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A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker to Tx

Premium Member

to Tx

Re: Massive Stakes for Online Privacy in Teksavvy Vs Voltage

said by Tx:

Maybe then the content creators will learn a lesson and stop milking the market. Maybe it's what it will take for a serious change. (not to stop paying for content) but for the content creators to suffer losses enough to financially stumble and embrace what is right in front of them.

The problem is that you see way too many people talking about cutting their cable, and how they can get their content other ways. Few are talking about paying for it. I personally agree that the cable companies are out of control. Once you've paid for your basic cable, try getting 3 or 4 specialty channels. There's almost no chance that they're in the same bundle.

I pay for my cable (grudgingly), pay for Netflix, and have a TV capture card on my old desktop. I also have a DVD recorder. So I can record what I want, and don't feel the least bit guilty if I forget to do so and end up using Usenet to download something. I've paid for it already. Under the law it's not legal though, primarily because someone had to upload it for me to download it.

The Toronto Star, yes jumping media for a moment, will go pay sometime next year. However, as a newspaper subscriber, I'll have access to the online content for free. How cool would it be if the cable companies could do the same. I pay my X amount of dollars a month and can download anything I've missed. They could even limit it to some extent so you don't download simply everything.

No, if you want to do that you need to buy/rent a DVR from them. Ones, that I understand from complaints across many forums, that don't always work. There's very little chance that the cablecos and/or Bell will ever really seriously consider changing their delivery model.

I'm not sure how Netflix is doing in Canada. With content like the US (a season behind) it could be a decent competitor to cable. Although I'm not sure if the next year model will support people making new content. If it does, that's great. However, as more people decide to go to cheaper Netflix again, how do you support new stuff?

Then there's a certain percentage of the population who think that the moment they pay their internet subscription that everything should be free. Oh, and that their bandwith should be unlimited at the same time.

This last, usually quite vocal, group is why you get people in other threads saying 'don't pirate and you'll be okay'. They think everyone accused is guilty. And we all know that not everyone is. However, you see tons of threads talking about 'how many bytes and what percentage' - and boy, it looks like a huge amount of backpeddling.

I'm seriously surprised that 2000+ people would even be interested in the list of movies posted. That makes it way more suspect than anything else.
tired
join:2010-12-12

tired

Member

said by A Lurker:

So I can record what I want, and don't feel the least bit guilty if I forget to do so and end up using Usenet to download something. I've paid for it already. Under the law it's not legal though, primarily because someone had to upload it for me to download it.

That's exactly it, isn't it? There is a law out there that you're breaking just as heartily as somebody out there who doesn't pay anything and if you're picked up in a sweep you'll receive exactly the same extortion threats as everyone else. But you feel justified because of X reason just like others feel justified in doing it because of Y reason. That's the symptom of a Bad Law.

What's the solution? Don't know... But what we have now isn't working and unless our judges are much smarter than our politicians things are about to get much, much worse.

One bright ray of hope though is that the recording industry seem to have gotten it though. They moved from the SUE EVERYONE!!! model, Metallica's Napster Bad angst, and DRM everywhere years onto "Hey, people who are our fans will buy our stuff if we just price it reasonably and make it easy to use. So why don't we just try that?"

Hopefully the TV and Film industries will figure it out soon too.

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker

Premium Member

said by tired:

That's exactly it, isn't it? There is a law out there that you're breaking just as heartily as somebody out there who doesn't pay anything and if you're picked up in a sweep you'll receive exactly the same extortion threats as everyone else. But you feel justified because of X reason just like others feel justified in doing it because of Y reason. That's the symptom of a Bad Law.

Well, I don't upload, so legitimately being picked up in a sweep is lower. Note, I didn't say none. The problem is as you raised: reasons.

A - pays for cable, movie network - downloads movie XYZ because they taped it but set recorder wrong, missed ending.

B - buys a DVD and rips it to their media player, to keep the original pristine.

C - thinks paying $12.25 x 2 (plus the overpriced drinks and stuff) is way too much so downloads it instead.

A & B - I get, C - I don't. The first two result in some amount of money going to the producer for each viewer/purchaser, the last one doesn't. All three are technically illegal, all probably think what they're doing is okay.

There does have to be a better way, but I honestly think we're likely decades away from a better model.

AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

AkFubar

Member

said by A Lurker:

said by tired:

That's exactly it, isn't it? There is a law out there that you're breaking just as heartily as somebody out there who doesn't pay anything and if you're picked up in a sweep you'll receive exactly the same extortion threats as everyone else. But you feel justified because of X reason just like others feel justified in doing it because of Y reason. That's the symptom of a Bad Law.

Well, I don't upload, so legitimately being picked up in a sweep is lower. Note, I didn't say none. The problem is as you raised: reasons.

A - pays for cable, movie network - downloads movie XYZ because they taped it but set recorder wrong, missed ending.

B - buys a DVD and rips it to their media player, to keep the original pristine.

C - thinks paying $12.25 x 2 (plus the overpriced drinks and stuff) is way too much so downloads it instead.

A & B - I get, C - I don't. The first two result in some amount of money going to the producer for each viewer/purchaser, the last one doesn't. All three are technically illegal, all probably think what they're doing is okay.

There does have to be a better way, but I honestly think we're likely decades away from a better model.

Unfortunately tho those reasons are not an excuse for downloading a copy that you did not purchase. I doubt the court would except any of those as a defense since the Act is quite explicit.

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

1 edit

A Lurker

Premium Member

said by AkFubar:

Unfortunately tho those reasons are not an excuse for downloading a copy that you did not purchase. I doubt the court would except any of those as a defense since the Act is quite explicit.

That's my point about needing a better distribution model. The middle one is probably the only one that has the lowest potential to get you in trouble. Heck, iTunes lets you put your owned CDs on your iPod, which is the equivalent of example B. Why wasn't Apple* hauled into court?



*brain fart - changed to correct company
tired
join:2010-12-12

tired

Member

Ripping a commercial DVD involves breaking a digital lock, which is illegal and so I don't believe any respectable dvd ripping software will do this for you.

Ripping a CD doesn't require breaking any locks, so you're just using a tool. The assumption is that you know your legal rights (or lack thereof) and will only use the tool when it is legal and you bear the responsibility of the consequences of your actions if you are wrong in the unlikely event that you're caught.
Fyodor
join:2012-08-13

Fyodor

Member

said by tired:

Ripping a commercial DVD involves breaking a digital lock, which is illegal and so I don't believe any respectable dvd ripping software will do this for you.

Ripping a CD doesn't require breaking any locks, so you're just using a tool. The assumption is that you know your legal rights (or lack thereof) and will only use the tool when it is legal and you bear the responsibility of the consequences of your actions if you are wrong in the unlikely event that you're caught.

breaking digital locks isn't illegal in every country... plenty of fine software lets you do that.
tired
join:2010-12-12

tired

Member

Oh, well in that case "The assumption is that you know your legal rights (or lack thereof) and will only use the tool when it is legal and you bear the responsibility of the consequences of your actions if you are wrong in the unlikely event that you're caught." applies and if you're in Canada then you're a copyright infringer because the only difference between ripping a DVD you legally purchased and downloading a copy from the Internet that you haven't purchased is that you're less likely to get caught.