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funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to resa1983

Re: If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

said by resa1983:

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Epiralawler :

First of all I am not a lawyer, nor am I certified to practice law in the province of Ontario.

Nor would it seem that you are fully versed in the indisputable facts....

It's Voltage, not Vonage.
It's the 14th, not the 13th.
Nor is it a foregone conclusion that CIPPIC will be granted standing in this case.

No, its not a foregone conclusion. However, considering the past suits CIPPIC has intervened in, as well as all the information in the motion to intervene (ie CIPPIC already knows what's going on and doesn't need an extension to catch up on the case), chances are the Judge will allow it. The only reason the Judge didn't allow CIPPIC's lawyer to talk on the 17th, was because a formal motion to intervene hadn't been submitted to the courts, and Voltage's lawyer got cranky about that and pointed it out..

The judge didn't have to read CIPPIC's notice of intent to motion to intervene on the 17th with additional background info on Voltage and take it's information under advisement before making his adjournment ruling, but he did.

Anyways, attached is CIPPIC's motion to intervene. Major arguments have been saved for further filings/in court.

lets play pretend why would i as judge when both parties agreed to pass the data form one to other allow you to take my time and effort to hear this....argue away and then ruling....dont put your eggs all in one basket people say and that's what has happened ask yourself what rulings has that judge mad ein past that gives you a clue.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

said by Boop :

So I have been doing some reading. A lot of reading.
At first I thought that Tek were great, with sending notices
and all, being here on the forum. At first I thought that a court
order is, you know, an ORDER, and they have to comply.

Now I know more. Now I know that a company can
and should fight against an unjust court order. It is legal
to fight a court.

I've been a happy client for 4 years.
If TekSavvi stays dormant on Jan 14th I'm leaving.

I don't think the alternatives are any better, but I
will be leaving none the less.

It has, we have a dictator in power that has acquiescence to his American(soon to be serving 2 asters with Europe being the other) Master demands.

harper may be a lot a things BUT a dictator not quite yet.
A) he backed off the legislation form vic toews when he saw 464000 signings in 4 days. A part of that legislation would have required ISPS to log for X time
B) he said publically for judges to error on the low side for non commercial infringements ergo 100 per file up to the max 5000 dollars.

C)everyone knows voltage is out to lunch on this being a commercial infringement we just have to get a judge to think this way.

D) was the data collection process proper , legal and sound?
E) does this mean if i call up teksavvy tomorrow and file a lawsuit on all tsi's users for infringement will they then hand over all your names addresses and data ? Scarey...IF this is the precedent i might be calling bell canada ....and every isp....
muhaha

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Dr Facts

said by Dr Facts :

c) is an intriguing idea but I doubt Voltage would go for it. After all if it gets to a judge I imagine it would go like this (and as always, not a law talking guy here):

Voltage: That guy downloaded our movie! This destroyed our production company... SHUT UP LAUGHING THEY WERE GOOD MOVIES! Anyway we want $10,000.

John D'oh: No I didn't, I never heard of this movie until this case.

Voltage: Well this other company bought this software that they showed us says you did.

John D'oh: Oh. Well I can't help that, I didn't. And how many false-positives does that software produce anyway?

So at that point Voltage would need more, like John's hard drive with the movie on it (or a whole bunch of other copied movies in the same genre) or TSI handing over John's complete internet history including him going to bittorrent sites or someone saying they say John watching the movie or perhaps a post on a forum from John saying that he saw the movie he never heard of an damn did it suck!

Can Voltage get any of that stuff without some major court orders?

and he then adds your suing me cause of commercial infringement

i never made any money from your movie and YOU CANT PROVE IT...
what's it called again ? ( hears more laughing )

case dissmissed.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by Dr Facts :

c) is an intriguing idea but I doubt Voltage would go for it. After all if it gets to a judge I imagine it would go like this (and as always, not a law talking guy here):

Voltage: That guy downloaded our movie! This destroyed our production company... SHUT UP LAUGHING THEY WERE GOOD MOVIES! Anyway we want $10,000.

