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funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to A Lurker

Re: If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

said by A Lurker:

said by morisato:

Dislike the log situation but i KNOW i won;t be getting any emails from any rightsholders Unless they are in error. So i feel good Knowing that i am covered

Sigh... this is what people have been talking about for ages. Let's say you have been notified in error. How much time and money can you afford to spend to prove this? From another thread (my words):

Oddly enough, I think the most vocal people in the threads have not received a letter. I haven't (a-not a TSI customer, b-don't use torrents). However, I know the danger of fishing expeditions like this and hate to think that Voltage could possibly make more money with sending out threatening letters than they did by making movies.

It's been stated over and over, but an innocent person fighting could spend more money than the possible extortion letters could ask for. That's fine for some that can afford to fight, but what about those that can't. Also, any that do pay up just make it more likely they'll do it again, to a larger group.

I've seen a couple of numbers thrown around that says at least 2% of the original people ID'd were incorrect. That doesn't even take into account that some of the IPs may not have been provided correctly in the first place. This is from an ISP that is taking care to make sure those identifications were correct.

Take Rogers, or Cogeco, or Bell... will they be as concerned with getting the identifications correct? If you have an issue with the identification will they be responding promptly to help you. * So, let's see - a million identifications (that's what they claim they have). Could be 20,000 people getting sued under false pretenses. Could be another group that haven't done what they're being accused of... it gets messy.

It's sad really as the media companies likely are spending a fortune to try and stop the process. Research, better licensing, finding a better method to distribute, and everyone might win.

ETA: * sorry I meant to add that ~3 years ago (& 2) I got a notification from Cogeco that definitely wasn't me. A very helpful person in their security department did at least help with an explanation


Adding in, I was lucky that someone at Cogeco looked into it and answered my questions. You think they would be as helpful if a couple of thousand people were asking at once? If you're innocent and they demand say $1000 to drop the suit, could you afford to spend $5000 proving them wrong in court? Remember, as quick as you're ready to throw all people receiving notices as guilty - in front of a judge it's not like a criminal case. They would provide their evidence, your IP/name from TSI, you would say you didn't do it, and it's almost a slam dunk they judge would just assume you're lying.

WRONG if this were properly filed as a non commercial infringment as its under 7 grand poor people can acquire legal aid , then the only people paying are you the tax payers for allowing such retarded copyright laws . THINK OF THAT as PUNISHMENT for being a dumb ass conservative voter.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

lmao!! Yes because customers subsidize the legal bills. This is how you think? You guess that bills should reach $250 a month to pay the lawyers? So your method is, unless you want your bills to skyrocket, don't expect an ISP to do anything on your behalf.

Well because we don't want those bills going up now do we.

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved annually. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

Guess what? Still in business, still offering good prices and we're 17 years strong, thanks.

As i said lawsuits civil wise under 7 grand you can acquire legal aid so , only those well off and those that make a lot a cash will need to buy a lawyer and then the question becomes if your piratign and your weathy you deserve to get sued...the main reasons for file sharing isn't just the aspect of sharing its cause were too poor ....thats number one. that qualifyer on legal aid should cover most people also at min wage....so a huge majority of canucks would be able to retain legal counsel and imagine 2300 lawyers showing up cause voltage wants a class action lawsuit ...yup gonna cost voltage one way or the other...

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

said by elitefx:

said by Tx:

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved yearly. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

All we ever hear is hot air and bullshit. Put your money and expertise where your mouth is. Give Teksavvy a hand. Show them how it's done.

Better yet, why don't YOU mount the legal challenge? You seem to know all about it.

Time to go BIG or go home.............

Anyway, merry christmas dude. Enjoy the time with your family. Have a good day and be safe during the new year

we should start calling this what it is....

economic terrorism. look up both words and see howi mean they apply.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

While some of the people like myself have legitimate concerns The problem remains we are a minority Most folks bitching Have there hands in Cookie jars, that they should not, all in all not the end of the world and yes teksavvy could oppose it on many grounds but at the end of the Day They are not the Police, they are not the privacy commissioner etc.. They are merely a Dumb Pipe to the Net and we the users are responsible for our online actions. Thus we Should be the ones to Defend them and Oppose these types of orders in a court.

you may think your a minority BUT we are a majority of the net users in canada....10 million in march 2006 logged in at same time to a p2p network
back then we had 18 million net accounts by end of that year 24 million net accounts and according to cbc since 2007 we have dropped 3 million net accounts.
the fact is at 6-7 million file sharers thats a full 33% or so of net users....and it would be more and ill bet of those they are looking after another 33% that either dont have time to do it or dont want the risk.
sneaker net stuff.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to funny0

said by funny0:

WRONG if this were properly filed as a non commercial infringment as its under 7 grand poor people can acquire legal aid , then the only people paying are you the tax payers for allowing such retarded copyright laws . THINK OF THAT as PUNISHMENT for being a dumb ass conservative voter.

