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sanc5

join:2012-12-13
Mississauga, ON

1 recommendation

What I would do if Voltage has my IP Address

Disclaimer:
This is not meant to be an advice to anyone. What follows applies only, as the case may be, to my personal circumstances and understanding of the ongoing Teksavvy/Voltage drama which is being passionately discussed and debated in these forums.... no more, no less. Whatever you intend to do must be based on your own understanding of the gravity of the unfolding events and your personal circumstances. Fair enough, I supposed.

Backgrounder:
. Teksavvy agreed not to oppose the motion to disclose if Voltage will delay filing the motion in court. The agreement allowed Teksavvy to notify all affected 2000+ subscribers and advise them to seek legal counsel on their own.
. On Dec 17. 2012 Teksavvy and Voltage squared off in court. Teksavvy requested postponement in order to correct errors in identifying and alerting affected subscribers. The Judge granted the request and re-scheduled hearing on January 14, 2013.
. CIPPIC filed a letter to the court requesting intention to intervene and to seek postponement as well. The judge read the letter but did not allow CIPPIC counsel to participate.

Going Forward:
On Jan. 14, (unless they have an ace up their sleeve), Teksavvy is obliged to declare in court (under oath?) that, every error has been corrected and everyone affected has been notified and advised accordingly. Their legal obligation is now fulfilled. The judge at this time may be inclined to issue a ruling based solely on the TSI/Voltage pre-hearing agreement and grant the requested court order. Who knows. Without any 3rd party intervening and challenging the motion to disclose could result in unanimous victory for Voltage. Voltage will conceivably be in possession of personal information of 2000+ TSI customers. Guilty or not, anyone can be sued or threaten to settle for whatever amount profitable to them. Scary thought, indeed.

This is where:
I hope the judge will allow CIPPIC to intervene and argue vigorously on Jan 14. The troll train has already left the station, but temporarily derailed. With CIPPIC and other affected parties participating in opposing the motion to disclose, the train can be prevented from ever starting again.

That is why:
The moment I learn that my name is on the hit list, I would consult a lawyer right away. I would direct my lawyer to these forums and other sites. Together we will gather ideas/strategies how to proceed and oppose TSI/ Voltage from having personal information released on Jan 14, 2013 or thereafter. Most importantly, I would instruct my lawyer to read and fully understand the contents of CIPPIC'S letter to the court. I would instruct him to coordinate with CIPPIC and other interested parties for mutual support and guidance. Whatever legal strategy decided upon will not be disclosed in these forums. Fight now, or fight later. I chose the former.
»cippic.ca/


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to sanc5
said by sanc5:


Whatever legal strategy decided upon will not be disclosed in these forums.

If all the above comes to pass and you do indeed end up embroiled into the fight and once its been done and over with and the smoke has cleared, it would then be prudent to update us here on the forum how all that went from start to finish. But only once its completely and utterly resolved, and with your lawyers blessings.

Good Luck.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
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Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to J E F F
said by J E F F:

I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.

Will it be small claims court? Because if it's only within small claims court, then I will have a field day with them. I fought stupid parking tickets and I'm not going to fight this? LOL!

I'm semi retired and have plenty of time.........


FatBastid

join:2012-12-27
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

reply to sanc5
I thought they already filed a statement of claim on November 14 against TSI IP's as John Doe's. That's where they are accusing everyone of those Doe's of violating their copyright for commercial purposes and profiting and enriching themselves. They are asking for statutory damages, punitive damages and "disgorging" of their financial information. That's a load of crap, just how did any of those peers get paid for being in the swarm?? Grandma downloads a movie and you want to rummage through her bank accounts, WTF?! That right there is an abuse of privacy, of our laws and of the Court.

To stop this nonsense would require that one of the Doe's file a motion to dismiss based on this and all the other holes in Voltage's claims. The lawyer would just say he represents 123.321.123.321, so no danger to your privacy there, but NOBODY is doing that, even though some other thread talks about starting a defence fund. So Voltage will get your names, then they'll serve all or some of you, AND THE'LL HAVE YOU BY THE BALLS.

Then you have useful idiots who post asinine comments like "hey, just don't do illegal stuff". REALLY? You have a company ass raping your laws, the courts for which you pay, and your contribution is you bring the vaseline?? Unbelievable.

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to sanc5
I'm confused....

Does anyone have the actual claim filed?

