| reply to swampboy
Re: Time to start shopping for a new isp. BTW....
I went online once to get an opinion on a washing machine. There I found a very willing and highly opinionated "fellow poster" who in the end, was a salesman.
Anyone can post on this forum, including people who pretend to have no intere$t in this other then self proclaimed righteous opinion. |
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1 edit | reply to Who
In addition to shopping for short log retentions, will we have to hire a network administrator to configure and manage our wireless routers now? Damn you conservatives, you've finally motivated me to vote in the next election. |
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| It's not a "Conservative" issue. The industry was screaming and threatening their heads off. Don't underestimate how much money the movie industry brings in and how much pressure they can exert because of that.
Look hard......and note all the "legalization" of many things that were commonly done (time shifting, youtube music, etc) but dangerously left it up to the courts to interpret. Now all of those are LEGAL....... and they also left a GIANT hole for ISP's to protect their customers. So all the ISP's have to do is walk through it.
This is as simple as pie. None or minimum log retention. No records. No troll industry. Period. |
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| reply to TOPDAWG
I didint read the last 10 posts but before that many people think its a good idea to remove logs all together. Well how the hell are we going to catch criminals who hack the banks and do other dangerous things ? As soon as an ISP removes logs, all the scum will go to that ISP to do all their nasty business. Its a safety issue.
Another point is that logs are kept for the operation of the ISP in general. They have to fix problems, which have to be logged somewhere so that they can troubleshoot. It skinda common sense so forget about log removal - none of them will do it. |
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 hm
@videotron.ca | reply to resa1983
said by resa1983:Once TSI submits costs to the court, the judge will make a decision as to how much TSI will get, and then make an order.
I'm not so sure TSI have to lose money by insisting on notifying their customers, as Marc stated.
When I called PrivCom about the Videotron, Bell & Cogeco Hurt Locker suit, they said they have a responsibility for protection of info, which Videotron, Bell and Cogeco chose to ignore.
Now I'm sure Marc got sound legal advice and Bean-counter advice, however, I just question this.
Protection can come in many forms. In this case protection came with your right to be informed (as Marc has done) when your private info can end up some place shady, and it's up to you to get legal counsil to quash.
Thus, Marc performed his duties under PIPEDA (as I see it).
Or as the Ontario Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner (IPC.on.ca), Dr. Ann Cavoukian, would state: Marc performed his duty by having privacy built into the process as best he could under the circumstances.
So as far as I see it both fed and prov (although this is Fed regulated) Marc did his duty. Up to people to pull up their socks as well.
So, should these monies be claimed? Of course. Protection, as it pertains to Fed reg's (and even prov) has been completed.
Marc seems to think otherwise, but I would fight this and claim the cost of notice as well since it served also as protection (which many may just ignore, their choice).
Anyhow that's just my argument into the cost and why it should be costed and not come out of TSI's pocket. |
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 Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3
 ·FreePhoneLine
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to logs
said by logs :I didint read the last 10 posts but before that many people think its a good idea to remove logs all together. Well how the hell are we going to catch criminals who hack the banks and do other dangerous things ? As soon as an ISP removes logs, all the scum will go to that ISP to do all their nasty business. Its a safety issue.
Another point is that logs are kept for the operation of the ISP in general. They have to fix problems, which have to be logged somewhere so that they can troubleshoot. It skinda common sense so forget about log removal - none of them will do it.
ISP logs are the least of your worry with hackers... most will be using multiple proxies hiding their tracks. Hackers are good at staying hidden, that's what make's them good at what they do.
Even when i was 13, i was rooting servers for fun and before i was done i'd wipe logs and hide any traces of a root except for a defaced front page of their site. Wasn't my most admirable days, i was stupid but it was fun, the learning and knowing how a system's gears turn.
I developed a root kit back in the day that was widely used... Why? because i enjoyed programming and creating a tool that tests the security of a box. I was later hired as a security analyst to preform audits on their boxes to find vulnerabilities. To this day SQL injections are the easiest way to screw with people.
All this said, an ISP keeping a log of me is least of my worry if i was a hacker. You know why?