John D'oh: No I didn't, I never heard of this movie until this case.

Voltage: Well this other company bought this software that they showed us says you did.

John D'oh: Oh. Well I can't help that, I didn't. And how many false-positives does that software produce anyway?

So at that point Voltage would need more, like John's hard drive with the movie on it (or a whole bunch of other copied movies in the same genre) or TSI handing over John's complete internet history including him going to bittorrent sites or someone saying they say John watching the movie or perhaps a post on a forum from John saying that he saw the movie he never heard of an damn did it suck!

Can Voltage get any of that stuff without some major court orders?

TSI doesn't have a customer's internet history. They don't do DPI. They have total amounts downloaded & uploaded per month, and thats it.

What Voltage could do however, is do depositions, and forensic analysis of your computer..

However, after years of this racket in the US, they've only STARTED doing depositions within the last few months ("We're trying to find the downloader."), and they haven't done forensic analysis of systems, even if you say you're innocent & offer to hand your system over to them.

ooops sorry that computer died and i beat it with a sledge hammer last week.....got this new shiney one here

oh and this hacker told me to run this program cleans up stuff on my pc ...nice kid turns out it also gave me a back door virus awful stuff those are. doing all kinds a weird stuff .....

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Dr Facts

said by Dr Facts :

>TSI doesn't have a customer's internet history.

Ah, well that's one avenue closed.

Not sure how I feel about that, I dig privacy and all that but when the cops come with a child porn case and a court order I'd like to think that an ISP can help. Tricky line there.

>forensic analysis of your computer.

And if they don't find it then what? They can say you deleted it with some super military grade disc-wipe utility.

And John could say it was never there.

And I suspect the balance of probability between the two still wouldn't be enough to convince a judge to the tune of $10,000.

> even if you say you're innocent & offer to hand your system over to them.

Which I would cheerfully do and fill the hard drive beforehand with all the negative reviews of Voltage "films".

no proof you have said file
well possessin is 9 tenths of the law....
i know you stole my hammer dammit just caus eyou got no hammers anywhere i know you stole it though....
see this guy had a computer program that saw you do it...says so right here , what ya mean its not a video of him doing it....it jsut says man at this house took my hammer.
ya that will fly as far as a turd as in case dissmissed

i can fake that data pretty darn good being into 3d special affects and video creation myself.
i could even given a lil time make a video of you that would look pretty darn damning till it got real well looked at.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Dr Facts

facts are facts without evidence there is no spoon


funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to neochu

said by neochu:

To Op, your free to go to wherever you want to go for your Mandated; non essential telecommunications service. But, wherever you do the law is the same and this can happen to ANY ISP in Canada--big or small.

Its just the bigger ISPs have more money and resources to deal with frivolous claims related to legislative cross conflicts due to poorly planned and implemented amendments.

said by Arcturus:

Tell us in actual factual language, and information provided by their lawyers as to WHY this is not the case. So far I have no seen this provided from us as to why Teksavvy is not fighting for our privacy.

Let me weigh in on the anonymous posting. Though without actual case law references and direct references to the legislation itself--it's hard to prove. Without skirting the definition of "Legal Advice without a Law Licence in Ontario" at least.

Of course no lawyer actually involved with the case (or persons involved) are going to be giving out information subject to client-attorney privilege publicly. Naturally, that means they wont be jeopardizing the case by weighing in on this thread.

So in reality your proof is impossible to give, making you un-convinceable. That is fine.

I suggest you speak to a qualified legal professional if you so wish to for more details. It is clear you probably should be pursuing your own claim against them for your perceived privacy violations.

I also suggest anyone reading this post and is a concerned TekSavvy Customer file a complaint with the Privacy Commissioner. It is clear there is potentially enough risk for them to become involved.

said by Arcturus:

>In essence, the ISP is responsible not you, unless the ISP sides with the plaintiff completely.