As for useful idiots, most of the time, they have an intere$t in being u$eful and not from any ethical stance. Certainly not one for personal privacy.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to Who7
IIRC, the max in small claims in Ontario is at least $25,000.00, and according to legislation, the max amount for being a consumer pirate is $5,000.00, I'd for sure let them take me to court. Although I guarantee they'll be sending out settlement papers to people for $1,000 or less and most people will just pay to avoid court.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

entourage93

join:2012-12-27
Tilbury, ON
Its scary to think that just one judge in two weeks could open a huge door to allow any one with an internet connection innocent or not to get harrassed and taken for a few quick dollars. Next Voltage board meeting could be something like... "Hey alright we got 2000 this time next time lets shoot for 25 000, hell they don't have to be even guilty were not going to court after all....but maybe out of 25 000 a couple thousand will get scared and pay us..."

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to J E F F
said by J E F F:

I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.

in my opinion they wrongly filed asking that this suit be regarding commercial infringement when it cant be proven such.

its like having anyone accuse you with no proof ....
ALSO as said before i know that under 7 grand you can move this to small claims court and also you can get legal aid if you cant afford it , so then it becomes a well i might as well fight worst that can happen is im found guilty and pay , cause otherwise your paying by extortion and i'll never bow to extortion....ALSO

ive given the idea that everyone has a right to hear the charges read in court so if voltage wants a class action and gets such and these names and proceeds i ask everyone to get a lawyer and make sure you ask the court to read the full charge voltage is making in court.

2300 people i wonder how long that will take and how much of a stomach voltage has for being negative in press for like ever....might just go right up to next election this....hehe...

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Who7
said by Who7:

said by J E F F:

I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.

Will it be small claims court? Because if it's only within small claims court, then I will have a field day with them. I fought stupid parking tickets and I'm not going to fight this? LOL!

I'm semi retired and have plenty of time.........

not the way they filed for commercial infringement and the way they are asking is that you would have to pay 10000 per infringement cause your profiting off there stuff

i doubt any of the 2300 are guilty of that but i digress there is no known way to take a list of ips and say HES MAKING MONEY....
that's a major flaw and one that i bet they thought no one might bring up....

if they drop it come back and refile for non commercial then you ask for and should get granted to small claims have a max judgement of 100-5000 FOR ALL INFRINGEMENTS and harper told the legal beagles to error on low side to prevent undue harm....that means most likely 100$ a movie. IT also means due to the max amount you should be then able to get legal aid....if you cant afford a lawyer.

get a free consultation and ask about all this..

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to FatBastid
said by FatBastid:

I thought they already filed a statement of claim on November 14 against TSI IP's as John Doe's. That's where they are accusing everyone of those Doe's of violating their copyright for commercial purposes and profiting and enriching themselves. They are asking for statutory damages, punitive damages and "disgorging" of their financial information. That's a load of crap, just how did any of those peers get paid for being in the swarm?? Grandma downloads a movie and you want to rummage through her bank accounts, WTF?! That right there is an abuse of privacy, of our laws and of the Court.

To stop this nonsense would require that one of the Doe's file a motion to dismiss based on this and all the other holes in Voltage's claims. The lawyer would just say he represents 123.321.123.321, so no danger to your privacy there, but NOBODY is doing that, even though some other thread talks about starting a defence fund. So Voltage will get your names, then they'll serve all or some of you, AND THE'LL HAVE YOU BY THE BALLS.

Then you have useful idiots who post asinine comments like "hey, just don't do illegal stuff". REALLY? You have a company ass raping your laws, the courts for which you pay, and your contribution is you bring the vaseline?? Unbelievable.

They are waiving the statutory damages ot get punitive because of commercial infringement which it should be fairly easy to say

here is an ip address on this piece a paper , show me how it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it makes any money
or profit....one could argue in fact its a loss situation cause the bandwidth is paid for by said person with that ip address. At best they should be forced to refile for non commercial and that changes a huge number of things...people getting legal aid it moving to small claims court....etc. if this goes forward i'd get people to counter claim slander and defamation of character as they are not commercially infringing and are thus not counterfeiting....which would cost about 120$ and you can include pain and suffering as part of your trama of being wrongly accused. i wonder if they are calling people pirates too .... that's not good either....i'm sure none of these people has used any weapons in gaining anything nor harmed anyone in said process physically.Hence the term file sharer.

to others they filed in federal court and they want 10000 PER infringement so if you did 3 files your above small claims and they want 30000 dollars. BTW folks this is why WHEN you live in a rooming house they need a warrant to enter a specific room and cant usually just get a ALL rooms warrant and go fishing ....to find that bad drug dealer. This is also why an ip address has issues of WHOM the real person was that did anything.

