM plant here), that's over a year old, and remind me what minimum wage is in Michigan??...it's $7.40/hr (i'll save you having to look it up).

and if you read your article, you would see this:

“Everybody is appreciative of a job and glad to be working,” said Derrick Chatman, who makes $14.65 an hour putting tires on Jeeps after being laid off at Home Depot, working odd construction jobs and collecting unemployment.

Last year, Chrysler was flooded with inquiries about the jobs here. It froze the list after receiving 10,000 applications.


so, everyone is appreciative of the work and glad they aren't unemployed...this guy puts tires on Jeeps...nah, you're probably right...lets pay high school dropouts $60k/year like we were doing.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

Toyota and GM used to run New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI) which was a plant that built GMs and Toyotas...

yes, in California...that plant is now where Teslas are made...when GM ditched Pontiac (which i thought was actually one of their better brands of late) they no longer had a use, as the Vibe was a Pontiac...Toyota didn't need the plant all on their own, so it was closed and sold.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


vue666
I love Lanny Barbie
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

The Chevy Nova of the 1980's or 1990's was based on the Toyota Corolla...



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to dirtyjeffer

This is about an UAW plant and the two tier wage system they imposed on their members.



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

so, everyone is appreciative of the work and glad they aren't unemployed...this guy puts tires on Jeeps...nah, you're probably right...lets pay high school dropouts $60k/year like we were doing.

They may start out at around $14/hr, but they will get to the regular UAW wage after a few years of service.

And whats wrong with a high school dropout making $60k/yr if they're capable of doing so? What's an appropriate wage for a high school dropout?

I'll tell you one thing, I went back to school for a post-secondary education this year and from what I'm seeing, the piece of paper that I'm going to be awarded with will only have value because it will help open doors. I'm not learning much at all. So based on that experience and the fact that I'm not really learning anything new (and I'm an honours student), should I make more than $60k/yr simply because I have a piece of paper?
--
Tom


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

said by TLS2000:

said by dirtyjeffer:

so, everyone is appreciative of the work and glad they aren't unemployed...this guy puts tires on Jeeps...nah, you're probably right...lets pay high school dropouts $60k/year like we were doing.

They may start out at around $14/hr, but they will get to the regular UAW wage after a few years of service.

And whats wrong with a high school dropout making $60k/yr if they're capable of doing so? What's an appropriate wage for a high school dropout?

I'll tell you one thing, I went back to school for a post-secondary education this year and from what I'm seeing, the piece of paper that I'm going to be awarded with will only have value because it will help open doors. I'm not learning much at all. So based on that experience and the fact that I'm not really learning anything new (and I'm an honours student), should I make more than $60k/yr simply because I have a piece of paper?

That's been the unwritten social contract for the last couple generations, yes.
--
~ Project Hope ~


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..

said by EUS:

said by TLS2000:

said by dirtyjeffer:

so, everyone is appreciative of the work and glad they aren't unemployed...this guy puts tires on Jeeps...nah, you're probably right...lets pay high school dropouts $60k/year like we were doing.

They may start out at around $14/hr, but they will get to the regular UAW wage after a few years of service.

And whats wrong with a high school dropout making $60k/yr if they're capable of doing so? What's an appropriate wage for a high school dropout?

I'll tell you one thing, I went back to school for a post-secondary education this year and from what I'm seeing, the piece of paper that I'm going to be awarded with will only have value because it will help open doors. I'm not learning much at all. So based on that experience and the fact that I'm not really learning anything new (and I'm an honours student), should I make more than $60k/yr simply because I have a piece of paper?

That's been the unwritten social contract for the last couple generations, yes.

^^^

What he said.

People with papers aren't any smarter than people without, they simple are more worthy of making more cash, at least according to society.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to TLS2000

Where are you getong 60k on a $14/hr wage, at best it works out to 28k. IIRC they will never reach parity with the older workers.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

This is about an UAW plant and the two tier wage system they imposed on their members.

ok...your article was about a Chrysler plant (when our discussion was about a GM plant, but ok, still cars...i'll let it slide.

your article was also over a year old...whatever, i'm getting used to that from you...i'll let it slide.

your constant moaning about "minimum wage jobs" gets tiring, when no one is saying they should be making minimum wage, and these workers (even with the 2 tier wage structure) are still making almost double the minimum wage rate in Michigan.

is $14/hr a lot of money??..no, but it's a lot more than the $8/hr they would make at Subway or McDonalds, both of which are likely "harder" jobs than working at Chrysler (albeit, working on the line can be pretty boring.

hey, if you don't want to make $8/hr or $14/hr, invest in yourself, learn a trade or get a degree and put some effort by investing in yourself...education and experience will help open doors and qualify you for positions, make you more valuable to an employer and in turn, likely bring you more income.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to TLS2000

said by TLS2000:

And whats wrong with a high school dropout making $60k/yr if they're capable of doing so? What's an appropriate wage for a high school dropout?

whatever the market will bear...perhaps high school dropouts, through the demands of their unions, could demand $60k/year (and much more in many cases) in the past...but those days no longer exist.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by dirtyjeffer:

whatever the market will bear...perhaps high school dropouts, through the demands of their unions, could demand $60k/year (and much more in many cases) in the past...but those days no longer exist.

It's not that simple as it's becoming more and more common for people who have a piece of paper hanging on their wall not to be able to demand $60K/year for a job, either.

There are many fields of work where real-world experience and who you know are far more important as far as salary goes than walking in with a degree and expecting to take over the world.