That is last part is not in the law, the ISP is responsible regardless if they co-operate or not. There is nothing in the law that abides an infringer of the law because they co-operated to find other infringers.

[...](If they lose this case, they could be the ones sued for all 2000 cases). Just as much as any individuals.

3rd Party Liability. In the eyes of Canadian Common Law, Tek Savvy can be held responsible for the actions of its subscribers who use its infrastructure. It gets very complicated but because of its status under the Telecommunication's act 'the buck stops' at Tek as the primary 3rd party. There is nothing in the amendments or other rulings to suggest common law doesn't apply to copyright legislation.

The workings of 3rd party liability would suggest that providing the requested information would be in "good faith" but it depends on the claim as originally structured as to what Tek's further responsibilities are (in relation to the "dumb pipe" claims in CTRC rulings).

3rd-hand discussion about the details would suggest that Tek would be released from liability if it disclosed the information as requested without dispute. Though this would be a matter of case law, not legislation (neutral 'dumb pipes' don't dispute requests for data, just provide connection and billing data on court ordered request -- without discussing case mechanics or validity).

said by Arcturus:

...So, Teksavvy should be fighting for our privacy...

As you know privacy in Canada is governed by the Privacy act and a few pieces of related legislation (Electronic Documents act, for example). Per the the regulations enforced by that legislation the request is for Tek to "disclose" to Voltage sufficient enough information to identify the primary infringers--as presented in its copyright lawsuit. That act says nothing about the quality of evidence presented in the source claim or the practices of the entity making the request; only what can or cannot be disclosed and how when a claim is made.

See the issues with the risk of 3rd party Liability above as well. Tek cannot weigh in on the "validity of evidence" (Disputing the disclosure request in this way actually means arguing against Prima Facie) without exposing itself to 3rd Party Liability. That is in Common Law.

Remember, it is co-defendant in a Lawsuit with the 2000 users as a 3rd party (facilitator) there are specific requirements it has to meet as such.

Its hands are tied as expectations are for Tek to comply with its Common Law obligations while honouring the Privacy act. That means if it has conflicting obligations it is outside of the current case to deal with.

No-one is expecting them to show up and fight for people in a piracy case in court. This isn't a piracy case in court. This is a privacy case in court. On if they should release customer information based on flimsy/incorrect evidence. For a company that has shown in the past the abuse such information.

No-one wants Teksavvy to stand up in court and say these customers didn't do X, we want them to stand up in court and point out to the judge that 1. The information Voltage has is a. inaccurate at best, b. not proof of commercial copyright infringement,(the case in my understand was entered as a commercial infringement case against all 2000 IPs) and 2. Point out the history of court abuse Voltage has, and say it is likely this case is going to lead to that same abuse.

Tek Savvy is a 3rd party co-defendant in a copyright infringement (piracy) lawsuit filed by Voltage Pictures, under the most current version of the copyright act. Tek is the identified 3rd party that has sufficient enough information to identify the 2000 who carry the primary liability (secondary privacy issue). If tek discloses this information without disputing any part of the claim (abusive/bad faith/poorly constructed, etc) then it is probably no longer liable.

For them to meet their customer's expectations as you have explained means going after both Voltage's Prima Face (evidence as presented, court history) and Bona Fide (commercial infringement claim, method of data collection, source of data) in open court. US case law would suggest most of the customer issues discussed here are actually closer to Bona Fide then Prima Facie which makes the argument more difficult in a Canadian court. Either way, disputing those is something you deal with in your Statement of Defence.

Filing that that Means Tek is openly defending against the claim levied against it (for its users), or if Voltage listed all 2001 defendant's involved individually... In conjunction with them.

For Tek to actually file anything in court at all (dumb pipe or not) they are potentially exposing themselves to negligence. Because they did not take better precautions to protect their equipment from infringing use (also from the CTRC Rulings).