FatBastid

join:2012-12-27
Toronto, ON
reply to Who7
»copyrightenforcement.ca/voltage-···o-court/

Links at page above to the Statement of Claim. Don't confuse it with the motion against Teksavvy for disclosure, though that link is also there.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to entourage93
said by entourage93:

Its scary to think that just one judge in two weeks could open a huge door to allow any one with an internet connection innocent or not to get harrassed and taken for a few quick dollars. Next Voltage board meeting could be something like... "Hey alright we got 2000 this time next time lets shoot for 25 000, hell they don't have to be even guilty were not going to court after all....but maybe out of 25 000 a couple thousand will get scared and pay us..."

Are you ready for them to attack the entire ISP's IP range on a hunch that someone - anyone - innocent or not *might* catipulate and *gasp* pay up! just 'coz? Oh gee I mean whats stopping 'em huh?

Scro0 that, FIGHT NOW!
Repel the Invaders!
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

discoblues

join:2009-10-29
Pickering, ON
reply to sanc5
for those who decide to go to small claims court (and you know you technically stepped over the line), i wonder if it would be wise to show up with a pre-purchased copy of the bluray/dvd in your breifcase.

»www.amazon.ca/Hurt-Locker-Blu-ra···1&sr=8-2

for $11, you can use the argument you were getting yourself a backup copy.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..

1 recommendation

reply to entourage93
You really do need to show up in court. If a better percent of those that get the letter do show up in court, it will clog the system. If the system gets clogged, then likely the courts will stop hearing cases.

Can you imagine the backlog if Voltage went after 25,000 people and 20,000 decided to fight it? Voltage would go bankrupt.

Further, if everyone that gets a letter from Voltage decides to sue in small claims for harassment, this company will go down quickly.

We're on totally new grounds, and everything is untested in Canada. These judges don't understand copyright laws and how the internet affects everything.

Since this is new legislation, it might also be harder for those (Voltage) to actually prove in court their damages.

I know everyone is scared if they receive a letter, but it really won't be that bad. And all it's going to take is for those to stand up for their rights and not be bullied.

On the other hand, if you are buying DVD's for the purpose of torrenting, then that might be a bit different. I know aXXo used to upload a lot, and it's those people that need to be stopped. Not the casual downloader who decides to seed for a half an hour.

In the meantime, stop using torrents for your movies. Find more legal ways to download. As far as I know, downloading files in Canada is still a 'grey' area. (this means download direct from a site, no uploading involved)

And as I mentioned previously, there are legal options for music and movies. Obviously it's not 'free'...and although the money only goes to the exec's and stuff, at least you're not breaking the law.

Here is an interesting article as well:

»www.newstalk650.com/node/86140

And I am willing to bet a double-double that no one here goes to court over this.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..

1 recommendation

reply to funny0
Voltage would have a extremely difficult time proving commercial violation. It would require a different type of sting operation, using undercover detectives to buy DVD's and CD's from flea markets that have a that binary information that it came somewhere from the net.

If people here are into commercial distribution of downloaded content, then they will get what the deserve.

I just checked it, small claims in Ontario is $25,000

»www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.c···imit.asp

Here is info for Legal Aid (Ontario anyway)


Do you qualify for Legal Aid?


As you can see, most would not qualify for it.

I believe everyone can get some duty council help, but not necessarily for the entire case.

Unfortunately, the system is designed for refugees, murderers, unemployed and not on EI, and lowlifes.

That means you have to arms yourself with lots of info if you end up in court.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

entourage93

join:2012-12-27
Tilbury, ON

1 recommendation

reply to J E F F
Well put funny and thanks for the legal info. Im not one who has been given a letter but I know of a older gentlemen at work who has been notified by Tech Savvy. Thats what made me post on this forum. Sad situation. He is in his sixties lives in an apartment with his wife who is dying. He still works because he has too. They got internet to be able to email their grand kids. I've had to go over 3 times in the last year to help show them how to email. Long story short someone in their apartment has hacked their wifi and now on top of everything else they have this bs dropped on them. I understand Tech Savvy's stand to not get involved but cases like this makes you sick. Just kind of hope Marc and Tech Savvy would step up and fight for people like this. Hopefully the courts will see the flaws and the potential of other innoncent people getting harrased and hurt.

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
reply to sanc5
this is all the fault of the Harper conservatives! the liberals fought this type of legislation and refused to give in.

Harper bent us over to the international copyright mafia!


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
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Toronto, ON
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said by backness:

this is all the fault of the Harper conservatives! the liberals fought this type of legislation and refused to give in.

Harper bent us over to the international copyright mafia!

