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swampboy

join:2012-01-24
Hamilton, ON

Time to start shopping for a new isp.

I have been with Teksavvy since almost the beginning and have brought many customers their way over the years. I am extremely disappointed in what appears to be a complete willingness to give over customer's private data without a major fight. It is sad that Teksavvy is faced with this mess, but the failure to protect my privacy is a real disappointment for me. Teksavvy has enough expertise to know that an ip is not a person and can be hundreds of individuals at any given time and they should make the court aware of this. Teksavvy should seriously consider whether they can continue in business selling out their customers, because once they give in, the trolls will never let up. A word of advice to Teksavvy - it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. Your future as a viable business depends on the action you take on January 14. You have operated in an admirable way in the past, please don't sell out now.


eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Distributel Cable

You think a company like bell will care more about your privacy? as a distributel customer I think TSI is the BEST choice if you care about privacy, honestly unless you find a mom and pop wisp I can't think of another company that won't sell you out quickly


Fuzzy285

join:2012-12-12

1 edit

said by eeeaddict:

You think a company like bell will care more about your privacy? as a distributel customer I think TSI is the BEST choice if you care about privacy, honestly unless you find a mom and pop wisp I can't think of another company that won't sell you out quickly

If all subscribers affected by this court motion switched as a consequence it would send a clear message to all the other ISP's about how to conduct themselves in the future. Would it be fair to TSI? Probably not.

cynic10

join:2011-02-05
reply to swampboy

I too am majorly disappointed. If you find any good ISP or other small companies worth dealing with, please PM me the info.
I've been with TSI for quite a while and have brought many friends and family to sign up under them. The decision of theirs to just give in and not put up a fight against the copyright trolls had me at a loss for words.

I say that because I've seen how those copyright trolls abuse the system and use extortion-like/mafia-like methods to get money from people with their shaky proof. I do read the news daily on how they abuse the system.

If no one is going to stand up to them, who will? What makes it even worse is the outcome of this issue with TSI we all know will set huge precendence for all other ISP.

And from what I read and seen of those copyright trolls is they wont stop until you are ruined which is why I'm at a loss for words for TSI's decision.


Tong

join:2012-12-11
r3t 38x

The problem is that, no matter which ISP you goes too. They always obey a court order regardless your privacy.

You can keep switching and you will find out the grass is not always greener on another side.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to eeeaddict

said by eeeaddict:

You think a company like bell will care more about your privacy? as a distributel customer I think TSI is the BEST choice if you care about privacy, honestly unless you find a mom and pop wisp I can't think of another company that won't sell you out quickly

You'd be surprised when you have deep pockets. Also don't doubt the bigger guys motives, this could be their opportunity to pounce and show a tiny bit of fight if they too were asked and fought for their customers privacy.

Just imagine if you woke up tomorrow and heard Rogers is denying handing over info to Voltage... I'd be jaw dropped but not surprised honestly. It is after all no a jab at TSI their bigger competition

Ignore court orders for a second... All teksavvy would have to do at this point is lower log retention to show good faith that "we're not going to be abused for easy access to our customers"

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed

1 recommendation

reply to swampboy

I can tell you for a fact the big 3 would hand over your info if ordered by a court. I'm shocked how everyone seems to feel if they broke the law they should be shielded... Canadians are becoming far too entitled if they think it should be an isps duty to not follow the new rules on logs and not follow a court order should one be given. Get your heads out of the clouds... Tsi is asking the courts to give a ruling. If they say give it to them... Then they have to comply... The new copyright law isn't perfect but its the law now... Live with it... As no one did.much before they made the law.


cynic10

join:2011-02-05

1 edit

1 recommendation

I find it ridiculous how you assume people who are complaining are guilty. Everyone is entitled to the right of privacy. "Live with it". What nonsense is this.

Even you admit the copyright law isn't perfect, why should we have to live with it? If no one is going to fight it then nothing is going to change.

It's about the gross abuse of system on those copyright trolls part into intimidating customers into paying fees for something they dont have much proof off.

Spare me your holier than thou attitude and go preach elsewhere.


Fuzzy285

join:2012-12-12
reply to koreyb

said by koreyb:

the new rules on logs and not follow a court order should one be given. Get your heads out of the clouds...

. The problem is, there is no law regarding for how long ISP's have to initially retain logs. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to cynic10

said by cynic10:

I find it ridiculous how you assume people who are complaining are guilty. Everyone is entitled to the right of privacy. "Live with it". What nonsense is this.