Its no different in a libel suit where Tek would refuse to provide appropriate IP information of a user who is being accused of libel in an internet posting. In fact, standard procedure for such a situation suggests that you accuse the ISP with 3rd Party Liability in order to force them to comply with disclosing the identity of your John or Jane Doe. Should they comply in the same way as requested here, they are released from the claim with prejudice. Technically as well, the Privacy act requires such a situation before compliant disclosure can be made. That also means the winner could be responsible for an ISP's costs in making that identification.

Though it sounds like Voltage didn't take this approach. More like their argument is that, Tek benefits from heavy data use as profit. Tek heavily advertises unlimited data usage for the purpose of heavy traffic and has designed packages to facilitate this. That is more then enough circumstantial evidence to prove that Tek commercially benefited from its customer's infringement activities.

That is probably why Tek is such a big target for this right now. Its also why CIPPC is involved given the internet buisness culture and the other uniquely Canadian mitigating factors.

go read the new copyright law ISPS are given immunity period.
what your saying is for any reasons anyone can pester a company and sequester information on the customers or employees
FALSE. don't need to be a lawyer to know that ( see privacy law and charter of rights and freedoms for a start , this aint america eh )
teksavvy is NOT a 3rd party to the actions here by the new copyright law they are effectively a transmission , the liability falls on the actions of the individual.

we also have a bc ruling on that based on the fact that linking to infrimging is not illegal its up to the person doing it and they get liability.

the case was wildly heralded as a sane response or tons a websites would go poof and news sites would have been screwed.

THIS IS NOT A LIBEL SUIT
its a commercial copyright infringement lawsuit.
its aim is to say these people profited from the use of someone's creation without authorization or license.

ITS BEEN ( in my opinion ) Wrongly filed as it should be princial matter not federal and small claims action of non commerical infringment. THEN in fact the actual names dont matter to be had also. a judge could have the list and rule and a judgement be passed on to the users. a way to keep privacy there and follow not only the spirit of the law but its intent.

Again TSI didn't read the new copyright law they are given immunity.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Arcturus

said by Arcturus:

That is last part is not in the law, the ISP is responsible regardless if they co-operate or not. There is nothing in the law that abides an infringer of the law because they co-operated to find other infringers.

So, Teksavvy should be fighting for our privacy. (If they lose this case, they could be the ones sued for all 2000 cases). Just as much as any individuals.

Common carriers (Bell, Rogers, Telus, TSI) are NOT held responsible for aiding & betting when a terrorist makes a phone call or sends an e-mail plotting an act of mass destruction. Nor are they held responsible when a gang of bank robbers use cell phones to communicate with one another. Canada Post isn't held responsible when extortion letters are sent by Voltage.

Oh....I forget....we're talking about Hollywood and US interests...... Of course, Bell Rogers, Telus, TSI, Acanac all are accessories to heinous criminal acts of copyright infringement and must be held accountable. Bring on the black helicopters & Seal Team 6.


Good One

@videotron.ca

IP/Copyright Lawyer, Howard Knopf, put up another post that includes Teksavvy.

Basically, it's Predictions for 2013, but he just lays it out w/o making predictions because Teksavvy has the ability to write their own outcome of this whole Voltage affair.

See:

What to Watch for in Canadian Intellectual Property Law in 2013
»www.excesscopyright.blogspot.ca/···-in.html

Here are a few things to look out for this year. These are essentially in the form of questions – for most of which there is no easy answer to predict. So, I’ll refrain from predicting.

