I just succeeded in upgrading relatives in San Antonio, TX to the Time Warner 30mbps/5mbps "extreme" internet + voice and in the process have IPV6 working well! I wanted to pass along some details and tips for anybody else working their way through this conversion to IPV6 and faster DOCSIS 3.0 internet. I'm posting this as a separate topic rather than in another IPV6 thread I see so as not to hijack that thread with my ramblings here.
The existing TM602G cable modem (with voice service) was a DOCSIS 2.0 modem while the new TG852G supplied by Time Warner today is DOCSIS 3.0 capable. So this is a DOCSIS 2.0 to 3.0 upgrade along with moving from IPV4 single stack to IPV6/IPV4 dual stack internet service. From my phone chats and in-person interactions over the past few days the various Time Warner people in general had no idea about the details on how any of this works, or how it all hooks together, so another reason some details here may be helpful. You will essentially be on your own to get it all working properly. In fairness to the TW people they were all very nice and tried extremely hard to be helpful, they just obviously had next to zero training from TW in the nitty gritty technical details of all this.
The existing system was a TW Arris TM602G cable modem feeding a D-link DIR655 NAT router with wireless/wireline for the internet, and feeding voice phones. The DIR655 is a several years old V 1.0 that does not support IPV6. This is one of TW's "triple play" digital TV / voice / internet package. The internet was all IPV4 ruuning at 20mbps down and 2mbps up (their "turbo" internet package). The incoming WAN port on the DIR655 from the 602G was the typical X.X.0.X subnet. The DIR655 was configured for a X.X.8.X subnet. The lower half of the LAN address space to .100 was static, with the upper .101 on DHCP.
The TW sales person on the phone didn't know the TM602G was only DOCSIS 2.0, nor did it show up in their system as needing to be changed, and it wasn't until I brought it up they researched and found the swap to the DOCSIS 3.0 Arris TG852G was necessary. So first thing, make sure you specially ask for a DOCSIS 3.0 modem if doing this upgrade. Second thing, you can get some REALLY good package deals right now! The existing system was their $99 basic triple-play (voice/TV/internet) package in this market with non-DVR Cisco 4742 boxes (see my other thread for the problem with these fighting with Samsung boxes). By going up just $20 to their $119 package it added a HD DVR (Cisco 8642 which did play nice with the 4742s) and bumped up the internet from 20/2 (docsis 2.0) to 30/5 (docsis 3.0). First thing I did when I got it all working was a speakeasy speed test on the internet connection. Sure enough, 31mbps down, 5.2mbps upstream. exactly as advertised.
Next thing I discovered on unwrapping the TG852G that I picked up at the local office was no battery installed in the bottom. The TM602G had a 8.4V 2200mAhr lithium cell to keep the phones alive during power failures. Looked it up online and found the TG852 uses a 8.4V 2600mAhr, slightly more capacity. I asked at the local office and when I mentioned it was needed to keep the voice circuit alive in a power failure was told that "your home phones WILL NOT work when there is a power failure. The battery is just there to power alarm circuits and is not included". Aarrgghh. But they said the old battery work work in the new modem and let me keep it. The 2200mAhr did fit. I later asked the same question to TW phone support and got the correct answer, that the battery IS still expected to keep the voice phone alive, but still no offer of a new battery. I see the 2600mAhr cell is available for purchase online at various stores.
Next up was configuring the modem. 192.168.0.1 gets you in, as is typical, with user=admin and password=password. Obviously the next thing to do here is change the password! Use at least 16 characters, of course. The WAN parameters are left alone, set up as default for DHCP on TW's end, which is correct. For the LAN I set it up for my prefered .8 subnet, with half static and half DHCP.
One potential gotcha here to be aware of. Under no circumstances turn on the DNS relay service! I have lost probably a week of my life collectively over the years debugging problems in commercial systems related to the DNS relay not working correctly in consumer client routers on the receiving end. Internal buffers fill up and overflow in some consumer routers over the past few years. Turn the feature off and instead enter the TW DNS primary and secondary DNS server IPs directly in the client computer networking settings. The TW DNS server IPs show up on the TG852G router status page. In addition I usually interleave these with two more from OpenDNS. So TWpri, ODNSpri, TWsec, ODNSsec. That way if TW's connection to their DNS goes down it flips over to open DNS and keeps you going. Who knows, maybe DNS relay works fine in the TG852G, but I've seen it broken in so many other consumer routers, and it causes such weird problems when it stops working, that I just would advise not going there.
But looking through the setup screens the next thing that became evident is the TG852G is, in fact, a NAT router with stateful firewall! And it is a wireless router supporting B/G/N. At this point I start thinking it may be able to replace the DIR655 getting things down to just one box, this cable modem / NAT-router / wireless access point. I look up the specs and the TG852G has 4 10/100/1000 ports just like the DIR655. Two phone ports like the old TM602G. So unhook the DIR655, move the ethernet cables over, and set up the wireless with a SSID, key, and WPA2/AES. Great!
Well, not so great in practice. The wireline internet works fine at all the computers (still IPV4 at this point), but the N wireless signal is just a tiny shadow of its previous self with the DIR655 when I try at some areas 2 rooms away in various directions. The wireless power level setting in the TG852G is set to "high" for all this. I was wondering how well the TG852G would do without the 3 external antennas on the DIR655. The answer is "not well".
So at this point I decide to use the DIR655 just as a firewall + wireless access point. I re-configure it for the .9 subnet (192.168.9.x) on the LAN. I kind of like the idea of a separate firewall and NAT router (the DIR655) between the wireline firewall and NAT router (the TG852G) anyway. The DIR655's WAN is left at DHCP to pick up one of the .8 subnet DHCP addresses when plugged into one of the TG852G LAN ports (I actually have one port feeding a 8 port 10/100/1000 switch to make more ports).
This all works great and once again the wireless is up and running with the DIR655 fed by the TG852G. The wireline LAN ports on the DIR655 are unused now, of course. All wireline stuff is plugged into the TG852G, which will become important for IPV6, below. The one gotcha here is having to do the re-configure of the DIR655 offline, plugged into a laptop set up for the .8 subnet, to switch over to .9 subnet before plugging into the TG852G.
Then, with the IPv4 stuff all working now, I finally get to the IPV6. First I notice in the TG852G status screen that the incoming WAN IP and outgoing LAN IPs are both shown as dual stack addresses (IPV4 AND IPV6 together) in the form XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX / 2001:0db8:85a3:0042:1000:8a2e:0370:7334 (for format example). So that is the first clue that the incoming internet feed actually is being sent dual stack!
Next is turning IPV6 on in the computers which are all running Windows 7 Pro. I had specifically disabled IPV6 in the Windows networking a couple of years ago since I knew there was no chance of an IPV6 feed on the WAN or local LAN and the DIR655 router was only IPv4. In the Win7 network adapter settings for the ethernet chip or card, check (or re-check) the "internet protocol version 6" item in the list. If you haven't messed with this, I believe that Microsoft defaults it to "on", so your IPV6 may already be enabled. Then say "OK" to save, go back into the adapter settings, and go to the chip or card configure button. On the "advanced" tab turn on any IPV6 offloads the chip may have to speed things up. Then save.
Close any browsers then restart a browser. If you are using Firefox, go to the extensions and install a new one called "4or6" which will show you if any given site is using IPV4 or IPV6. Then give it a try! Type in ipv6.cnn.com. That should come up with cnn's home page via IPV6 feed. Then, in Firefox, type "cat" into the Google search box and do a search. Click on "images" and you'll see the 4or6 indicator flip to (IPV)6. Then click on any of the feline photos. Most are served up preferentially on IPV6. Google also has an IPv6 version at ipv6.google.com to try.
An ipv6 test is at ipv6-test.com. This comes up with:
"When both protocols are available, your browser uses IPv6"
Your internet connection is IPv6 capable [edit: gives the exact ipv6 address here] Road Runner [United States] Address type is Global Unicast / Native IPv6
Your internet connection is IPv4 capable [edit: gives the exact ipv4 address here] Road Runner HoldCo LLC
So dual-stack IPV6 / IPV4 service from Time Warner is confirmed! Success.
Google is keeping worldwide IPV6 adoption statistics at
Click on the "per-country IPv6 adoption" tab, then click on the graphic of the US, and it comes up with 2.21% adoption right now (December 26, 2012). So the relatives are in the 2% now. Romania seems to be the leader in IPv6 adoption at 8.78%. France is the other major player at 5.07%.
The 4to6 extension in Firefox lists both parts of the dual-stack IPv4/IPv6 addresses both locally and for the remote system. A lot of the youtube videos will show up as dual-stack, since Google owns youtube, and preferentially stream as IPv6 in Firefox.
Here is one of Adele at the Royal Albert Hall. The dual stack remote addresses at youtube are given as:
Name = www.youtube.com IPv4 = 126.96.36.199,188.8.131.52,184.108.40.206,220.127.116.11,18.104.22.168,22.214.171.124,126.96.36.199,188.8.131.52,184.108.40.206,220.127.116.11,18.104.22.168 IPv6 = 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::be
In Windows 7 trace route (tracert in an admin command window) will work with IPv6 addresses as well as IPv4. Doing a traceroute on that 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::be IPv6 address gives a full IPv6 trace back to the youtube servers.
Here is Google's announcement of adding IPv6 to YouTube from back in 2009:
And some more interesting IPv6 stuff. Even though the (IPv4) speed tests on the line come up a solid 30/5 mbps, the IPv6 speed test at two different testing sites comes up around 14/1. Apparently the advertised line speed is for IPv4, which probably makes sense.
Even so, video so far is vastly better when linked up with IPv6, in terms of reduced (about zero) hangs, drop-outs, stalls, freezes, and other symptoms of stalled delivery emptying the player buffer. I suspect this is more due to lack of competing traffic over the IPv6 path rather than actual usage of the IPv6 QoS features at this stage of the game.
Address type is Global Unicast / Native IPv6 per site link TWC in Man'h looks to be working w/ ARRIS DOCSIS 3.0 and defaults network w/ Win 8 x64 Pro. All lights green. Weeks back the upstream light was orange which still said to be ok with Turbo 20/2. Then had 2 day nabe outage and came back up all green.
Glad to hear that you got it working, but won't TWC be doing the changeover to ipv6 automatically in the future? Why do it now? -- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Sir Winston Churchill
Here is some more IPv6 stuff. One of the VPN providers that I use, Swiss VPN in Zurich, is set up for dual stack IP4/IP6 service. Tried it today with the Time Warner IPv6 circuit and it works fine. The only trick is again having to check "enabled" for the IPv6 protocol in the Windows 7 VPN "networking" tab for that provider, if it was disabled. In this case only PPTP is supported for IPv6 by the VPN company, not SSTP.
lol - CNN & Google the hard way (ipv6.cnn.com, ipv6.google.com). USA to Switzerland, then back to the US, all with IPv6 routing the whole way.
sludgehound - that is interesting! I'm getting the green downstream and orange up. The TG852G manual says both colors are "OK", but I suspect that green is "more" OK by some measure. I'm guessing the for downstream green means all 4 channels successfully bonded. No idea what the colors would mean for upstream though.
whfsdude - thanks, I may give that a try.
juilinsandar - true, probably no pressing motivation right now to make the switch to IPv6. In my case it was just a by-product of the upgrade to the faster 30/5 TW "extreme" internet when they happened to hand out the IPv6-enabled TG852G. I probably would not have advised the relatives to fork out for the new IPv6 enabled version of the DIR655, or other IPv6 router, if that was going to be the only benefit.
The main reason for IPv6 is the world running out of IPv4 addresses, of course. Two IPv4 address pools were exhausted last year and one this year:
But for the big ISPs like TW their allocated IPv4 blocks will probably last a while yet before they actually run completely out and are forced to use IPv6 for new subscribers. The existing subscribers with IPv4 will probably have that for a long time until their next cable modem upgrade. The dual-stack service TW is providing now, where customers receive both a IPv4 and IPv6 IP, helps ease the transition.
A secondary reason for using IPv6 is the possibility of better quality service for some types of data since IPv6 allows for prioritization levels. NAT is theoretically not going to be needed either with IPv6 since there are plenty of addresses. However a somewhat messy NAT for IPv6 has apparently been devised if someone really wants to implement it.
8k UHDTV streaming test of the TW 14/1 IPv6, 30/5 IPv4 circuit
To test out the Time Warner 30/5 mbps connection on something more real than a speed test, I just ran a 8k ultra high definition TV streaming test video on youtube which resulted in a roughly 12mbps/0.5mbps continuous IPv6 stream:
For anyone who hasn't tried it yet, in addition to the standard HDTV top end of 1080p, youtube allows the two flavors of ultra high definition TV (UHDTV), 4K and 8K. For both video types, above the "1080p" speed on the video quality list in the player, it will have "original". Click that "original" word to get the 4k or 8k. Resolutions of both are here
To monitor the steaming rate, in addition to right click->show video info in Windows Media Player, I'm using the Networx bandwidth monitor. Since a single standard PC monitor can't display full 4k or 8k resolution I have inserted a dual-head video card in the PC setup to display the video across two side by side screens, effectively doubling the horizontal resolution. The PC is a 4 core, 8 thread Intel core i7 unit which hit about 80% on all 8 processing threads during the video playback.
The test happened preferentially over IPv6, too! Youtube is set up for IPv6, as per the above posts, and the browser will send as much of the traffic as it can preferentially down the IPv6 path if bandwidth is available. The 8k playback ran downstream around 12mbps and upstream at about 500kbps, so it apparently rarely, if ever, exceeded the 14/1 IPv6 bandwidth on the 30/5 IPv4 TW circuit.
Also, I've realized that I left out some TG852G modem/router IPv6 configuration details in my first post in case anyone winds up following along in the future to set up theirs.
On the WAN connection, since the internet is being sent dual stack, there is both a traditional IPv4 static/dynamic choice and selection screen AND a separate IPv6 static/dynamic screen. The tabs on the left of the TG852 config screen bring up the various option screens. In the case of the local Time Warner both the IPv4 WAN and the IPv6 WAN are dynamic and defaulted that way out of the box, so nothing needed to be altered here.
Similarly for the LAN there is both the traditional IPv4 section where the static and dynamic ranges can be set up and DHCP enabled, plus a similar section for IPv6 LAN. In the case of IPv6 LAN I enabled address pools and specified a address pool range. Here is a router pdf from Netgear that explains IPv6 address pools on page 11:
Re: [TWC] 30/5 IPV6 Arris TG852G working! From TM602G + DIR655 I
What is the real /32 (the first two groups of numbers)? In case you are worried about security of saying it for some-odd reason, a /32 contains 2^96 addresses... nobody is gonna bother trying to find you in that number of addresses.
I wanted to post a follow-up now that I've had several days experience with the connection.
The faster 30/5 speed using the IPv4 address really shows up over the lower IPv6 14/1 address in the dual-stack service. Using the IPv6 path I've now had many videos and web pages show all the classic symptoms of a connection that is too slow. But never when the IPv6 is shut off in Windows Networking to force use of the IPv4 address. The 30/5 service really flies.
I've also discovered that IPv6 breaks AVG anti-virus updates. Turns out that AVG is using unused records in their DNS entry on the DNS servers to store the version number of the latest database and program updates. That way the AVG program only has to check DNS to see if it is current, reducing load on AVG's servers. But that information apparently isn't stored in IPv6 DNS servers and results in a DNS error in the Windows System Log. The solution is to turn off the feature "Use DNS updates" in the AVG advanced control panel. That forces the program to go back to the company's servers for updates.
So I now have IPv6 disabled on all the Windows computers until such time as Time Warner starts delivering it with the same 30/5 speed as the IPv4 path.
Still quite happy with the Arris TG852G, through! The old battery that TW let me keep from the previous Arris modem died the next day (battery light went off) after inserting it into the TG852G. That is how I learned that the modem is doing periodic battery tests, just like a UPS does. Those show up in the modem log. The old 602G apparently didn't do battery tests and the battery had been dead for some time. I found a replacement on the net for $20 which is working well.
Why won't you answer my question? 2001:0db8::/32 is reserved for documentation, so it's not a real address. Look, I'll even tell you mine, it's 2001:0470::/32. Yes it's a he.net tunnel and no, I'm not worried that anyone knows that. There is a higher chance of me being targeted at random than by someone going through all those addresses to try to find the ones I'm using. I just wanted to know what prefixes TWC are actually using for consumers.
Apparently the advertised line speed is for IPv4, which probably makes sense.
The advertised line speed is for your LINE. Your available bandwidth OUTSIDE TWC's network is beyond TWC's control. IPv6 traffic tends to suck universally because so much of it is tunneled -- and too many idiots set it up with the *minimum* mandated MTU (1280) which decreases throughput by increasing per-packet overhead. Too often ISPs treat v6 as an independent network... dedicated (small) links, isolated peering, etc. (the 100G links used for slinging v4 around aren't carrying v6)
It's all marketing smoke-n-mirrors so they can claim "we support IPv6". A T1 to a tunnel broker is not "support". Until you have v6 running EVERYWHERE v4 is -- same routers, same links, "same same" -- then you're just jerking everyone around.
[Note: I disabled IPv6 in my network(s) months ago due to android devices having ZERO IPv6 configuration options. They are slow as shit trying to do anything via IPv6. It's most noticeable with Google Play... so much for Google's IPv6 push.]
Do you happen to notice in any of the menues if that router/gateway functions can be disabled? I'm hoping I could get this modem for the IPv6 option, but hand off the IPv4 stack to the WRT54GL - or even both IPv4/IPv6 stuff. I'm just not keen to having the modem handling that stuff.
In other words - can this modem be put into "bridge" mode?