 J E F F4Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON |
to sanc5
Re: What I would do if Voltage has my IP AddressI'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this. |
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Who7
Member
2012-Dec-27 7:26 pm
said by J E F F4:I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.
Will it be small claims court? Because if it's only within small claims court, then I will have a field day with them. I fought stupid parking tickets and I'm not going to fight this? LOL! I'm semi retired and have plenty of time......... |
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J E F F4Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON |
J E F F4
Premium Member
2012-Dec-27 9:19 pm
IIRC, the max in small claims in Ontario is at least $25,000.00, and according to legislation, the max amount for being a consumer pirate is $5,000.00, I'd for sure let them take me to court. Although I guarantee they'll be sending out settlement papers to people for $1,000 or less and most people will just pay to avoid court. |
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Its scary to think that just one judge in two weeks could open a huge door to allow any one with an internet connection innocent or not to get harrassed and taken for a few quick dollars. Next Voltage board meeting could be something like... "Hey alright we got 2000 this time next time lets shoot for 25 000, hell they don't have to be even guilty were not going to court after all....but maybe out of 25 000 a couple thousand will get scared and pay us..." |
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to J E F F4
said by J E F F4:I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.
in my opinion they wrongly filed asking that this suit be regarding commercial infringement when it cant be proven such. its like having anyone accuse you with no proof .... ALSO as said before i know that under 7 grand you can move this to small claims court and also you can get legal aid if you cant afford it , so then it becomes a well i might as well fight worst that can happen is im found guilty and pay , cause otherwise your paying by extortion and i'll never bow to extortion....ALSO ive given the idea that everyone has a right to hear the charges read in court so if voltage wants a class action and gets such and these names and proceeds i ask everyone to get a lawyer and make sure you ask the court to read the full charge voltage is making in court. 2300 people i wonder how long that will take and how much of a stomach voltage has for being negative in press for like ever....might just go right up to next election this....hehe... |
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to Who7
said by Who7:said by J E F F4:I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.
Will it be small claims court? Because if it's only within small claims court, then I will have a field day with them. I fought stupid parking tickets and I'm not going to fight this? LOL! I'm semi retired and have plenty of time......... not the way they filed for commercial infringement and the way they are asking is that you would have to pay 10000 per infringement cause your profiting off there stuff i doubt any of the 2300 are guilty of that but i digress there is no known way to take a list of ips and say HES MAKING MONEY.... that's a major flaw and one that i bet they thought no one might bring up.... if they drop it come back and refile for non commercial then you ask for and should get granted to small claims have a max judgement of 100-5000 FOR ALL INFRINGEMENTS and harper told the legal beagles to error on low side to prevent undue harm....that means most likely 100$ a movie. IT also means due to the max amount you should be then able to get legal aid....if you cant afford a lawyer. get a free consultation and ask about all this.. |
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 TwiztedZeroNine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium Member
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON |
to entourage93
said by entourage93:Its scary to think that just one judge in two weeks could open a huge door to allow any one with an internet connection innocent or not to get harrassed and taken for a few quick dollars. Next Voltage board meeting could be something like... "Hey alright we got 2000 this time next time lets shoot for 25 000, hell they don't have to be even guilty were not going to court after all....but maybe out of 25 000 a couple thousand will get scared and pay us..."
Are you ready for them to attack the entire ISP's IP range on a hunch that someone - anyone - innocent or not *might* catipulate and *gasp* pay up! just 'coz? Oh gee I mean whats stopping 'em huh? Scro0 that, FIGHT NOW! Repel the Invaders! |
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J E F F4Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
1 recommendation |
to entourage93
You really do need to show up in court. If a better percent of those that get the letter do show up in court, it will clog the system. If the system gets clogged, then likely the courts will stop hearing cases. Can you imagine the backlog if Voltage went after 25,000 people and 20,000 decided to fight it? Voltage would go bankrupt. Further, if everyone that gets a letter from Voltage decides to sue in small claims for harassment, this company will go down quickly. We're on totally new grounds, and everything is untested in Canada. These judges don't understand copyright laws and how the internet affects everything. Since this is new legislation, it might also be harder for those (Voltage) to actually prove in court their damages. I know everyone is scared if they receive a letter, but it really won't be that bad. And all it's going to take is for those to stand up for their rights and not be bullied. On the other hand, if you are buying DVD's for the purpose of torrenting, then that might be a bit different. I know aXXo used to upload a lot, and it's those people that need to be stopped. Not the casual downloader who decides to seed for a half an hour. In the meantime, stop using torrents for your movies. Find more legal ways to download. As far as I know, downloading files in Canada is still a 'grey' area. (this means download direct from a site, no uploading involved) And as I mentioned previously, there are legal options for music and movies. Obviously it's not 'free'...and although the money only goes to the exec's and stuff, at least you're not breaking the law. Here is an interesting article as well: » www.newstalk650.com/node/86140And I am willing to bet a double-double that no one here goes to court over this. |
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J E F F4
1 recommendation |
to funny0
Voltage would have a extremely difficult time proving commercial violation. It would require a different type of sting operation, using undercover detectives to buy DVD's and CD's from flea markets that have a that binary information that it came somewhere from the net. If people here are into commercial distribution of downloaded content, then they will get what the deserve. I just checked it, small claims in Ontario is $25,000 » www.attorneygeneral.jus. ··· imit.aspHere is info for Legal Aid (Ontario anyway) 
Do you qualify for Legal Aid?
As you can see, most would not qualify for it.
I believe everyone can get some duty council help, but not necessarily for the entire case.
Unfortunately, the system is designed for refugees, murderers, unemployed and not on EI, and lowlifes.
That means you have to arms yourself with lots of info if you end up in court.
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1 recommendation |
to J E F F4
Well put funny and thanks for the legal info. Im not one who has been given a letter but I know of a older gentlemen at work who has been notified by Tech Savvy. Thats what made me post on this forum. Sad situation. He is in his sixties lives in an apartment with his wife who is dying. He still works because he has too. They got internet to be able to email their grand kids. I've had to go over 3 times in the last year to help show them how to email. Long story short someone in their apartment has hacked their wifi and now on top of everything else they have this bs dropped on them. I understand Tech Savvy's stand to not get involved but cases like this makes you sick. Just kind of hope Marc and Tech Savvy would step up and fight for people like this. Hopefully the courts will see the flaws and the potential of other innoncent people getting harrased and hurt. |
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 Leathal
Premium Member
join:2002-02-09
Richmond Hill, ON |
to J E F F4
I would have to disagree with you on many points. The government could ratify the copyright law to give Voltage untold powers over the legal system that the judges would say "this out of our jurisdiction". First you have to see who backs Voltage if its the MPAA or someone huge they will likely have their own team of lawyers and such, and to go after 20k people across Canada will just be a drop in the bucket for them.  |
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J E F F4Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
1 recommendation |
J E F F4
Premium Member
2012-Dec-28 10:09 pm
Ratify how?
The government has given Voltage and others the right to go after people for money they believe they are owed. Limits are $5,000 for non-commercial use.
This is different than what happened in the states were grannies and teens were being sued for unlimited amounts of money.
These are non-criminal charges and can't be done by suing 50 people at a time.
If I am reading this law right, it was created to go after the serious scammer, either for profit or spit.
I haven't torrented in years, but I still wouldn't be too worried about it. |
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to Leathal
The Govt could make it even easier but... it could lead to political suicide if they did. This current Voltage witch hunt has resulted in a lot of media attention; can you imagine what tens of thousands being sued would generate? Opens a big door for the Liberals and NDP to attack if all of a sudden thousands of Canadians start getting shook down by a millionaire US movie company because of laws the Harper regime signed in. Sure some will be guilty but you know the focus will be on the ones who aren’t. |
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teksavvy cx
Anon
2012-Dec-29 4:33 pm
has teksavvy sent out all the emails to affected customers yet? i received the one email of them notifying what was going on but i have not received the email saying that voltage was requesting my information. Also i joined teksavvy november 2011. |
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MrShag
join:2006-07-09
Hamilton, ON |
to entourage93
According a seperate article, it says quite clearly that TSI can't fight the order.
The issue has nothing too do with TSI, it has everything too do with Voltage and the user.
If they fight they loose common carriers status.
Then get sued into oblivion.
Same with Canpost. They have too abide.
If yu simply leave the wifi open, yu can claim it as a defense.
Talk to a lawyer and see if there is any harrassment going on. |
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| MrShag |
to teksavvy cx
I think everything is on hold, awaiting the upcoming decsiscion. |
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resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON |
resa1983
Premium Member
2012-Dec-29 11:55 pm
Marc said something about going back and rechecking all the IP info a 3rd time, and then reupdating the portal.