First, how much should people who don't qualify for legal aid pay to prove their innocence? Should they use up their savings, cash out RRSPs, put a 2nd mortgage on the house?

As for the Liberals, everyone is deluded if you really think they would have done much different. If they gain power in the next election do you really think they'll get rid of anything that the Conservatives do? Ha!!

Chrétien promised to get rid of the GST when he was running in 1993, but never did so when elected. So, I wouldn't believe the Liberals on the copyright issue either. All politicians lie really.

(also, didn't vote for Harper)

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to funny0

I said we the Bitching and Innocent Ie Non file sharers are a minority and You the Sharing type are the majority... Did we not agree? funny? i fail to understand your point unless it is merely to agree with mine?>
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to funny0

Do you even have clue who qualifies for legal aid?

If you earn more than $14,000/year you do NOT qualify. That means you're stuck with duty council when you go to court.

You're better off defending yourself.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein



dingbat123

@teksavvy.com
reply to Boop

»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011···know-it/

Look at that. There is no way they will take each of you to court. They will just send threatening letters for you to pay. All you have to do is refuse to pay. The court won't waste their time with this nonsense. Hope you guys are more relieved now. Merry Christmas.



noemails

@bell.ca

teksavvy shold send gthe 2300 registerd letters in car of the ip address they need to show they mean busines uf viktage thought they had a case they would go aftrt bell and the couple milions customers they have. they didnt cause the bell lawyers would bankrupt them teksavvy needs to tell them to go to hell i find they are boing way too pasive in this situation



AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
reply to Boop

hmmm the OP is pulling a "Cartman"


Arcturus

join:2008-04-18
London, ON
reply to Boop

The facts of the matter is Teksavvy as a company is doing the BARE MINIMUM required by LAW to protect us. (Notification is part of the law).

The other fact of the matter is the CEO of Teksavvy already said all 2000 people served notice are guilty in his mind, so F MARC and F TEKSAVVY.

Switching and no longer recommending it to friends, will figure out where to go or how to react further sometime in the new year. But Teksavvy has lost all respect I once gave them for fighting for our rights.



noemails

@bell.ca
reply to dingbat123

so why did voltage pick on teksavvy...cause they know that bell and rogers have a legal team that vould bankrupt them....in my opinion tek should be talking to bell rogers videotron shaw etc...why would voltage go to rogers or shaw the payoff is a hell of a lot bigger than teksavvy....they are looking for a precident..teksavvy is not handling this correctly


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by noemails :

so why did voltage pick on teksavvy...cause they know that bell and rogers have a legal team that vould bankrupt them....in my opinion tek should be talking to bell rogers videotron shaw etc...why would voltage go to rogers or shaw the payoff is a hell of a lot bigger than teksavvy....they are looking for a precident..teksavvy is not handling this correctly

Do you really think that bell rogers videotron shaw give a flying f!ck about about giving up their client info?

Telus showed some balls a number of years ago in the BMG case, but that was then....who knows if they'd fight again.

Who7

join:2012-12-18

1 edit
reply to noemails

said by noemails :

so why did voltage pick on teksavvy...cause they know that bell and rogers have a legal team that vould bankrupt them....in my opinion tek should be talking to bell rogers videotron shaw etc...why would voltage go to rogers or shaw the payoff is a hell of a lot bigger than teksavvy....they are looking for a precident..teksavvy is not handling this correctly

I'm not so sure that Bell/Robbers/TakeUs would participate. It's more the enemy of my enemy doing them a favor and hurting TSI. After all, they never compete with each other and it's the smaller guys who steal their lunch.

What we must do as consumers is go to the provider who gives us the most protection from the piranha.


noemails

@bell.ca
reply to MaynardKrebs

thats my point your missing it totally

bell or rogers would screw voltage into the ground...if a precedent is set by a judge in this case its going to take all the bell lawyers to tell voltage to f off and get a judge to overturn the previous judges rulling
they picked on the little guy to see what they could get... face it teksavvy has about 6 persont of the clients bell has..why not go where the real money is...cause bell will kill them in the courts



A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

said by noemails :

if a precedent is set by a judge in this case its going to take all the bell lawyers to tell voltage to f off and get a judge to overturn the previous judges rulling
they picked on the little guy to see what they could get... face it teksavvy has about 6 persont of the clients bell has..why not go where the real money is...cause bell will kill them in the courts

Wrong, if precendent is set, Bell will just hand over the info. Although it's possible they might have fought it, more likely that the first people would know about it was when people started getting their extortion letters.