Because hackers these days unlike when i was younger have access to wifi. If it were me doing it today, i'd be using YOUR connection to "hack banks" etc. I've said it in a previous thread, that a neighbour of mine didn't believe me that his wifi unsafe. I did it right in front of him, cracked his wifi on his patio gaining access to his entire shared network. |
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 ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | reply to swampboy
How many people in this thread have received letters? |
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| reply to Tx
»www.cippic.ca/sites/default/file···ions.pdf
Good Read |
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 A LurkerPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON
1 edit | reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:How many people in this thread have received letters? Oddly enough, I think the most vocal people in the threads have not received a letter. I haven't (a-not a TSI customer, b-don't use torrents). However, I know the danger of fishing expeditions like this and hate to think that Voltage could possibly make more money with sending out threatening letters than they did by making movies.
It's been stated over and over, but an innocent person fighting could spend more money than the possible extortion letters could ask for. That's fine for some that can afford to fight, but what about those that can't. Also, any that do pay up just make it more likely they'll do it again, to a larger group.
I've seen a couple of numbers thrown around that says at least 2% of the original people ID'd were incorrect. That doesn't even take into account that some of the IPs may not have been provided correctly in the first place. This is from an ISP that is taking care to make sure those identifications were correct.
Take Rogers, or Cogeco, or Bell... will they be as concerned with getting the identifications correct? If you have an issue with the identification will they be responding promptly to help you. * So, let's see - a million identifications (that's what they claim they have). Could be 20,000 people getting sued under false pretenses. Could be another group that haven't done what they're being accused of... it gets messy.
It's sad really as the media companies likely are spending a fortune to try and stop the process. Research, better licensing, finding a better method to distribute, and everyone might win.
ETA: * sorry I meant to add that ~3 years ago (& 2) I got a notification from Cogeco that definitely wasn't me. A very helpful person in their security department did at least help with the an explanation. |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:How many people in this thread have received letters?
I didn't and i doubt many did... so far i can say about 3 people have said they received them. |
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| reply to Tx
@Tx - I totally agree with your posts on this matter. It is sad to see so many are so misinformed on security issues. I'm not on Voltage's list, but I know I could easily have been so - either accidentally or through someone jumping on my network.
I have thought a lot about possible solutions for Teksavvy:
1) stop logging for all unlimited customers - it is totally unnecessary for billing purposes.
2) make all other subscribers aware that their internet usage is logged and if they don't want that - they have to move to unlimited.
This is a win-win. More money and happy customers. Teksavvy remains the good guy and builds it's reputation. |
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| said by swampboy:2) make all other subscribers aware that their internet usage is logged and if they don't want that - they have to move to unlimited.
This is a win-win. More money and happy customers. Teksavvy remains the good guy and builds it's reputation.
Only problem would be political. The movie industry would train it's eye on Teksavvy, ala Lord of the Rings, and bring their considerable finances and political influence to bear. I think Teksavvy understands this and that's why they are hanging customers out to dry.
It's really up to the internet population to protect themselves from these troll attacks. You are your best protection. |
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| reply to Tx
said by Tx:Although not relevant to the issue at hand or discussion, i'd love to see this log.
of course you would tell me how would i do that and keep my anonimity i know ill upload this to the pirate bay and come back after i do this (its the darn holidays bud ) and ill out that
ya no problem |
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| reply to Tx
said by Tx:Honestly no offence but i'm not reading that... please paragraph next time. That's a mess.
All i read was the first line. Educate yourself on exactly what you said and how really silly it sounds. If you truly understand the internet and how it works your statement is out of left field.
"Don't do illegal things and you're fine" lol. You know my grandmother was accused once for downloading a ubisoft game. She's 92 and can barely play solitaire. That pesky women must have grabbed Assassins creed. I knew she wanted to be a ninja
you sound liek that guilty guy whom tries to find any reason to sound innocent.
and once said error was found was she not exonertated...all courts make errors now and then...instead fo showing JUST a probelm why not try a solution too |
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| reply to Amou
said by Amou:said by Tx:Honestly no offence but i'm not reading that... please paragraph next time. That's a mess.
All i read was the first line. Educate yourself on exactly what you said and how really silly it sounds. If you truly understand the internet and how it works your statement is out of left field.
"Don't do illegal things and you're fine" lol. You know my grandmother was accused once for downloading a ubisoft game. She's 92 and can barely play solitaire. That pesky women must have grabbed Assassins creed. I knew she wanted to be a ninja
Quite true, people don't read. If you read policy and understand how the internet works, you wouldn't be in this mess. Ignorance is bliss only works until they put in a law saying that you probably shouldn't leave your door open and next time it happens that excuse won't work and yes unfortunate for your grandmother, the person setting up the network obviously didn't know how to read the manual and set up easy security. hehe im not even gonna tell you how many ways you prolly infringe someone's intellectual property ina day , that don't sue you....so have a nice day..copyrights with 80 year terms are not about user/consumer/society balance they are a rape of humankind. |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to funny
said by funny:said by Tx:Although not relevant to the issue at hand or discussion, i'd love to see this log.
of course you would tell me how would i do that and keep my anonimity i know ill upload this to the pirate bay and come back after i do this (its the darn holidays bud ) and ill out that ya no problem »pastebin.com/ |
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| reply to OHSrob
said by OHSrob:You guys need to stop blaming teksavvy and start looking at legal defenses.
Its the law they have to obey it.
Read up on ingress and egress filtering because not every isp practices it is relatively trivial to create fraudulent packets that isp's routers will forward to their destinations causing the device on the other end think it is talking to the fraudulent ip address.
Someone on an isp without filtering or even potentiality the movie trolls themselves can pretend to be a teksavvy customer (even if teksavvy filter's on their own network because it came from another network). As far as the other end is concerned the packets came from teksavvy.
There you go now you guys have the basis to found a defense on.
If your not part of the upcoming lawsuit contact your MP and work on getting the laws changed to be a based in reality. If you getting sued contact your lawyer and get a solid defense ready because your going to need it.
None of my customers have been targeted by voltage but I have still taken measures anyways. (log retention is now only 3 months).
ISP's cant stop logging ip address assignments as there is FAR too many illegal things you can do on the internet and no sane person running an isp would want to turn their network into a safe haven for child predators or child pornographers or terrorists.
Teksavvy are the good guys not the bad guys they are doing everything legally possible to protect you from the copyright trolls.
Every isp should follow the model that teksavvy has put forth.
yup and what have i been trying ot do for them....its the yap yap not listening factor thats funny |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to funny
said by funny:said by Tx:Honestly no offence but i'm not reading that... please paragraph next time. That's a mess.
All i read was the first line. Educate yourself on exactly what you said and how really silly it sounds. If you truly understand the internet and how it works your statement is out of left field.
"Don't do illegal things and you're fine" lol. You know my grandmother was accused once for downloading a ubisoft game. She's 92 and can barely play solitaire. That pesky women must have grabbed Assassins creed. I knew she wanted to be a ninja
you sound liek that guilty guy whom tries to find any reason to sound innocent. and once said error was found was she not exonertated...all courts make errors now and then...instead fo showing JUST a probelm why not try a solution too That makes no sense. if i got a letter, i'd have no problems admitting to it lol...i guarantee i didn't, considring i do not use the TSI account from home lol |
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| reply to Fuzzy285
said by Fuzzy285:said by OHSrob:Read up on ingress and egress filtering because not every isp practices it is relatively trivial to create fraudulent packets that isp's routers will forward to their destinations causing the device on the other end think it is talking to the fraudulent ip address.
Someone on an isp without filtering or even potentiality the movie trolls themselves can pretend to be a teksavvy customer (even if teksavvy filter's on their own network because it came from another network). As far as the other end is concerned the packets came from teksavvy.
So you're saying that someone can forge packets and basically frame someone else. And knowing this to be a fact, your approach is still to retain logs for 3 months. Even though law enforcement investigating serious crimes can get a warrant for your recent logs in less than 48h, you still retain 3 months worth of logs. Not 2 weeks. Not 4 weeks. 3 Months. Just in case someone who's not law enforcement, like say a copyright troll, needs it. Well, at least you're doing your part. please you realize how hard that actually is and oh nvm i want you to know that it just doesnt happen enough that 2300 tsi users would be affected for the same thing ergo your saying all 2300 were a zombie bot....good luck with that |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Tx
said by Tx:said by funny:said by Tx:Although not relevant to the issue at hand or discussion, i'd love to see this log.
of course you would tell me how would i do that and keep my anonimity i know ill upload this to the pirate bay and come back after i do this (its the darn holidays bud ) and ill out that ya no problem Doesn't get easier then this. »pastebin.com/ |
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