Time to start shopping for a new isp. - TekSavvy

Author	All Replies
Tx bronx cheers from cheap seats Premium join:2008-11-19 kudos:3 Reviews: ·FreePhoneLine ·Rogers Hi-Speed ·TekSavvy DSL	reply to Amou Re: Time to start shopping for a new isp. said by Amou: You could just stay and don't do illegal things but bye and good luck. Wow.. I'm just lost for words... Educate yourself, then post...
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 10:14:58 ·
resa1983 Premium join:2008-03-10 North York, ON kudos:7 Reviews: ·TekSavvy Cable	reply to Tx said by Tx: I do not see Rogers named. The response was also pertinent to his statement he knows for a fact it will happen this time around as well. We can't go by history either. Teksavvy had a history as well of doing things that it no longer does. So let's ignore the "they have a history of..." stuff. When a bold statement such as "fact" is said pertinent to recent events, it tell's me one has more information then the rest of us know. Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name. -- Battle.net Tech Support MVP
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 11:08:00 ·
swampboy join:2012-01-24 Hamilton, ON	reply to Amou "You could just stay and don't do illegal things but bye and good luck." First off, this conversation is obviously over your head. Here's an example. Let's say you have a wireless network, secured or unsecured. With just a little bit of effort your network can be accessed and the person doing the access can download all the copyright material they want. The ip address points to you and you are on the hook. This court case makes having a home wireless network a huge risk. The only safe network is a wired and firewalled one and even those can be overcome if the person downloads a virus/trojan. I hope you aren't one of those accidentally accused - because if you are get ready for some big expenses. You can save yourself a lot of grief and worry by changing to an ISP that doesn't log. Or you can stay with Teksavvy and roll the dice. Your choice.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 11:14:15 ·
TwiztedZero Nine Zero Burp Nine Six Premium join:2011-03-31 Toronto, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·TekSavvy Cable	said by swampboy: You can save yourself a lot of grief and worry by changing to an ISP that doesn't log. NEWSFLASH! All ISP's log. So I guess you're going to have to go off and live your analog life without an internet. How much you selling all your internet gadgets for down at the pawn shop? -- ----\|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -\|---- Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six Twitter = Twizted Zero Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 11:17:37 ·
Tx bronx cheers from cheap seats Premium join:2008-11-19 kudos:3 Reviews: ·FreePhoneLine ·Rogers Hi-Speed ·TekSavvy DSL	reply to resa1983 said by resa1983: said by Tx: I do not see Rogers named. The response was also pertinent to his statement he knows for a fact it will happen this time around as well. We can't go by history either. Teksavvy had a history as well of doing things that it no longer does. So let's ignore the "they have a history of..." stuff. When a bold statement such as "fact" is said pertinent to recent events, it tell's me one has more information then the rest of us know. Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name. Then maybe for once Rogers has the right idea?... You answered it yourself if true. I think it should be more, and that said i'm rather curious what Marc will be charging per
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 11:22:16 ·
resa1983 Premium join:2008-03-10 North York, ON kudos:7 Reviews: ·TekSavvy Cable	said by Tx: said by resa1983: said by Tx: I do not see Rogers named. The response was also pertinent to his statement he knows for a fact it will happen this time around as well. We can't go by history either. Teksavvy had a history as well of doing things that it no longer does. So let's ignore the "they have a history of..." stuff. When a bold statement such as "fact" is said pertinent to recent events, it tell's me one has more information then the rest of us know. Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name. Then maybe for once Rogers has the right idea?... You answered it yourself if true. I think it should be more, and that said i'm rather curious what Marc will be charging per The thing is, its only to cover COSTS, not to make the IP->subscriber prohibitive. Its really up to the courts what costs are assigned.. ISP will submit their actual costs, and it may be that an ISP has to 'eat' some of it. Rogers is extremely inefficient. We've seen this with 2011-703, where they go back and do things multiple times (running up costs of doing things). Its very possible that Rogers had to eat some of the costs of the IP->sub as they were already insanely high. -- Battle.net Tech Support MVP
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 11:27:18 ·

d4m1r join:2011-08-25 Reviews: ·Start Communicat.. ·TekSavvy Cable ·Rogers Hi-Speed	reply to resa1983 said by resa1983: Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name. ISPs in Australia implemented a similar system....It costs them money to provide replies to 3rd parties on copyright grounds just like it cost TSI to identify, email, etc those 2000+ subscribers. I doubt Voltage paid TSI a cent....In Australia, those ISPs just started charging like $50 per request even and they saw the number plummet...It seems like these trolls and their movie studio employers are really really concerned with privacy...Until they gotta put money where their mouth is... said by Tx: said by Amou: You could just stay and don't do illegal things but bye and good luck. Wow.. I'm just lost for words... Educate yourself, then post... Wow...seriously. I always knew there were sheep online but they got that guy hook line and sinker... -- www.613websites.com ● Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 12:06:01 ·
JMJimmy join:2008-07-23	reply to swampboy OP: you're crazy if you think you're going to find a better company to do business with on these issues. You could try your luck with Telus or SHAW if you can get them in your area, Robbers is the most unethical company in Canada imo so I wouldn't count on them.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 12:11:18 ·
resa1983 Premium join:2008-03-10 North York, ON kudos:7 Reviews: ·TekSavvy Cable	reply to d4m1r said by d4m1r: said by resa1983: Nobody goes after Rogers. I suspect this has something to do with the rumour that Rogers requests $200 per IP to get a subscriber name. ISPs in Australia implemented a similar system....It costs them money to provide replies to 3rd parties on copyright grounds just like it cost TSI to identify, email, etc those 2000+ subscribers. I doubt Voltage paid TSI a cent....In Australia, those ISPs just started charging like $50 per request even and they saw the number plummet...It seems like these trolls and their movie studio employers are really really concerned with privacy...Until they gotta put money where their mouth is... Once TSI submits costs to the court, the judge will make a decision as to how much TSI will get, and then make an order. -- Battle.net Tech Support MVP
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 12:11:23 ·
swampboy join:2012-01-24 Hamilton, ON	reply to TwiztedZero There is a business case for not logging - that's where I will be going. Given a choice, I will not support an ISP that logs without a court order. At present I am within range of 3 free wifi networks and 18 secured networks and 4 unsecured - I can surf for free if I want. I don't - I'm just saying there is a potential for a lot of innocent people to get hurt by this.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 12:56:00 ·
Tx bronx cheers from cheap seats Premium join:2008-11-19 kudos:3 Reviews: ·FreePhoneLine ·Rogers Hi-Speed ·TekSavvy DSL	reply to resa1983 said by resa1983: The thing is, its only to cover COSTS, not to make the IP->subscriber prohibitive. Its really up to the courts what costs are assigned.. ISP will submit their actual costs, and it may be that an ISP has to 'eat' some of it. Rogers is extremely inefficient. We've seen this with 2011-703, where they go back and do things multiple times (running up costs of doing things). Its very possible that Rogers had to eat some of the costs of the IP->sub as they were already insanely high. Well considering they're being asked to associate 2300 IP's to accounts be it a 10% margin of them are the same user, high paid techs and "administrative fee's" could easily be pushed to a level of which is fair to TSI but absurd for Voltage to pay in order to get. I'll be honest, i'm surprised a judge hasn't looked at Voltage's history over the last 6 years and seen that they barely produce movies anymore, they are just going after people as the new business model and this is not what copyright was intended for.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 13:39:53 ·
resa1983 Premium join:2008-03-10 North York, ON kudos:7 Reviews: ·TekSavvy Cable	said by Tx: said by resa1983: The thing is, its only to cover COSTS, not to make the IP->subscriber prohibitive. Its really up to the courts what costs are assigned.. ISP will submit their actual costs, and it may be that an ISP has to 'eat' some of it. Rogers is extremely inefficient. We've seen this with 2011-703, where they go back and do things multiple times (running up costs of doing things). Its very possible that Rogers had to eat some of the costs of the IP->sub as they were already insanely high. Well considering they're being asked to associate 2300 IP's to accounts be it a 10% margin of them are the same user, high paid techs and "administrative fee's" could easily be pushed to a level of which is fair to TSI but absurd for Voltage to pay in order to get. I'll be honest, i'm surprised a judge hasn't looked at Voltage's history over the last 6 years and seen that they barely produce movies anymore, they are just going after people as the new business model and this is not what copyright was intended for. Nobody but CIPPIC has brought up history, therefore the Judge can't really use it to make a decision yay or nay. Once CIPPIC becomes an intervenor, and a mini-trial of evidence prior to the court order occurs, only then can all this be brought up. -- Battle.net Tech Support MVP
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 13:41:56 ·
DarkStar33 join:2008-03-27 Toronto, ON Reviews: ·TekSavvy Cable	reply to swampboy The whole reason this first court date was created to decide if this information should even be provided. CIPPIC's job is to ensure the privacy of Canadians and to prevent the abuse of the legal system to retrieve this information without any Voltage having any intention of actually going to court. Its entirely possible that in order to preserve the privacy of Canadian citizens (our government actually care about this quite a bit), a requirement for disclosure of this customer information may be that they must be used in legal proceedings only. The copyright framework was created to prevent companies from sending shakedown letters, something that has received a large amount of controversy in the US. We will know more in Jan. -- TekSavvy Extreme Cable Pro (Toronto, ON) »www.speedtest.net/result/1343900371.png
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 14:14:20 ·
jibby join:2008-03-31 Reviews: ·TekSavvy Cable	reply to swampboy i'm not jumping ship or trash talking TSI but i'd consider switching to an ISP with minimal/no logs just to avoid the possibility of being mistakenly identified in logs. we've already seen that 42 people can be identified in error very easily - that's a mistake i personally can't afford
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 14:31:34 ·
cynic10 join:2011-02-05 1 edit	And that's the scary part. 42 people been wrongly identified. What if those 42 didn't know any better and paid out a settlement to avoid going to court. How screwed up is that? Basically they're guilty until proven innocent. That's exactly what's been happening in the US. I can only hope our court is not as corrupted as the US when it comes to copyright laws or paid off already. That's why TSI is a major letdown in its decision to just let the issue fly. These trolls do nothing but shakedown customers and pick on those that don't have the resources or means to defend themselves and they know it because it's extra revenue for them.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 14:43:36 ·
funny join:2010-12-22	reply to eeeaddict said by eeeaddict: You think a company like bell will care more about your privacy? as a distributel customer I think TSI is the BEST choice if you care about privacy, honestly unless you find a mom and pop wisp I can't think of another company that won't sell you out quickly hehe BELL would kill you if they thought they could make money that is the way i feel...rogers used the fbi early on for its "security" gee wonder who knows about your surfing habits with rogers.... shaw and telus well jsut the same as bell
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 15:20:55 ·
funny join:2010-12-22	reply to Fuzzy285 said by Fuzzy285: said by eeeaddict: You think a company like bell will care more about your privacy? as a distributel customer I think TSI is the BEST choice if you care about privacy, honestly unless you find a mom and pop wisp I can't think of another company that won't sell you out quickly If all subscribers affected by this court motion switched as a consequence it would send a clear message to all the other ISP's about how to conduct themselves in the future. Would it be fair to TSI? Probably not, but neither is paying $20K for something your neighbour, child, cousin downloaded off your connection. I think I read somewhere that the 2,300 IP's translated into just short of 1,500 customers; @ $50/month = $900,000/year in lost revenues for TSI. If that were to happen, TSI and other ISP's might start keeping logs for a shorter period of time as a consequence. na they'd send more trolls to the teksavvy board to try and gain more customers using the tsi did nothing crap fact is did you ever hear bell , telus, shaw, rogers...ever warn there customers before the fact...NO they just say gimmie gimmie a few dollars and you can have all da precious
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 15:22:15 ·
funny join:2010-12-22	reply to koreyb said by koreyb: I can tell you for a fact the big 3 would hand over your info if ordered by a court. I'm shocked how everyone seems to feel if they broke the law they should be shielded... Canadians are becoming far too entitled if they think it should be an isps duty to not follow the new rules on logs and not follow a court order should one be given. Get your heads out of the clouds... Tsi is asking the courts to give a ruling. If they say give it to them... Then they have to comply... The new copyright law isn't perfect but its the law now... Live with it... As no one did.much before they made the law. anyone would if ordered by a court but after standing up for net neutrality and user rights you'd think that some way they might at least fire off one across the bow of voltage about the technicallity they filed for the wrong thing and can't prove what they are claiming so why bother giving them the users names and addresses. It makes no differance they can't prove commerical infringement with just an ip address trading/sharing a file. NOW warning you all is good , shows the system is broken already and needs a lil more fixing as in more process added to evidence discovery for proof that commerical or non commerical was done. and i'll bet you 50 bucks voltage won't refile for non commerical cause there just is too much risk to get no money using lawyers. ALSO an aspect of where they filed might mean they can't enjoin all these people this way , as provincial courts have jurisdiction on class actions....thus they need to file in a lower court and thus also can't file for punitive commerical this way... to hit you punitively using a federal law they must file federally and cant join all the cases.... class actions are meant for we the people to fight big bad companies and corproations not the other way around, and judges are making recently the rules tougher to get any class action going.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 15:29:14 ·
funny join:2010-12-22	reply to cynic10 said by cynic10: I find it ridiculous how you assume people who are complaining are guilty. Everyone is entitled to the right of privacy. "Live with it". What nonsense is this. Even you admit the copyright law isn't perfect, why should we have to live with it? If no one is going to fight it then nothing is going to change. It's about the gross abuse of system on those copyright trolls part into intimidating customers into paying fees for something they dont have much proof off. Spare me your holier than thou attitude and go preach elsewhere. im not guilty nor named in said suit , ive had about 30 gb of data use this month ...tell me why then i seek to help my fellow Canadians? oh im a big crazy file sharer am i. prove it and if you can't its slander and defamation of character...be careful lots a lawyers crawling over this site now.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 15:30:45 ·
funny join:2010-12-22	reply to Tx said by Tx: said by Fuzzy285: said by koreyb: the new rules on logs and not follow a court order should one be given. Get your heads out of the clouds... . The problem is, there is no law regarding for how long ISP's have to initially retain logs. Correct me if I'm wrong. You are not wrong. No set maximums/minimums. ISP is free to choose none to 5 years if they wanted. almost impossible on large scale systems ot not have some logs and for spamming and bad things that can happen you might think a month is prolly the min that could be doable in scale.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-12-23 15:31:45 ·

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Re: Time to start shopping for a new isp.