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to Boop

Isn't Bell and Rogers creating content? Why would they have any interest in saving or fighting for those who they would see as possibly sharing their content?

I suspect that picking on TSI was deliberate.



AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Boop

The majors are opposed to filesharing in a major way. We heard it all during the CRTC hearings over bandwidth/caps. Also as mentioned any provider that is providing access to content is most likely opposed to p2p filesharing - once again it's the majors.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.


sourtimes

join:2012-12-16
York, ON

1 recommendation

reply to Boop

This thread is ridiculous. Yes they are a business, they are not a facilitator and advocate of piracy, something that is against the law. Yes these copywrite trolls are bull, but piracy is illegal.

It is asinine to expect your ISP to financially back the cause of you breaking the law on the internet. It is your responsibility to cover your bases. You think Rogers and Bell will ? ?............

Be sensible about what you use the internet for. Teksavvy has my business because they give me unlimited bandwidth for a reasonable price. A hell of a lot more than what the other companies out there do. They are an isp, not my retained counsel. People who got these letters were stupid enough not to play smart.

It is my problem to account for my usage habits. I have a seedbox i use SSL to ftp from and a usenet account I also use SSL for. I suggest everyone else do the same. The $20 combined monthly cost for both is more than reasonable for what it provides.

Get real.


Arcturus

join:2008-04-18
London, ON

said by sourtimes:

This thread is ridiculous. Yes they are a business, they are not a facilitator and advocate of piracy, something that is against the law. Yes these copywrite trolls are bull, but piracy is illegal.

It is asinine to expect your ISP to financially back the cause of you breaking the law on the internet. It is your responsibility to cover your bases. You think Rogers and Bell will ? ?............

We are having a discussion on privacy, and being falsely accused with improper evidence of things that aren't even crimes.

I hope the next person you meet on the street accuses you of rape and you go to jail for 20 years because no-one defends you, as you are obviously guilty.


GeekJedi
RF is Good For You
Premium
join:2001-06-21
Mukwonago, WI

said by Arcturus See Profile
We are having a discussion on privacy, and being falsely accused with improper evidence of things that aren't even crimes.

I hope the next person you meet on the street accuses you of rape and you go to jail for 20 years because no-one defends you, as you are obviously guilty.

Using the analogy here, you should sue the city for not defending you for getting accused of a crime on a city street.

Just sayin'.
--
The goal of the broadcast engineer is to get all the meters on the transmitter to go as far to the right as possible!!

BellACancer

join:2008-06-04
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to sourtimes

said by sourtimes:

This thread is ridiculous. Yes they are a business, they are not a facilitator and advocate of piracy, something that is against the law. Yes these copywrite trolls are bull, but piracy is illegal.

It is asinine to expect your ISP to financially back the cause of you breaking the law on the internet. It is your responsibility to cover your bases. You think Rogers and Bell will ? ?............

Be sensible about what you use the internet for. Teksavvy has my business because they give me unlimited bandwidth for a reasonable price. A hell of a lot more than what the other companies out there do. They are an isp, not my retained counsel. People who got these letters were stupid enough not to play smart.

It is my problem to account for my usage habits. I have a seedbox i use SSL to ftp from and a usenet account I also use SSL for. I suggest everyone else do the same. The $20 combined monthly cost for both is more than reasonable for what it provides.

Get real.

Bud, you get real. Listen to what you're saying for a second. Get your head out of the sand for just one minute.

"Yes they are trolls but piracy is illegal".... Really you had to use a 'but' in that sentence as if piracy is worse then what the trolls are doing? Sure it's illegal, but sometimes they're worse evils to deal with first.

To people like you, it only matters when it's you in the crosshair holding the smoking gun when you did absolutely nothing wrong.

Are this many people really that naive to their internet connections being abused by outside sources? Logs being misread or wrongly notified and someone like Voltage now has your info by mistake? You think they give a damn if it's by mistake, you bet your ass you'll get a pay up or else paper.

You think you're safe because you use SSL ? LOL

I'm just blown away at how naive people truly are about this whole thing. People are so wrapped up in the "OH MY GAWD YOURE DOWNLOADING ILLEGAL SOFTWARE. ITS THE END OF THE WORLD"

lol Get your head out of the sand for a second and do your research bud. You're not as safe as you may think. hundreds of people every month are wrongly accused, but i guess that's ok because it's not you yet. Until it is, well it's the law and piracy is piracy..

