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Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium Member
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON

Tx to BellACancer

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to BellACancer

Re: If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

said by BellACancer:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.

You said it perfectly. Unfortunately everyone is so far up Teksavvy's butt and defending their decision that he would spit out a laughable $250 increase in our bills to fight a court order??? I was left scratching my head at that. $1 per customer would pay tons. Not to mention each business has a rollover they turn to in times like that.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to BellACancer

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to BellACancer
said by BellACancer:

Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

LOL.

Clearly you have NO clue how much lawyers charge.
Something like this is in the $500-$1000 per hour range for each lawyer.
The Mongoose
join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

The Mongoose to Tx

Member

to Tx
said by Tx:

You said it perfectly. Unfortunately everyone is so far up Teksavvy's butt and defending their decision that he would spit out a laughable $250 increase in our bills to fight a court order??? I was left scratching my head at that. $1 per customer would pay tons. Not to mention each business has a rollover they turn to in times like that.

If they increased fees by $1 a month on every customer, they'd have tons of people on these boards calling them fascist Bell/Rogers clones, and threatening to leave. Kind of like what happens every time TSI does (or doesn't do) anything.

Personally, I'd stay if they increased fees by $1, but I'd still oppose it. TSI's lawyers have told them what to do and they're doing it. People don't have to like it, but the constant threats to leave are edging into the realm of the tragically comic.

spock8
join:2012-07-08

spock8

Member

I think every one should just sit back and see how all sides play this. Threatening to leave tsi over this one case is stupid. If I was one of the few that got letters I would just ignore all threats from voltage. I really doubt they would take this court individually. They are fishing for money.
Who7
join:2012-12-18

Who7

Member

said by spock8:

I think every one should just sit back and see how all sides play this. Threatening to leave tsi over this one case is stupid. If I was one of the few that got letters I would just ignore all threats from voltage. I really doubt they would take this court individually. They are fishing for money.

I agree on waiting to see what happens.

As for ignoring it, it's not an option. In fact, if you do, you will find that you will be knee deep in with a collection agency and they LOVE people that initially ignore them. They were harassing us over a relatives debt and I actually had to pay a lawyer to stop it.

You will be amazed how quickly this can turn into an industry.

AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

AkFubar to BellACancer

Member

to BellACancer
said by BellACancer:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.

The last time TSI increased prices by $2.00 the whining on here went on for a about a month so I don't think people want their payments to go up by a $1.00 either.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron to Who7

Premium Member

to Who7
said by Who7:

As for ignoring it, it's not an option. In fact, if you do, you will find that you will be knee deep in with a collection agency and they LOVE people that initially ignore them. They were harassing us over a relatives debt and I actually had to pay a lawyer to stop it.

You will be amazed how quickly this can turn into an industry.

There's a difference between not responding to an extortion letter and not showing up for court.

You ignoring Voltage's intitial letter isn't going to get you into collections unless you miss court and a judgement is issued in your absence, at which point, the plaintiff my seek assistance from a collection agency to collect his or her judgement.
cowwoc
join:2007-05-19
Saint-Laurent, QC

cowwoc to Fuzzy285

Member

to Fuzzy285
said by Fuzzy285:

People think they'll get away with only a $100 fine. Not true, once served they MUST file a defense, and that costs money. Only after you defend yourself will Voltage offer any form of settlement or choose to discontinue.

I've read in a couple of places that because the penalty is capped at $5000 that the suing company must go to small claims court. If that is indeed the case, it won't cover the defendant much of anything.

The question remains: is the suing company allowed to bring this to a normal court? Or are they required to bring it to small-claims court?

Thanks,
Gili
FatBastid
join:2012-12-27
Toronto, ON

FatBastid

Member

You can't. Small Claims only allows payments of money or return of personal property, which are not the remedies being sought by Voltage (statutory damages + punitive damages + a declaration from defendants), you'd have to respond to their claim and quash those portions before asking that it be moved to Small Claims, but by then the federal court judge might as well rule on the merit of the rest of the claim. They need to rewrite the law to allow respondants to file a simple defense saying that in the absence of proof of commercial infringement that those portions of the claim should be denied and that the venue should be moved to Small Claims regarding the balance of the claim. That would definitely take the wind off the sails of the trolls.
cowwoc
join:2007-05-19
Saint-Laurent, QC

cowwoc

Member

said by FatBastid:

You can't. Small Claims only allows payments of money or return of personal property, which are not the remedies being sought by Voltage (statutory damages + punitive damages + a declaration from defendants), you'd have to respond to their claim and quash those portions before asking that it be moved to Small Claims, but by then the federal court judge might as well rule on the merit of the rest of the claim. They need to rewrite the law to allow respondants to file a simple defense saying that in the absence of proof of commercial infringement that those portions of the claim should be denied and that the venue should be moved to Small Claims regarding the balance of the claim. That would definitely take the wind off the sails of the trolls.

Okay. So what happens if you opt to represent yourself in court? Do individuals really run the risk of a judge labeling such infringement as commercial without any proof?

Alternatively, couldn't the plaintiffs opt to use the same law firm in exchange for lower hourly fees? This would be similar to a class-action lawsuit but in reverse.

Gili
funny0
join:2010-12-22

funny0 to koreyb

Member

to koreyb
said by koreyb:

Bye cause no ISP will fight it if ordered by the court. Good luck. Best to cancel and don't have the internet at all. The facts are the laws in Canada on copyright have changed... Teksavvy has not handed over any info yet but asked the court to rule if they should. Teksavvy if ordered to hand the info has no legal right to refuse and if they do they can be sued. The laws have changed and fighting against it at this point is pointless. The judge will rule based on the current new Canadian laws. All isps are the same.. And have Min required log retention requirements set by the new laws

ummmm they aint been ordered to do anyhitng but they have an agreement already that to warn you all they wont oppose tossing your names , addresses and other data about you to them....
perhaps a class action lawsuit for misrepresentation on voltage and slander and defamation of character might be in order.

no commerical infringment took place that can be proved
calling thusly a person a thief and criminal is unjust and the pain and suffering one ahs to go through is also unjust.

an injunction in mean time on any extortionist activities until the counter suit can be fully heard and have all 2300 people show up in court.
ALL ....lets see if voltage can afford that or have its own settlement shoved at it.
funny0

funny0 to Tx

Member

to Tx
said by Tx:

said by funny0:

marc did answer that as did one of his techs and i agree that for loads a reasons you need some time to make sure that if crap happens then you can get to it faster however 3 months is excessive and ill add anythng past a month should be tossed no reason ohter hten your info gathering ....did you pay me for stats gathering? NO then don't do it unless you get me a reduction in cost. im cheap lets make a deal. its my data of my habits.

Absolutely agree... ideally i'd like to see an ISP with 14 days. It's a good diagnostic time, but 30 days as you said would be fair.

Marc i know answered it and that's the issue is that koreyb keeps saying there is a minimum by law which is false and curious where he is getting his info.

He's been asked by a few people now.

i checke dup on that min law stuff and had vic toews got his way that was a part of it. and it might be why a lot of isps started keeping longer laws not thinking that law would get the boot. NOW you have voltage taking advantage of it before possibly people get smart and start dropping more logs.

HERES my question then if i run a network and you get my ip , does that mean i show up prove i have a network and then tell you to screw off? playing the isp card cause i dont keep any logs?

haha they say they get protection under new law then people running home networks would too then....where is that section of law lets look at it.
funny0

funny0 to BellACancer

Member

to BellACancer
said by BellACancer:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.

i would