The Trans Pacific Partnership Loves You Long Time!
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----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


Leathal
Premium
join:2002-02-09
canada
kudos:2
reply to J E F F
I would have to disagree with you on many points. The government could ratify the copyright law to give Voltage untold powers over the legal system that the judges would say "this out of our jurisdiction".

First you have to see who backs Voltage if its the MPAA or someone huge they will likely have their own team of lawyers and such, and to go after 20k people across Canada will just be a drop in the bucket for them.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..

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Ratify how?

The government has given Voltage and others the right to go after people for money they believe they are owed. Limits are $5,000 for non-commercial use.

This is different than what happened in the states were grannies and teens were being sued for unlimited amounts of money.

These are non-criminal charges and can't be done by suing 50 people at a time.

If I am reading this law right, it was created to go after the serious scammer, either for profit or spit.

I haven't torrented in years, but I still wouldn't be too worried about it.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

entourage93

join:2012-12-27
Tilbury, ON
reply to Leathal
The Govt could make it even easier but... it could lead to political suicide if they did. This current Voltage witch hunt has resulted in a lot of media attention; can you imagine what tens of thousands being sued would generate? Opens a big door for the Liberals and NDP to attack if all of a sudden thousands of Canadians start getting shook down by a millionaire US movie company because of laws the Harper regime signed in. Sure some will be guilty but you know the focus will be on the ones who aren’t.


teksavvy cx

@teksavvy.com
has teksavvy sent out all the emails to affected customers yet? i received the one email of them notifying what was going on but i have not received the email saying that voltage was requesting my information. Also i joined teksavvy november 2011.

MrShag

join:2006-07-09
Hamilton, ON
reply to entourage93
According a seperate article, it says quite clearly that TSI can't fight the order.

The issue has nothing too do with TSI, it has everything too do with Voltage and the user.
If they fight they loose common carriers status.

Then get sued into oblivion.

Same with Canpost. They have too abide.

If yu simply leave the wifi open, yu can claim it as a defense.

Talk to a lawyer and see if there is any harrassment going on.
--
UBB - Universal Butt Banged. Thank-you Bell My I have another.

MrShag

join:2006-07-09
Hamilton, ON
reply to teksavvy cx
I think everything is on hold, awaiting the upcoming decsiscion.
--
UBB - Universal Butt Banged. Thank-you Bell My I have another.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
Marc said something about going back and rechecking all the IP info a 3rd time, and then reupdating the portal.

Log into your TSI portal, and if it doesn't show red, you're good.

As for the decision.. TSI's pretty much out of it now.

CIPPIC filed for permission to intervene on the 21st (with supporting docs, which I wouldn't mind seeing!), and served it on Voltage & TSI. I assume the Judge won't make a ruling on it til we're in court on the 14th, as its the first day back from his break.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

sanc5

join:2012-12-13
Mississauga, ON
If TSI is listening, I suggest they post somewhere in the forums the "drop dead" date for customers to check the TSI portal. The clock is ticking closer and closer to Jan 14th.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to J E F F
This action was filed in Federal Court so Small Claims is initially not relevant. The first thing you will need to do is file a Defence Form 171B as prescribed by the Federal Courts Rules to deny, deny, deny.

Then you will file a Motion by way of Form 359 to seek leave to move the venue to Small Claims Court as it is the appropriate court and move the matter to the more appropriate location of the county you reside.

The Federal Court will love this as it gets you and this garbage out of their system. Eventually someone will upload templates of the verbiage to include in these filings. Or you could pay up. Your call.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to discoblues
said by discoblues:

for those who decide to go to small claims court (and you know you technically stepped over the line), i wonder if it would be wise to show up with a pre-purchased copy of the bluray/dvd in your breifcase.

»www.amazon.ca/Hurt-Locker-Blu-ra···1&sr=8-2

for $11, you can use the argument you were getting yourself a backup copy.

you dont get it , you dopnt have a choice atm it will goto federal court cause they are asking for punitive commercial damages of 10000 per infringment so i gather a few ips had more hten one file shared....and small claims has a maximum of 25000 now....was upped from 10000.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

This action was filed in Federal Court so Small Claims is initially not relevant. The first thing you will need to do is file a Defence Form 171B as prescribed by the Federal Courts Rules to deny, deny, deny.

Then you will file a Motion by way of Form 359 to seek leave to move the venue to Small Claims Court as it is the appropriate court and move the matter to the more appropriate location of the county you reside.

The Federal Court will love this as it gets you and this garbage out of their system. Eventually someone will upload templates of the verbiage to include in these filings. Or you could pay up. Your call.

Isn't that only after they file against you though?

It isn't at that point, and except for maybe 1 or 2 people being made an example of, it won't reach that point..
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP