Topic 'Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob' in forum 'Verizon Fiber Optics' - dslreports.com

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Wed, 19 Dec 2012 18:34:58 EDT

vz tech 2 posted : sorry I miss read the statement retracted and if it worked prior then it should work afterwards and that is on VZ dime. Call back in and get a tech back out it should be a easy fix, and you should not have to do it, you can but you don't have too ;)

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Wed, 19 Dec 2012 10:56:21 EDT

hscottm posted : thanks everyone for the support (and sorry for the convoluted story - I started worrying at work after I had already left home).

turns out the vz tech had called me yesterday to say she was on her way and I texted her and she came back this am.

everything seems to work fine now - although it seems our multi-base cordless handset system has extra noise on dial tone but ok during calls. I guess we need to get new ones.

last thing I am wondering - is there any reason I should want to swap out that ancient protection block?

again - thanks everyone for the support.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:26:40 EDT

More Fiber posted : Yes, your alarm is installed incorrectly.

Do you have an RJ31X jack? That silver cable looks like it might run directly to the alarm panel. The blue/white pair from the ONT should be connected to the telco side of the RJ31X jack. Everything else should be connected to the customer side of the RJ31X.

You have enough of a "mess" there (especially with the alarm) that you need to get VZ out to fix it properly.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:17:25 EDT

hscottm posted : re: mess o'wires.. I cant tell you where each one of them goes, but these are the wires that go to phone drops on the first floor of the house and basement. some may actually be going up to the second floor, but they must be internal wires since all of the ones I know about upstairs come in from the outside (via the NID as I said above).

I just checked and my NID has a small padlock on the customer side.

is it just me or is the alarm now installed incorrectly too? I thought the special RJ connector it uses is "first in line"? looks like its just in parallel with everything else at the bottom of the block now.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:00:52 EDT

More Fiber posted : Sorry, I thought you said the connection from the NID was working and the connections from the protector block were not. Duh, I should have read the title of your post. :o

You're going to need access to the NID. It should not be locked. There are two sections to the NID. The customer portion should be secured by a simple screw, while the telco portion requires a special tool. You should be able to open the customer portion with a standard flat blade screwdriver.

There's a mess of wires coming off the top of that protector block. Do you know where they go?
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:29:18 EDT

hscottm posted : guys - thanks for help. I have things partially working but am having dial tone problems..

inside block photo is here (sorry its fuzzy but this is a confined space above a drop ceiling and its tough to get the phone to focus in the dark):

»s1.postimage.org/688grmmbz/photo.jpg

but my outside NID is locked so I cant comment on what it looks like in there.

photo notes:
my cat5 wire is coming up from bottom right of photo - its the white/blue and light blue wires. it goes from the ONT to the block, it does NOT go out to the NID.

I think I did what you recommended, and connected the wire coming from the NID directly to the protector block (its the one coming from the left, with yellow and black wrapped around and green/red also connected to the block).

the third wire coming in is for our alarm. it has white and orange connected (it also had red button splices that are since cut). this looks wrong to me, because I think my alarm has to be first in line (ie ONT wire should be spliced to this)

all of the inside house wire is attached at the top of the photo. all of those phones work and sound fine.

for the upstairs phones (through NID) I can get dial tone, but it has a fair bit of noise on it - kinda like a low frequency machine gun. less static during a call.

any suggestions on getting rid of the noise (I know other than calling vz which I will likely do regardless at this point).

oh, and I forgot to say several times above, thanks!

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:12:55 EDT

More Fiber posted : It's difficult to give to exact instructions since you haven't described the IW at the NID or the protector block.

Coming from the ONT to the NID, you should have a cat5 cable with the blue/white pair connected to your inside wire that goes to the downstairs phones.

You need to extend that connection using the 2 of the 4 wires running to the protector block. Connect the red and green wires from the 4 conductor cable inside the NID to the blue/white pair coming from the ONT along with the existing pair to the rest of the house.

At the protector block, you should connect the red and green wires coming from the NID to the IW that was formerly connected to the protector block.

As I said before, you should not have any connections to the NID or the protector block.

If this isn't clear, please post pics of the wiring in the NID and the wiring at the protector block.

If you're not comfortable with these instructions, then I suggest you get VZ back out to finish the job.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:35:55 EDT

hscottm posted : btw, I finally found a photo of my protector block (very similar). its an old Western Electric model. does this change anything?