Get real.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to BellACancer

said by BellACancer:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.

You said it perfectly. Unfortunately everyone is so far up Teksavvy's butt and defending their decision that he would spit out a laughable $250 increase in our bills to fight a court order??? I was left scratching my head at that. $1 per customer would pay tons. Not to mention each business has a rollover they turn to in times like that.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to BellACancer

said by BellACancer:

Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

LOL.

Clearly you have NO clue how much lawyers charge.
Something like this is in the $500-$1000 per hour range for each lawyer.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to Boop

so you all bicker they should do more, But really I like teksavvys Stance to a degree yes i wish they would do more But do i want my bill to increase Not particularily.. So that leaves me remebering Teksavvy is a DUMB Pipe they provide internet services, Not Identify Theft protection or privacy protection or legal etc.. They provide me a Pipe to do whatever stupid Legal Or Illegal Shit i want on the internet and As with anything, if i do things i shouldn;t i take risks, and yes false positives happen Look at the Killers and such cleared by Dna evidence 20 years later or the ones who get away with it due to flukes Shit happens..

In essence Teksavvy is my dumb pipe, I like that As a dumb pipe they will Provide the info if ordered to , and have given Me the User of said Pipe the Chance to prevent its release if i feel it necessary, Really it all Comes down to that. Perhaps this case will spawn a New Isp, which Charges $5/ More a month and includes No logs/ Minimal 7 day ip logs and Promises to legally fight court orders etc.. Could be a New Market. Hrmm Maybe i need to start a ISP!
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

reply to Tx

said by Tx:

You said it perfectly. Unfortunately everyone is so far up Teksavvy's butt and defending their decision that he would spit out a laughable $250 increase in our bills to fight a court order??? I was left scratching my head at that. $1 per customer would pay tons. Not to mention each business has a rollover they turn to in times like that.

If they increased fees by $1 a month on every customer, they'd have tons of people on these boards calling them fascist Bell/Rogers clones, and threatening to leave. Kind of like what happens every time TSI does (or doesn't do) anything.

Personally, I'd stay if they increased fees by $1, but I'd still oppose it. TSI's lawyers have told them what to do and they're doing it. People don't have to like it, but the constant threats to leave are edging into the realm of the tragically comic.


spock

join:2012-07-08
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

I think every one should just sit back and see how all sides play this. Threatening to leave tsi over this one case is stupid. If I was one of the few that got letters I would just ignore all threats from voltage. I really doubt they would take this court individually. They are fishing for money.


Who7

join:2012-12-18

1 edit
reply to sourtimes

said by sourtimes:

This thread is ridiculous. Yes they are a business, they are not a facilitator and advocate of piracy, something that is against the law. Yes these copywrite trolls are bull, but piracy is illegal.

It is asinine to expect your ISP to financially back the cause of you breaking the law on the internet. It is your responsibility to cover your bases. You think Rogers and Bell will ? ?............

Be sensible about what you use the internet for. Teksavvy has my business because they give me unlimited bandwidth for a reasonable price. A hell of a lot more than what the other companies out there do. They are an isp, not my retained counsel. People who got these letters were stupid enough not to play smart.

It is my problem to account for my usage habits. I have a seedbox i use SSL to ftp from and a usenet account I also use SSL for. I suggest everyone else do the same. The $20 combined monthly cost for both is more than reasonable for what it provides.

Get real.

Would you like a link on how to break into your WIFI? It's a complete video course and you can learn how too at your pleasure. Thousands if not tens of thousands already have. Every pedo is probably an expert on it.

Or how about being accused in error?

Do you know what time you logged on and off 7 weeks ago?

Here is the problem with all this, it's not a criminal matter so all the accuser has to provide is "reasonable" evidence. Good luck with the legal costs trying to prove it unreasonable. I bet you will find that paying them $1000 to be cheaper then fighting.

So before you start on a holier then "thou evil downloaders", there is more to it. As for TSI. if they retain three month records and the next IP I go to is a week or less, then I'm going to thank you for being the low hanging fruit.

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to spock

said by spock:

I think every one should just sit back and see how all sides play this. Threatening to leave tsi over this one case is stupid. If I was one of the few that got letters I would just ignore all threats from voltage. I really doubt they would take this court individually. They are fishing for money.

I agree on waiting to see what happens.

As for ignoring it, it's not an option. In fact, if you do, you will find that you will be knee deep in with a collection agency and they LOVE people that initially ignore them. They were harassing us over a relatives debt and I actually had to pay a lawyer to stop it.

You will be amazed how quickly this can turn into an industry.