O Canada! > Canadian > TekSavvy > If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

reply to apvm

Re: If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

reply to Boop
I'm curious as to why, when Voltage accused TSI of a PR movement in asking for postponement, TSI didn't take the opportunity to question the targeting of TSI, exclusively. Certainly IP's from the larger players where found in much greater numbers when Canipre monitored those torrents. If Voltage is defending its copyrights, why did it strip those out? Where is the motion asking for Rogers and Bell to disclose customer info? Where's the action against that much, much larger number of Doe's? There's obviously an agenda here, but even though TSI is being harmed, no protest. Odd.

Completely speculating, but I wonder if targeting the little guy (little by comparison to Bell & Rogers) has something to do with TSI likely having a lot fewer resources to be able to defend their customers.

Perhaps the goal is to go against someone who they would perceive as weak... have a court force the ISP (TSI) to hand over any available customer info, then have legal precedent when they do it again with some of the larger players.

reply to Boop
For once i think it'd be a nice thing to see all ISP's in Canada band together to fight for a common ground.

I have already started the ball rolling, start communications here I come, not sticking up for the people that pay their bills is one thing, but their CEO seems to be on here putting up a lot of smoke and mirrors and posting misleading half truths. Good-by and good riddance.

I've been following this discussion for a while, mostly just to educate myself, but what makes you think that Start Communications would stick up for their customers?

Who knows what start would do, but we all know what teksavvy did, not only that I can get rid of my crappy DSL connection.

reply to DVA

reply to apvm

Re: If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

When you look at the whole situation here, ISPs in general are not standing up to our privacy rights. That's cause for a lot of my concern in all of this.

The CIPPIC will be insuring that the public interest around privacy is brought up in court. I think for the most part due to the CIPPIC involvement with this case that Teksavvy subscribers interests in privacy will be represented. This may not be the case if you choose to go to another ISP.

While I strongly disagree with how this was handled by both Teksavvy, Voltage, Bell, Distributel; PIPEDA is up for review, and there is renewed calls by consumer and privacy advocacy groups (including all of Canada's Privacy Commissioners) to ensure this legislation contains some pretty hefty fines for companies who don't respect our privacy and charter rights.

IMO Charter rights should be fully upheld by the company you do business with. Copyright should not trump privacy or your right to be protected against unreasonable search and seizure. Until the law has been updated to reflect that and severely punish businesses who don't respect those rights, drop off the map completely by using Tor/VPN services. Use encrypted communications and e-mail. I had an excellent interview with digital privacy expert Chris Parsons a few months back, in which he does give some pretty good advice on how to protect your privacy online. The interview can be found:

»canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/···a-ep-02/
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My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/

One of the huge problems is that even if you don't use your internet at all. If you are a subscribers you can be one of the 5% or even 0.1% of errors that still gets your privacy violated and blackmailed..

This absolute lack of any factual provable evidence is insane.

Right now we are trusting in some 3'rd party company who collected data that their data is 100% accurate (I wouldn't be making bets on that) then second we rely on the scum lawsuit company to sort that data, and pass it onto their lawyers 100% accurately (again not making any bets). Then we rely on our ISP collecting all the data to match the first data 100% accurately (we already know for a fact that doesn't happen).

3 points of major failure where someone data entry operator can do one slip of a fingers and cost anyone thousands of dollars, (or hundreds of hours of time).

This is why we need to fight this crap.

First of all I am not a lawyer, nor am I certified to practice law in the province of Ontario. Neither is anyone so far in this thread that I can identify. Please take everything heard here with a grain of salt and seek the proper advice if its needed.

If tek fights this like poeple want it will mean Tek is actually incriminating itself (as a company) for wilful commercial infringement (because they are profiting off of the data).

Remember there is no 3rd party exemption for ISPs in Canada (or anyone else). If an ISP (or IP owner/poster) doesn't bend over and negotiate--it gets held responsible for 3rd party usage of the assets it is responsible for.

In essence, the ISP is responsible not you, unless the ISP sides with the plaintiff completely. This is going to either have to be modified in an amendment to the Copyright Act, or through case law (as it has not been tested yet) but this is how the law works here.

An ISP can argue during discovery (like others have) that the evidence is flawed but again that is as a defendant not an innocent 'dumb pipe'. If the ISP loses that battle, then it is now defending a full blown-out corporate lawsuit.

Vonage has filed the suit to say "give us the data Tek Savvy or were suing you Tek Savvy for the commercial infringement claimed herein. They are suing Tek for the data to go after the individual, or for the money from Tek itself.

Essentially it means Tek could be liable for a minimum of 40 million dollars. (or 2 billion depending on the Judge's decision). That would kill the ISP off completely, assets and all.

Tek isn't going to destroy itself for 2 or 3 percent of its client load, privacy or not. Why is it so hard for some people to get that....

Also few comments on worst case scenario:

-- CIPPC filed amicus to ensure privacy and charter rights are going to be respected when (and if) the data is to be transferred. That includes ensuring due process is given. Neutral evidence was presented to suggest Vonage's Request was not in compliance with the law. CIPPC did not comment on the validity of the claim just the method of handling it.

-- What is reasonable will be determined on the 13th. This will include (if allowed) a reasonable grace period for Tek to pursue requisite disclosure per privacy laws.

-- The case is being heard in Superior Court. That means the trial process is more complicated and detailed. It is more then likely a Part 13 trial as well, that means you have a full variety of defence strategies. This includes cross examination of everything including the validity of a commercial claim against you.

(FYI this costs an additional $200 or so and 1 form. For both forms in your Statement of Defence, your looking at $600, plus 2-3 hours of legal assistance to structure your argument properly. All of this can be recovered if you are successful)

-- You cannot be held liable as a "Jonn/Jane Doe" in Canadian court. You have to be identified by your legal name when being accused of something. You can Motion to dismiss ($200) if, by any chance your account with TekSavvy has errors in proper identification.

-- This also means that Vonage will have to file a claim in each region where the individuals reside. You can be accused with 20, 30, or more but it has to be filed in your region of residence listed in the (valid) information from Tek Savvy.

-- Because of this you will be given plenty of time (30 days) before you have to appear in court. Remember this will have to be a new claim for due process to be followed, so the clock resets.

This is also why CIPPC intervened.

-- If you are identified and for some odd reason were not notified per the ruling on the 13th you can hold Teksavvy liable for causing you distress and violating your privacy rights. This can be handled in small claims. I'm surprised that with of this aggressive language in this thread no one has looked at this angle already...

reply to Boop
I agree with your post. Expect to be flamed if you tell the facts as they are in this forum. Certain people here will criticize you if appear in the slightest to defend Teksavvy's position in this. As TSI Marc has said, there is a lot of negativity here.
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If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.