Log into your TSI portal, and if it doesn't show red, you're good.
As for the decision.. TSI's pretty much out of it now.
CIPPIC filed for permission to intervene on the 21st (with supporting docs, which I wouldn't mind seeing!), and served it on Voltage & TSI. I assume the Judge won't make a ruling on it til we're in court on the 14th, as its the first day back from his break. |
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sanc5
join:2012-12-13
Mississauga, ON |
sanc5
Member
2012-Dec-30 7:52 am
If TSI is listening, I suggest they post somewhere in the forums the "drop dead" date for customers to check the TSI portal. The clock is ticking closer and closer to Jan 14th. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON |
to J E F F4
This action was filed in Federal Court so Small Claims is initially not relevant. The first thing you will need to do is file a Defence Form 171B as prescribed by the Federal Courts Rules to deny, deny, deny.
Then you will file a Motion by way of Form 359 to seek leave to move the venue to Small Claims Court as it is the appropriate court and move the matter to the more appropriate location of the county you reside.
The Federal Court will love this as it gets you and this garbage out of their system. Eventually someone will upload templates of the verbiage to include in these filings. Or you could pay up. Your call. |
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resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON |
resa1983
Premium Member
2012-Dec-30 11:02 am
said by peterboro:This action was filed in Federal Court so Small Claims is initially not relevant. The first thing you will need to do is file a Defence Form 171B as prescribed by the Federal Courts Rules to deny, deny, deny.
Then you will file a Motion by way of Form 359 to seek leave to move the venue to Small Claims Court as it is the appropriate court and move the matter to the more appropriate location of the county you reside.
The Federal Court will love this as it gets you and this garbage out of their system. Eventually someone will upload templates of the verbiage to include in these filings. Or you could pay up. Your call.
Isn't that only after they file against you though? It isn't at that point, and except for maybe 1 or 2 people being made an example of, it won't reach that point.. |
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to J E F F4
said by J E F F4:You really do need to show up in court. If a better percent of those that get the letter do show up in court, it will clog the system. If the system gets clogged, then likely the courts will stop hearing cases.
Can you imagine the backlog if Voltage went after 25,000 people and 20,000 decided to fight it? Voltage would go bankrupt.
Further, if everyone that gets a letter from Voltage decides to sue in small claims for harassment, this company will go down quickly.
We're on totally new grounds, and everything is untested in Canada. These judges don't understand copyright laws and how the internet affects everything.
Since this is new legislation, it might also be harder for those (Voltage) to actually prove in court their damages.
I know everyone is scared if they receive a letter, but it really won't be that bad. And all it's going to take is for those to stand up for their rights and not be bullied.
On the other hand, if you are buying DVD's for the purpose of torrenting, then that might be a bit different. I know aXXo used to upload a lot, and it's those people that need to be stopped. Not the casual downloader who decides to seed for a half an hour.
In the meantime, stop using torrents for your movies. Find more legal ways to download. As far as I know, downloading files in Canada is still a 'grey' area. (this means download direct from a site, no uploading involved)
And as I mentioned previously, there are legal options for music and movies. Obviously it's not 'free'...and although the money only goes to the exec's and stuff, at least you're not breaking the law.
Here is an interesting article as well:
»www.newstalk650.com/node/86140
And I am willing to bet a double-double that no one here goes to court over this.
especially when 20000 people ask the court to have the charges agaisnt them read in court , even a joined action against the 20000 well all i have to say is see you in 2050.... and thats how you start to fight back on bad abusers .... seriously commercial infringement , now imagine that everyone showing up also counter sues for slander , defamation of character and pain and suffering for 1 million dollars after all your in federal big boy court. you can easily prove beyond a reasonable doubt you DID NOT counterfeit/commerical make money off said stuff. they aren't talking aobut non commercial and you didn't steal are nto a thief and i'll add are not a pirate that robs/rapes and harms or kills people for loot. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON |
to resa1983
said by resa1983: Isn't that only after they file against you though?
It isn't at that point, and except for maybe 1 or 2 people being made an example of, it won't reach that point..
First will be a demand letter for two reasons; 1. It is their business model to shake down as many as possible this way. 2. It demonstrates to the court how they are swell people and tried to resolve this without wasting the courts time. As you will already named as defendant and not Jane or John Doe in the initial action they will perfect the statement of claim against you in Federal Court if you don't adhere satisfactorily to their demands. |
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resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON |
resa1983
Premium Member
2012-Dec-30 11:23 am
said by peterboro:said by resa1983: Isn't that only after they file against you though?
It isn't at that point, and except for maybe 1 or 2 people being made an example of, it won't reach that point..
First will be a demand letter for two reasons; 1. It is their business model to shake down as many as possible this way. 2. It demonstrates to the court how they are swell people and tried to resolve this without wasting the courts time. As you will already named as defendant and not Jane or John Doe in the initial action they will perfect the statement of claim against you in Federal Court if you don't adhere satisfactorily to their demands. I know how they work. I've been watching how it's been going in the US for months and months on end. My question was more how things work legally in Canada, vs what their MO is. I haven't and won't be named, as I don't download movies. They're not worth my time as they're all crap anyways. I watch a few TV shows, and thats about it for my TV/movie watching. The problem however, is that once you get named, you have to get yourself severed from the main suit (which may or may not happen) as you're 1 of 2000 defendants, and then get it knocked down to small claims. The best bet right now, is CIPPIC. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON |
peterboro (banned)
Member
2012-Dec-30 11:31 am
said by resa1983: I haven't and won't be named, as I don't download movies. They're not worth my time as they're all crap anyways. I watch a few TV shows, and thats about it for my TV/movie watching. I don't download either but I have got a notices from Cogeco. I also have an unsecured wireless router (not always on) that I don't know how to secure ready to introduce into evidence with expert testimony. said by resa1983:The problem however, is that once you get named, you have to get yourself severed from the main suit (which may or may not happen) as you're 1 of 2000 defendants, and then get it knocked down to small claims.
The best bet right now, is CIPPIC.
You won't get severed from the action as a defendant as the plaintiff has plead and relied on the same facts and law to initiate the action. You will only move to change the venue to one in which the playing field is level with some due diligence. That is assuming you people don't mind litigating in Federal Court and being liable for substantial costs if you don't prevail. |
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J E F F4Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON |
J E F F4
Premium Member
2012-Dec-30 12:51 pm
Somebody was wardriving is always a good defence.
Anyway, this does little to solve their problem, people will find safer alternatives to download their junk that leaves little or no trace and involves multiple jurisdictions and people hiding behind anonymous proxys and using VPN's. The industry needs a new business model.
I'd suggest to them that their actions are only hurting them more than it helps. The only difference will be that they will not know they are being robbed of their "intellectual property". Who's taking what from where will be a known unknown. |
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| J E F F4 |
to funny0
We only need enough people to fill up the courtroom and to drag the accusations for entire week, then more people can show up the following week.
I really can't see this getting much traction other than these people who settle out of court. And maybe that's their plan.
Counter-suing is a great idea though, as there are very few commercial pirates in Canada, and certainly not 20,000. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON |
peterboro (banned)
Member
2012-Dec-30 1:02 pm
said by J E F F4: I really can't see this getting much traction other than these people who settle out of court. And maybe that's their plan. I don't know much computer gobbledygook as I sit around and read case law instead. What I do know is that people seek the path of least resistance and few people ever put up a legal defence that gets to a trial. 99% of the TSI customers will settle without consumer advocate intervention. Guaranteed. |
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J E F F4Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON |
J E F F4
Premium Member
2012-Dec-30 1:08 pm
Depends on the settlement. If it's $200, sure. If it's $5,000, I doubt it. Maybe the plan is to settle what the market can bare, I don't know. But even if 1% decides to fight it, then that 1% will ruin it for Voltage to take it to the next level...Rogers, Bell, Telus, Videotron, Shaw, Cogeco... |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON |
peterboro (banned)
Member
2012-Dec-30 1:16 pm
said by J E F F4:Depends on the settlement. If it's $200, sure. If it's $5,000, I doubt it. Maybe the plan is to settle what the market can bare, I don't know. But even if 1% decides to fight it, then that 1% will ruin it for Voltage to take it to the next level...Rogers, Bell, Telus, Videotron, Shaw, Cogeco...
Their legal counsel and bean counters have worked out the tipping point that anyone with legal advice will settle. A few people like myself, even if offered to settle for a dollar, will exhibit a tenacity that will wish they never encountered us. |
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J E F F4Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON |
J E F F4
Premium Member
2012-Dec-30 1:20 pm
Well bless you and the other 1%.
This is going to be very interesting to watch as it unfolds. |
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