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elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

And the Thieving continues............

Per the CRTC's latest interim wholesale rates for aggregated TPIA's, the wholesale rate is $22.69 for 150 Mbps downstream / 10 Mbps upstream.

Sure makes complete idiots out of the smucks paying Rogers $122.99 monthly...........might as well just throw your cash out the car window.

»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2012/2012-706.htm

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by elitefx:

Per the CRTC's latest interim wholesale rates for aggregated TPIA's, the wholesale rate is $22.69 for 150 Mbps downstream / 10 Mbps upstream.

That's only for the profile, and doesn't account for capacity. The wholesale capacity rates are where the real thieving is.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by bt:

That's only for the profile, and doesn't account for capacity. The wholesale capacity rates are where the real thieving is.

Amen to that!
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to bt
Out of curiosity how much does Rogers charge for capacity for the 150/10 tier and how does that compare with the lower tiers?

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
Capacity is the same rate across all tiers - $1,251/100Mbps for Rogers.

plebel
Premium
join:2011-01-27
Ottawa, ON
For the sake of comparison, SkyNet Canada has just announced $599.95/1Gbps for commercial backhaul in the Canadian ISP forum on this site.

»SkyNet Canada-Commercial Optical Network

At more than 20 times that rate, Rogers' pricing is way out of line. No wonder the independent ISP's are fighting those tariffs at the CRTC.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by plebel:

At more than 20 times that rate, Rogers' pricing is way out of line.

The really scary part is that Rogers is the 2nd cheapest. MTS is at $281, but has a * next to that noting that they use a different costing structure.

The next cheapest after Rogers is Videotron at $1,890. Cogeco is the highest at $2,695.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

3 edits
reply to bt
said by bt:

Capacity is the same rate across all tiers - $1,251/100Mbps for Rogers.

And this is where us "old school" users get lost.

What is $1,251/100Mbps?

What does it mean? What does it do? And what is a 1gbps link? A link to what?

Couldn't find a suitable answer on Google........Thanks

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
$1,251 for a 100Mbps connection between the Rogers network and the TPIA ISP's network. A 1Gbps link is the same thing, just faster.

So while Rogers charges $22.69 for 150Mbps between the POI and the user, they charge $1,251 for 100Mbps between the POI and the TPIA ISP.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by bt:

$1,251 for a 100Mbps connection between the Rogers network and the TPIA ISP's network. A 1Gbps link is the same thing, just faster.

So while Rogers charges $22.69 for 150Mbps between the POI and the user, they charge $1,251 for 100Mbps between the POI and the TPIA ISP.

For those of us who know nothing about this stuff, what would be a reasonable rate for Rogers and other big players to charge for a 100mbps link?


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

4 edits
reply to elitefx
I'd like to know where Rogers gets their internet from. How much do they pay for it?

Is there a number 1 supplier of internet in North America that sells to Rogers, Shaw, Cogeco etc? If Rogers has created their own Internet, how much do they pay to connect to the worldwide web for each POI?

Basically, how does this whole Internet distribution thing work? We all know about local nodes, POIs etc but what about the big worldwide picture?

Where does the Internet come from? How does the distribution work? Who's running the show? Somebody must be in charge. Who sets the worldwide rates? Who decides what costs what?

Also, what about network capacity. How much does Rogers have? What do they pay per GB? How is network capacity determined?

Why don't the TPIAs just buy their internet from the same place Rogers does and just pay Rogers a small fee to use their lines to deliver it?

We've all heard about countries, during civil unrest, shutting off the Internet. Could this ever happen in Canada? Where is the master switch in Canada? Who controls it?

Inquiring minds want to know.....Thanks


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to yyzlhr
said by yyzlhr:

For those of us who know nothing about this stuff, what would be a reasonable rate for Rogers and other big players to charge for a 100mbps link?

Whatever the market would bare assuming a competitive market. Since the market is not at all competitive then its whatever the regulators believe may be fair rates assuming the regulators are not political cronies etc.

In a communist country the state determines the rates
In a socialistic country the state determines the rates
In Canada its the state + the duopoly that determines the rate.
In a Capitalistic county the market determines the rate assuming that its a true capitalistic environment.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to elitefx
said by elitefx:

Why don't the TPIAs just buy their internet from the same place Rogers does and just pay Rogers a small fee to use their lines to deliver it?

That's what this fee is. Those costs from Rogers only cover getting a connection between the user and their TPIA ISP. The cost of actually getting that user online is additional, and doesn't go to Rogers.

file

join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB

1 recommendation

reply to elitefx
I'll talk a bit about the internet, peering, costs, etc...

Rogers doesn't get their "internet" from one place. They have agreements in place with other ISPs that allows traffic to flow between them. The cost is on a per-agreement basis. Some may be free if it's beneficial to both parties, some may cost a flat rate, some pay cost per amount of traffic, some may simply require the party with the prevailing amount of traffic to pay more. It depends. Nobody sets these rates except the companies involved. Some may be limited to traffic destined to/from that ISP only, or the scope may even go further to other ISPs.

There is no number 1 supplier of internet. There are large ISPs that have a large amount of traffic though, Level3 and Cogent being two. As an ISP you still have to ensure that the agreements you have in place allow you to get to all the other networks even indirectly.

What is the internet though? It's a large worldwide computer network made up of different ISPs and networks peered together.

Let's look at costs for a TPIA next!

They have to pay the cable company (in this case Rogers) a fee to have the user connect to the POI.

They have to pay the cable company a fee to have a connection from the Rogers network to the ISPs own network.

They have to pay potentially multiple other ISPs to carry the traffic to the rest of the world.

The first two costs are set by the CRTC and not something the TPIA provider can change, besides being involved in efforts to elicit changes.

The last cost is something they *can* control with negotiating their agreements.

* There are also other costs involved for the equipment, maintenance, etc.

Epichappy

join:2012-05-14
Kitchener, ON

1 recommendation

reply to elitefx
"I'd like to know where Rogers gets their internet from. How much do they pay for it?"

And I just realized someone else pretty much answered this much more concisely.................. So, only read on if you want to know a bit more about peering.

Okay, you first need to understand how the internet works and what it is.

The internet is a means of connecting two computers via a protocol, typically TCP or UDP. Think of this as a way of sending computer language(byte code).

So, Rogers built a network... by physically running EXPENSIVE fiber optic cable across Ontario. Now, rogers then worked out peering agreements with other network providers, like Shaw, cogeco, Comcast and my favorite ISP NTT docomo(don't ask).

So, then rogers sells the ability to sit as an endpoint on their network to people who live in areas they serve... bell also has built a fiber network in an attempt to compete(took them long enough YEASH).

Alright, so where are the websites? they are also computers which usually run linux, and a services called a webserver, which serves files over port 80, apache is a popular one. These computers usually sit in large buildings called data centers, rogers could be an isp to them as well, but they would need a faster and more reliable package then the retail ones you would pay for.

Now, you ask who is in charge... well it is not something we know entirely. The network operators(there are a lot of them) use the IANA to allocate addresses in their network however the IANA is not in command of the operators... and in order to connect to the internet you need a peering agreement with someone who already is part of the internet, then the IANA will happily assign you an IP address(not directly, the regional operator would do that). So you ask how much does it cost to connect? Depends who you talk to... most peering agreements are done in private and the details are sketchy... but rogers' network is so huge it is unlikely that they pay anyone for peering. Smaller ISPs like sonic.net in the US have complained about Comcast charging for peering, but they can do that because they are enormous.

So, how do we charge for the internet? well, it is up to the endpoint operator... usually they base this cost on what peering costs them + infrastructure(FIBER IS NOT CHEAP) + administrative costs. So given rogers already spent several millions on the network they are able to charge for speed and usage, and they set whatever arbitrary limits they wish. Now, there is one thing they can't do: There is a maximum number of packets per second that can be sent over fibre/cable because light can only contain so much information in so much time.

So, why charge for bandwidth if it doesn't cost them anything? Because apparently high bandwidth users congest the network(recall the max data transfer of the network). If you are not getting the speeds advertised, it is partly the server's ISP's speeds but also could be rogers reducing the speed over everyone on your node because they just can't send the amount of data being requested with the current technology. Unfortunately they don't care if you actually constrain the network... usually speeds are reduced by "noobs" using netflix at 5ish and the high bandwidth users usually just torrent all the time...but hey, it is their network and they should have some freedom right?


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2
reply to elitefx
Big Thanks to file and Epichappy for 2 very informative posts......