Even you admit the copyright law isn't perfect, why should we have to live with it? If no one is going to fight it then nothing is going to change.

It's about the gross abuse of system on those copyright trolls part into intimidating customers into paying fees for something they dont have much proof off.

Spare me your holier than thou attitude and go preach elsewhere.

Because it seems so many think everyone is guilty as soon as you get a letter.

It's no wonder there is no innocence until proven guilty in Canada. Anyone labeled a child pornographer is INSTANTLY labeled scum without proof. Just like several on here do about assumptions with piracy.

Koreyb, never really thought of you as that type.

I, with every ounce of my being believe the motreal based company caught me and i now must pay the piper...

Why?

Well because they said i did it.................

You know i was once accused of hitting someones car in a parking lot, and i will next time have to simply pay the piper because they said i did it, without proof i did.

This is such narrow minded thinking. Also because Teksavvy say's they're doing their best, they must be right?

>>>Dig hole
>>>Put head in sand


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Fuzzy285

said by Fuzzy285:

said by koreyb:

the new rules on logs and not follow a court order should one be given. Get your heads out of the clouds...

. The problem is, there is no law regarding for how long ISP's have to initially retain logs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are not wrong. No set maximums/minimums. ISP is free to choose none to 5 years if they wanted.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to koreyb

said by koreyb:

I can tell you for a fact the big 3 would hand over your info

As you've stated fact. Could you please provide me evidence of this? No one claims fact unless they know something the rest of the world doesn't, unless it's pure speculation.

maycribb

join:2012-12-16
Markham, ON
reply to swampboy

Everyone is free to have their own interpretation.
If you want to switch, you can do so quietly, unless you have other intention to tell everyone.


Fuzzy285

join:2012-12-12

1 edit
reply to Tx

There's a good chance all other ISP's would throw their clients under the bus, UNLESS they had something to lose. But by retaining logs for longer than the minimum necessary they are increasing the likelihood of having to put a third party's interests above their customer's. And we know who pays the bills.


Fuzzy285

join:2012-12-12
reply to maycribb

said by maycribb:

Everyone is free to have their own interpretation.
If you want to switch, you can do so.

Fixed that for you.


XNemesis

join:2002-11-16
Kitchener, ON
reply to swampboy

Explain why ISP's have these logs; what purpose do they serve and does having a longer log retention help said ISP in any way? Or is it solely for the purpose of when this very situation happens and the ISP can have loads of info on all it's customers to hand over via court order?


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

said by koreyb:

I can tell you for a fact the big 3 would hand over your info

As you've stated fact. Could you please provide me evidence of this? No one claims fact unless they know something the rest of the world doesn't, unless it's pure speculation.

You mean like this:
»Hurt Locker P2P Lawsuit Comes to Canada

Bell, Cogeco & Videotron all handed over info to Voltage last year after receiving a court order. None of them fought the court order.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by resa1983:

said by Tx:

said by koreyb:

I can tell you for a fact the big 3 would hand over your info

As you've stated fact. Could you please provide me evidence of this? No one claims fact unless they know something the rest of the world doesn't, unless it's pure speculation.

You mean like this:
»Hurt Locker P2P Lawsuit Comes to Canada

Bell, Cogeco & Videotron all handed over info to Voltage last year after receiving a court order. None of them fought the court order.

I do not see Rogers named. The response was also pertinent to his statement he knows for a fact it will happen this time around as well.

We can't go by history either. Teksavvy had a history as well of doing things that it no longer does. So let's ignore the "they have a history of..." stuff.

When a bold statement such as "fact" is said pertinent to recent events, it tell's me one has more information then the rest of us know.

swampboy

join:2012-01-24
Hamilton, ON

1 recommendation

reply to swampboy

For those you think it's better to stay with Teksavvy because the big guys are worse are missing the point. The big guys scare Voltage and thats why they are going after Teksavvy. Teksavvy doesn't have the resources so they will roll over easier. Voltage will just keep coming back like a school yard bully and Teksavvy will just keep giving up their lunch money. All that is needed in for an ISP to offer "unlimited and unmonitored" packages with a written commitment to no logs. It is a perfectly legal business model. It is also what a smart business would do to gain new customers. This is where Teksavvy customers will be going.


Amou

join:2011-01-29
Guelph, ON

1 recommendation

reply to swampboy

You could just stay and don't do illegal things but bye and good luck.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by Amou:

You could just stay and don't do illegal things but bye and good luck.

Wow.. I'm just lost for words...

Educate yourself, then post...

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

I do not see Rogers named. The response was also pertinent to his statement he knows for a fact it will happen this time around as well.

We can't go by history either. Teksavvy had a history as well of doing things that it no longer does. So let's ignore the "they have a history of..." stuff.

When a bold statement such as "fact" is said pertinent to recent events, it tell's me one has more information then the rest of us know.

Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

swampboy

join:2012-01-24
Hamilton, ON
reply to Amou

"You could just stay and don't do illegal things but bye and good luck."

First off, this conversation is obviously over your head. Here's an example. Let's say you have a wireless network, secured or unsecured. With just a little bit of effort your network can be accessed and the person doing the access can download all the copyright material they want. The ip address points to you and you are on the hook. This court case makes having a home wireless network a huge risk. The only safe network is a wired and firewalled one and even those can be overcome if the person downloads a virus/trojan.

I hope you aren't one of those accidentally accused - because if you are get ready for some big expenses. You can save yourself a lot of grief and worry by changing to an ISP that doesn't log. Or you can stay with Teksavvy and roll the dice. Your choice.



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5

said by swampboy:

You can save yourself a lot of grief and worry by changing to an ISP that doesn't log.

NEWSFLASH! All ISP's log.

So I guess you're going to have to go off and live your analog life without an internet. How much you selling all your internet gadgets for down at the pawn shop?
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by Tx:

I do not see Rogers named. The response was also pertinent to his statement he knows for a fact it will happen this time around as well.

We can't go by history either. Teksavvy had a history as well of doing things that it no longer does. So let's ignore the "they have a history of..." stuff.

When a bold statement such as "fact" is said pertinent to recent events, it tell's me one has more information then the rest of us know.

Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name.

Then maybe for once Rogers has the right idea?... You answered it yourself if true. I think it should be more, and that said i'm rather curious what Marc will be charging per

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by Tx:

said by resa1983:

said by Tx:

I do not see Rogers named. The response was also pertinent to his statement he knows for a fact it will happen this time around as well.

We can't go by history either. Teksavvy had a history as well of doing things that it no longer does. So let's ignore the "they have a history of..." stuff.

When a bold statement such as "fact" is said pertinent to recent events, it tell's me one has more information then the rest of us know.

Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name.

Then maybe for once Rogers has the right idea?... You answered it yourself if true. I think it should be more, and that said i'm rather curious what Marc will be charging per

The thing is, its only to cover COSTS, not to make the IP->subscriber prohibitive.

Its really up to the courts what costs are assigned.. ISP will submit their actual costs, and it may be that an ISP has to 'eat' some of it. Rogers is extremely inefficient. We've seen this with 2011-703, where they go back and do things multiple times (running up costs of doing things). Its very possible that Rogers had to eat some of the costs of the IP->sub as they were already insanely high.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name.

ISPs in Australia implemented a similar system....It costs them money to provide replies to 3rd parties on copyright grounds just like it cost TSI to identify, email, etc those 2000+ subscribers. I doubt Voltage paid TSI a cent....In Australia, those ISPs just started charging like $50 per request even and they saw the number plummet...It seems like these trolls and their movie studio employers are really really concerned with privacy...Until they gotta put money where their mouth is...

said by Tx:

said by Amou:

You could just stay and don't do illegal things but bye and good luck.

Wow.. I'm just lost for words...

Educate yourself, then post...

Wow...seriously. I always knew there were sheep online but they got that guy hook line and sinker...
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to swampboy

OP: you're crazy if you think you're going to find a better company to do business with on these issues. You could try your luck with Telus or SHAW if you can get them in your area, Robbers is the most unethical company in Canada imo so I wouldn't count on them.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to d4m1r

said by d4m1r:

said by resa1983:

Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name.

ISPs in Australia implemented a similar system....It costs them money to provide replies to 3rd parties on copyright grounds just like it cost TSI to identify, email, etc those 2000+ subscribers. I doubt Voltage paid TSI a cent....In Australia, those ISPs just started charging like $50 per request even and they saw the number plummet...It seems like these trolls and their movie studio employers are really really concerned with privacy...Until they gotta put money where their mouth is...

Once TSI submits costs to the court, the judge will make a decision as to how much TSI will get, and then make an order.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

swampboy

join:2012-01-24
Hamilton, ON
reply to TwiztedZero

There is a business case for not logging - that's where I will be going. Given a choice, I will not support an ISP that logs without a court order. At present I am within range of 3 free wifi networks and 18 secured networks and 4 unsecured - I can surf for free if I want. I don't - I'm just saying there is a potential for a lot of innocent people to get hurt by this.