Canadian Broadband → Re: Info: Length of time Canadian ISPs retain IP address logs

I've seen people say this in the teksavvy forum... that is, they will sue.

It's all blabbing.

Canadian courts, especially those in Ontario, have already shot down lawsuits in relation to privacy if they can't show any actual and real harm. You can see this on both Privcom and Geists site, a well as google these things.

A privacy breach alone gets you nothing. Zip. Nadda. This isn't the states where a privacy breach lands you a million dollars. Here in Canada you get zero and the case tossed.

But it does make me wonder if getting the voltage extortion letter, or being brought to court and sued by voltage and if you are deemed innocent of this copyright crime, if this would be considered "harm".

There would definitely be real financial harm and mental/physical/emotional/family harm in all that. And you would have to show this and prove it, or you get nothing. That's the way the courts here work in regards to privacy breaches, to date.

I'd have to mostly agree on a single case, however if 2000 cases flooded the court all at once, there might be a different story. But alas, maybe filing suit would not be the way to go, maybe lodging 2000 complaints with the privacy commissioner for violation of PIPEDA (which this is, BTW) would be the better avenue. There has to be something that can be done. If Teksavvy, who claims to hold their customers privacy near and dear, cannot even follow a few simple guidelines laid out in PIPEDA, either that or are choosing to ignore them, then there must be a way to hold them accountable.

As per the guidelines, a company that is requesting the information has to have an intent to sue. The sheer number of cases here (2000) shows immediately that Voltage has no intention of suing all 2000 account holders. The costs of lawyers, investigators, etc for 2000 cases would damn near bankrupt a small company such as Voltage. They do not have the right to the information.

In order to request this information they have to have to show proof that they are asking for the correct person's private information. It has already been shown that Voltage's IP information is incorrect and flawed.

Just on these 2 accounts alone, the request for the information should be turned down and staunchly refused. It is Teksavvy's duty, bound by PIPEDA, to scrutinize, challenge and, if necessary, fight against any request for customer's private information if the conditions laid out in PIPEDA are not met, regardless of the source of the request.

While Marc has always seemed to be genuine on these forums and willing to help out anyone who needs it, the spin he using saying that it is not his duty to fight on the customers behalf in this type of lawsuit, is almost laughable. No one is asking him to fight a copyright infringement case on their behalf. We haven't even gotten to that point yet. It is his duty to protect his customers privacy as outlined in PIPEDA and he has a responsibility, actually he is legally bound to fight for his customers on that front.

So Marc, and any other ISP out there reading this, this case at this point is not about piracy just yet, it is about PRIVACY. If you truly do care about your customers PRIVACY, and don't want them leaving in droves, I would suggest that today, you get your lawyer into court and challenge this nonsense request for information and fight it every step of the way. If an appeal is needed on the original court order to over-turn it, then that is what you are obligated to do for not only the good of your customers but also for the good or your company and it's reputation.

I guess the question is does Teksavvy want to retain it's image as a customer-focused and driven company or does it want to forever be known as the company that had an obligation to defend it's customer's privacy but didn't follow through?

THAT is the reason I took rocca to the woodshed. He thinks that it's about "downloading" and "concealment", where in fact, my argument from day one was to minimize the time trolls can, well, TROLL.

There is no legal limit of how long logs can be kept so there is no legal argument.

There are ISP who simply time roll their customers usage. It can be done for ANY period. PERIOD. The most that can arise is some argument of usage, not exactly a huge issues when they are offering train loads of capacity.

Then there is the dubious and self righteous claim of "social responsibility". Which make those who don't keep records irresponsible?

At least we didn't hear the "doing it for the kittens" argument.

Bottom line, just another CEO who talks the game......but doesn't walk.