COPYRIGHT

The year will no doubt kick off with the Voltage Pictures “mass litigation” campaign. It might be noted that a similar effort by Voltage involving Quebec based ISPs that did not oppose the motion to disclose their clients’ identities fizzled last year for unknown reasons – and with no individuals actually being sued. This time around, some seem to think that Voltage is more determined. Will feisty, progressive Teksavvy, the ISP that has built its reputation on being customer-friendly, actually stand up and fight for its customers’ “privacy” without taking sides on “piracy”? That’s what Shaw and Telus did vigorously and successfully in 2004, with Bell and Rogers onside if not quite as actively. What should/will Teksavvy do if it turns out to be relatively easy for it to challenge the adequacy of Voltage’s material for the motion that seeks disclosure of the names and addresses of potentially thousands of Teksavvy’s customers? The law on this, including the evidentiary concerns that could arise, was clearly laid out in the BMG case by the Federal Court of Appeal in 2005 and the background is all there on CIPPIC’s website. If Voltage’s widely circulated current material is indeed inadequate (upon which I make no comment) and an ISP as savvy as Teksavvy doesn’t challenge its adequacy at the outset, what signal will this send to future potential mass litigators and copyright “trolls”? And to Canadian ISP customers generally and Teksavvy’s customers in particular? What could CIPPIC do if it is permitted to intervene? Is this something that CIPPIC will have to do on a regular basis? What will happen if the names and addresses are eventually provided to Voltage? Will there actually be lawsuits, or will there simply be high pressure settlement demands en masse? To be continued on January 14, 2013 in the Federal Court.


Continues...

He is saying Teksavvy has the ability to write their own future (and history) here.

Now, I think many of us get the feeling that Teksavvy is just moving aside in order to let CIPPIC handle this. But, my faith isn't with CIPPIC, though they bring a lot to the table, as academics.


Arcturus

join:2008-04-18
London, ON
reply to MaynardKrebs

I don't personally think TSI or any carrier should ever be responsible (and I don't believe Canada laws does either), I was discussion with someone who said that was the case, and entertaining that even if it were the case TSI should still be fighting for people's privacy and rights.

As for the person I gave the benefit of the doubt for then assume for some reason TSI is giving out *my* information (as far as I am aware they are not), nor should they be unless it is a mistake (that I would be unable to prove as a mistake).

He told me I should be suing TSI and whatever for giving out my information, only they are not giving out my information! Why on earth would you assume that?!? Oh right if I argue for privacy I'm a child raping, pirating murderer.


funny0

join:2010-12-22

if you read hte copyright law it has network provisions that limit the isps liability and it basically in lamens terms says that if and as long as your not telling people to infringe and say running a torrent site or infringing software that they cant be held liable for we the users actions

also a not long ago case in bc that went to the supreme court sais that also again its up to the users to visit an infringing link as in
no problem to BE a torrent site and post the links to the torrents as they are not the infringing material and its YOU the user that is responsible for your actions. ergo the isp nor a website can be held liable. THATS A SUPREME COURT ruling where someone tried to sue based on someone linking to other content.

i also found bad news ina sense

one little line gave voltage more power to sue for commercial infringement if they can prove profits were made on there stuff.
BUT good news is in the same section as listed the non commercial damages they list the commercial ones.

and its crazy
500-20000 FOR ALL INFRINGEMENTS
voltage cant sue you for 10000 for 3 movies the law does not permit that.
in fact when the new trek comes out you could by the way that is worded go sell 30000 dollars worth turn yourself in and give them 20 grand and walk away laughing

again this is further proof this law should be struck down as that is telling counterfeiters the real harmers the wrong message.

poor folk are cruelly and unusually going to bear the brunt of the force of this law.

now im not a lawyer seek one please, and my views are me also learning as i go too and yea under 14000 income you can get legal aid BUT there are issues when it comes to federal courts and what you can get legal aid FOR. i urge people to check this out

also the small claims courts max was upped 2 january's ago to 25000

also learning that they removed a section that gave federal courts the last say in all matters which is a weird one and i think what they are trying to do is give each province a chance to find its own ways with this law. SO a more conservative province like alberta might go harder on you then , quebec and ontario , primarily a NDP/liberal area.
that part should also be struck down it creates confusion in the law and charter rights usually forbid that and ask for clarity when it comes to a law.

NOW voltage has waived statutory to goto commercial punitive damages so can someone give me
a site to read up on how that all works.

the idea here is to provide at least some knowledge to the users and i think going forward that things like this to help people will mitigate risk and allow us all to better enjoy the larger internet.

it took me an hour t find on google for example the full re-amended full copyright law.
its not nice of a govt to only post the amended bits and i'd argue the charter tells you to make stuff clear , that adds total confusion for any citizen wishing to learn about the laws of our land. I think it is dne on purpose as previous govts did not do that.