»www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-old-WES···2653051b

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:24:38 EDT

hscottm posted :

said by More Fiber:

Is there any wire running from the NID to protector block?

If so, just connect that wire to the inside wire (IW) at the NID and at the protector block. The IW should not be connected to either the NID or the protector block.

If there is no wire running from the NID to the protector block you will have to run some. One other option is if there is a phone outlet that has pairs from both the protector block and the NID. You could connect the pairs together there.

thanks for reply.

other than being "cut" by the tech this morning, there is still a 4-wire running from the outside NID through the wall next to the block. I assume this used to feed the whole house inside.

which one is the inside wire (IW)? the one coming from the new Fios ONT?

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:23:08 EDT

kes601 posted : OP states phones upstairs and downstairs worked prior to install.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:22:53 EDT

hscottm posted :

said by vz tech 2:

That is debatable when you say they did not finish the install, as a courtesy a tech would investigate it further but as he said the jacks did not work up stairs prior to the fios install,

sorry if there was confusion above but the jacks very much did work upstairs this morning - its where our answering machine and main cordless phone base station is installed!

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:17:20 EDT

vz tech 2 posted : That is debatable when you say they did not finish the install, as a courtesy a tech would investigate it further but as he said the jacks did not work up stairs prior to the fios install, so you can not expect it to work when he leaves for free. if it not a quick swing of the wire Tand M maybe in the subs future as the tech will surely get a repeat

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:54:05 EDT

kes601 posted : Call Vz, as More Fiber said, they didn't finish install properly.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:53:55 EDT

More Fiber posted : Is there any wire running from the NID to protector block?

If so, just connect that wire to the inside wire (IW) at the NID and at the protector block. The IW should not be connected to either the NID or the protector block.

If there is no wire running from the NID to the protector block you will have to run some. One other option is if there is a phone outlet that has pairs from both the protector block and the NID. You could connect the pairs together there.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:44:45 EDT

hscottm posted : How would I daisy chain?

Btw got home and inspected. Looks like they just cut the wire coming in from the NID to the protector block, and ran the cat5 from the ONT to the block. That's why all of the inside wires are ok, as suspected

All of the other phones In the house including importantly our cordless base station/answering machine ( in the master bedroom where we want it) are upstairs. And all of those lines split off from the outside NID box.

So how can I get those lines reconnected?

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:01:48 EDT

Hooper posted : An easier solution may just be to get a 4 handset or whatever phone system from Costco or Amazon. Some of them now even allow you to hook up your mobile via Bluetooth to make/receive calls. Another advantage is you can put it anywhere there is an outlet vs just near a jack.

Verizon would likely charge new outlet install fees to connect the lines upstairs or run a new wire or they will waive the fee. You never really know. My house has all sorts of dead phone wire running through it. I even found some run outside the house!

Re: [FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID prob

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:08:37 EDT

More Fiber posted : There needs to be a connection from the ONT to both the NID and the downstairs protector block (assuming they weren't previously connected together). This connection can be daisy-chained, or individual cables can be run from the ONT.

You should call VZ to come back and fix it since they did not complete the installation.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

[FiOS Phone] FIOS Install but upstairs lines dead - NID problem?

Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:53:49 EDT

hscottm posted : I had a great and efficient FIOS (15/5 + Phone) install today with a nice tech. Internet great. She checked the phone lines in the basement for dial tone before leaving and we assumed everything was fine. But I just discovered a hitch.

Before the install, we had DSL and phone. Our downstairs phone (and DSL) connected directly to the ancient horseshoe/transformer metal loop attached to our basement ceiling joists (sorry, but I cannot find a picture online and forget what its called). Our upstairs phone lines hop through the outside NID box. I am assuming given the wiring that previous owners at one time had a second line for the upstairs phone lines.

Post-install, only the downstairs phones work (I didnt have time to fully investigate before coming to work but I guess because they are wired directly onto the horseshoe and so is the FIOS phone line connector from the ONT). Our security alarm is also attached to this block.

I am wondering if we have lost the ability to get dial tone for those upstairs phones because perhaps that outside NID now has no power/etc with the switch to FIOS? - what should I be checking for to make this work? Is the outside old NID dead now or is it likely she just loosened a wire for those back to the NID?

If I know the NID is dead, that answers the question because there's no way to get around it short of running a whole new line.

thanks