Liberals yes would post the changes and then link to the new bill in its entirety.

oh and i bought myself a bluray writer that came with burn software so i can put my own works onto such....funny as heck you need to pay to upgrade to put your own videos on to a disk , basically they shipped me a back up device .....ergo you can burn files but not videos.

Funny thought i'd share that with you all that i prolly will just make videos and such and NOT do any HD stuff and not do dvdr and not do bluray cause of this law ...i actually want people to play with my stuff and enjoy it.

my 2 cents....

oh and one other aspect if some other person uploaded the already cracked dvdr they should not try the anti circumvention bits on anyone ...and marc if ya goto iptv stuff please oh god please dont turn into the big bad wolf on us all and look around for animators and people willing to cheaply make stuff and do a decent quality...

i'd pay for a new thing that has little in league with all thats out there...i'd help it get off the ground as best i could.BUT if you get into iptv are you just a dumb pipe anymore? Will you sue people that download yourstuff? See how it goes....thats a part that it all went wrong with isps....


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to Boop

Regardless of all this, My wallet is speaking and quite loudly i can see a large savings by switching to a different isp and even if they also betray my trust.. until they do i save lots of money P:) teksavvy is no longer Competitively priced.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


jkoblovsky

join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON
kudos:2
reply to Boop

It looks as though the experts think this will turn sour. Have my fingers crossed for Teksavvy customers here. I hope things turn out your way. In any case, here's my latest blog post:

2013 Copyright Predictions Don’t Look Good for Teksavvy Customers

»jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/2013/01···stomers/
--
My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/


Grappler

join:2002-09-01
Ottawa, ON
reply to funny0

said by funny0:

now im not a lawyer seek one please, and my views are me also learning as i go too and yea under 14000 income you can get legal aid BUT there are issues when it comes to federal courts and what you can get legal aid FOR. i urge people to check this out

it took me an hour t find on google for example the full re-amended full copyright law.
its not nice of a govt to only post the amended bits and i'd argue the charter tells you to make stuff clear , that adds total confusion for any citizen wishing to learn about the laws of our land. I think it is dne on purpose as previous govts did not do that.

As you stated you are not a lawyer and the statements you are making are borderline outrageous, at least when you do make a statement provide the link to support that statement:

Legal Aid in Ontario (a provincial matter), income levels cap at $18K gross for a single person. You are incorrect to state that a person can get Legal Aid for under $14K income, you are also incorrect stating there are issues when it comes to Federal Court, if you wish to help then let the people form there own opinions by also directing them to the appropriate source, in this case:

»www.legalaid.on.ca/en/default.asp.

#2 - The government did not just post "amended bits" of the Copyright Act, the full act up to date can be found here:

»laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts···dex.html

And here:

»www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/r···-42.html

Incidentally both links show up on the first page of a Google search.

S25onic

join:2009-11-16
reply to Boop

Am I the only one who isn't going to switch to another ISP?



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by S25onic:

Am I the only one who isn't going to switch to another ISP?

I don't think it's so much against TSI, i think people are sending a message. Can't send half payments to send the message. You can post till your face turns blue on here, and won't send the same message. Leaving an ISP in large numbers, now that sends a pretty good message.

Each to their own, doesn't mean anyone else will protect them but TSI is the target at the present moment. So leaving Teksavvy seems to be their message.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to S25onic

said by S25onic:

Am I the only one who isn't going to switch to another ISP?

I think that if TSI loses face by inaction (or by just tossing their hands up saying, "it's the law nothing we can do"), then yeah. I can see people leaving. After-all, what difference would there be between TSI or distributel who also raised no legal challenge? Or Bell for that matter.

No difference, all the same.

It would be a rather far run from the Rocky-run TSI of the past.

As stated (or rather hinted) by the copyright lawyer a few posts above (Knopf), TSI has an opportunity to write their own history here and live up to their reputation that Rocky created.

quote:
Will feisty, progressive Teksavvy, the ISP that has built its reputation on being customer-friendly, actually stand up and fight for its customers’ “privacy” without taking sides on “piracy”?
-Howard Knopf
»www.excesscopyright.blogspot.ca/···-in.html

So while you won't be the only one not moving, other will be since there is no difference being with Bell or a mini-Bell. All the same.

This is what Teksavvy is now creating by what they have stated and not done since it started. And by letting CIPPIC (which I have no faith in, and which this type lawsuit is basically Geists wet-dream going on) handle it.

Hope they get used to their new reputation while they destroy the old reputation (which has already been done in my eyes 2 years ago anyhow).

But, in personal point of view, it seems like they are just stacking the deck to let Geist (via cippic) have his wet-dream fulfilled and if it fails they are going to come out swinging. If not...

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

1 recommendation

reply to S25onic

said by S25onic:

Am I the only one who isn't going to switch to another ISP?

I won't be.. But I will be in court for all the hearings.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

Regardless of all this, My wallet is speaking and quite loudly i can see a large savings by switching to a different isp and even if they also betray my trust.. until they do i save lots of money P:) teksavvy is no longer Competitively priced.

Where are you finding better prices? Bell/Rogers will happily give you 6 months of good prices before robbing you for the next 18+ months of your contract.

skyR

join:2007-01-14
Toronto, ON

Well, can't speak for Rogers but Bell has that 300gb promotion for new customers, 15/10 300gb for $45 per month for the first nine(?) months (no contract).


The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit

I've never seen that from Bell. On their site the 15/10 offer is $30/month for the first 6 followed by $53/month, and that's only if you buy other Bell services (which do come with contracts, conveniently). 75GB cap, $2/GB after that. Complete garbage, in other words.

Where are they advertising 300GB?



AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
reply to Boop

Yeah and when the honeymoon is over they stick it to ya $ wise and with yearly increases after that in typical BHell style.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to skyR

said by skyR:

Well, can't speak for Rogers but Bell has that 300gb promotion for new customers, 15/10 300gb for $45 per month for the first nine(?) months (no contract).

Thats because its only available for 9 months. Its the student package.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

skyR

join:2007-01-14
Toronto, ON

So what's your point? You can just cancel after nine months if retentions doesn't offer something better.



apvm

join:2003-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1

3 edits
reply to The Mongoose

Check out this thread »New 2013 Price Comparisons Thread

TEKSAVVY
----------------------------------------------
High Speed DSL 25
Up to 25 Mbps Down / 10 Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 8am
Dry Loop Band B $9.10 / month
Sagemcom F@ST 2864 $8.00 / month
52.99/Month w/ 300G CAP

70.09
9.11 HST
79.20 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $95.00
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $19.99
114.99
14.95 HST
129.94 Total install all in

209.14 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
----------------------------------------------

Electronic Box
----------------------------------------------
SpeedLine Extreme 25
Up to 25 Mbps Down / 10 Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 12noon
Dry Loop Band B FREE / month
Sagemcom F@ST 2864 $10.00 / month
55.95/Month w/ 500G CAP

65.99
8.58 HST
74.57 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $49.95
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $0.00
49.95
6.49 HST
56.44 Total install all in

131.01 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
-----------------------------------------------

TEKSAVVY
----------------------------------------------
High Speed DSL 15
Up to 15 Mbps Down / 1Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 8am
Dry Loop Band B $9.10 / month
45.99/Month w/ 300G CAP

55.09
7.16 HST
62.25 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $75.00 ($20 discount currently)
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $19.99
94.99
12.35 HST
107.34 Total install all in

169.59 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
----------------------------------------------

Electronic Box
----------------------------------------------
SpeedLine High Speed 15
Up to 15 Mbps Down / 1Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 12noon
Dry Loop Band B FREE / month
37.95/Month w/ 250G CAP

37.95
4.94 HST
42.88 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $49.95
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $0.00
49.95
6.49 HST
56.44 Total install all in

99.32 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
----------------------------------------------

Tek is 300GB and unlimited from 2am-8am, EB is 250GB unlimited from 2am-12noon. I think EB is geared to steal some market shares.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit

Thanks, nice find. That free dry loop really makes a difference to the monthly costs. Still wouldn't touch it personally because I'm not signing any contracts (EBox seems to make you sign one to get the modem), but I can see the value for those who don't mind them.

Also my TSI 28 cable is still much cheaper (for a no-restrictions plan). $49/month all-in after referral discounts. Very hard deal to walk away from, even for 10 mbps upload.



apvm

join:2003-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1

Just copy and paste from that thread. Not interested in the 25 but tempting for the 15 and last time I checked , doesn't seems to be a contract involved.

In any case, better confirm with EB instead for any questions. Now I hope Tek will response to EB's new pricing.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to AkFubar

said by AkFubar:

Yeah and when the honeymoon is over they stick it to ya $ wise and with yearly increases after that in typical BHell style.

And after 9 months you switch providers. Thus voting with your wallet. Go to who offers the better deal. Bandwidth/speed are important, as important as price.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to apvm

said by apvm:

Check out this thread »New 2013 Price Comparisons Thread

TEKSAVVY
----------------------------------------------
High Speed DSL 25
Up to 25 Mbps Down / 10 Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 8am
Dry Loop Band B $9.10 / month
Sagemcom F@ST 2864 $8.00 / month
52.99/Month w/ 300G CAP

70.09
9.11 HST
79.20 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $95.00
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $19.99
114.99
14.95 HST
129.94 Total install all in

209.14 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
----------------------------------------------

Electronic Box
----------------------------------------------
SpeedLine Extreme 25
Up to 25 Mbps Down / 10 Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 12noon
Dry Loop Band B FREE / month
Sagemcom F@ST 2864 $10.00 / month
55.95/Month w/ 500G CAP

65.99
8.58 HST
74.57 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $49.95
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $0.00
49.95
6.49 HST
56.44 Total install all in

131.01 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
-----------------------------------------------

TEKSAVVY
----------------------------------------------
High Speed DSL 15
Up to 15 Mbps Down / 1Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 8am
Dry Loop Band B $9.10 / month
45.99/Month w/ 300G CAP

55.09
7.16 HST
62.25 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $75.00 ($20 discount currently)
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $19.99
94.99
12.35 HST
107.34 Total install all in

169.59 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
----------------------------------------------

Electronic Box
----------------------------------------------
SpeedLine High Speed 15
Up to 15 Mbps Down / 1Mbps Up
Unlimited Usage between 2am and 12noon
Dry Loop Band B FREE / month
37.95/Month w/ 250G CAP

37.95
4.94 HST
42.88 Total per month all in

High Speed DSL 25 - Start-Up Fee $49.95
Dry DSL Activation - Residential $0.00
49.95
6.49 HST
56.44 Total install all in

99.32 due upon order (install plus 1st month)
----------------------------------------------

Tek is 300GB and unlimited from 2am-8am, EB is 250GB unlimited from 2am-12noon. I think EB is geared to steal some market shares.

If this is the case i'd rather go on contract with TSI and save the money. Contracts aren't an issue for me. As long as price / plan is good

I don't think teksavvy will lower their prices. They were once #1 for competitive pricing... no one could beat them. I'm surprised they are one of the more expensive now. Contract's are no issue for anyone IMHO. Price is good, plan is good... who cares if you're locked in for 12 months, 24 months.

bullwinkle

join:2011-03-19
Nepean, ON
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

And after 9 months you switch providers. Thus voting with your wallet. Go to who offers the better deal. Bandwidth/speed are important, as important as price.

Just make sure to factor in the ancillary costs of switching providers, such as activation fees, having to take time off of work, etc.