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Who7
join:2012-12-18

Who7 to J E F F4

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to J E F F4

Re: What I would do if Voltage has my IP Address

said by J E F F4:

I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.

Will it be small claims court? Because if it's only within small claims court, then I will have a field day with them. I fought stupid parking tickets and I'm not going to fight this? LOL!

I'm semi retired and have plenty of time.........


J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

IIRC, the max in small claims in Ontario is at least $25,000.00, and according to legislation, the max amount for being a consumer pirate is $5,000.00, I'd for sure let them take me to court. Although I guarantee they'll be sending out settlement papers to people for $1,000 or less and most people will just pay to avoid court.
entourage93
join:2012-12-27
Tilbury, ON

entourage93

Member

Its scary to think that just one judge in two weeks could open a huge door to allow any one with an internet connection innocent or not to get harrassed and taken for a few quick dollars. Next Voltage board meeting could be something like... "Hey alright we got 2000 this time next time lets shoot for 25 000, hell they don't have to be even guilty were not going to court after all....but maybe out of 25 000 a couple thousand will get scared and pay us..."
funny0
join:2010-12-22

funny0 to Who7

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to Who7
said by Who7:

said by J E F F4:

I'd let them take me to court. I believe it would have to be small claims in jurisdiction of said offence. Voltage doesn't have the money or manpower for all the court cases. Voltage does not want to go to court over this.

Will it be small claims court? Because if it's only within small claims court, then I will have a field day with them. I fought stupid parking tickets and I'm not going to fight this? LOL!

I'm semi retired and have plenty of time.........

not the way they filed for commercial infringement and the way they are asking is that you would have to pay 10000 per infringement cause your profiting off there stuff

i doubt any of the 2300 are guilty of that but i digress there is no known way to take a list of ips and say HES MAKING MONEY....
that's a major flaw and one that i bet they thought no one might bring up....

if they drop it come back and refile for non commercial then you ask for and should get granted to small claims have a max judgement of 100-5000 FOR ALL INFRINGEMENTS and harper told the legal beagles to error on low side to prevent undue harm....that means most likely 100$ a movie. IT also means due to the max amount you should be then able to get legal aid....if you cant afford a lawyer.

get a free consultation and ask about all this..

TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium Member
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON

TwiztedZero to entourage93

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to entourage93
said by entourage93:

Its scary to think that just one judge in two weeks could open a huge door to allow any one with an internet connection innocent or not to get harrassed and taken for a few quick dollars. Next Voltage board meeting could be something like... "Hey alright we got 2000 this time next time lets shoot for 25 000, hell they don't have to be even guilty were not going to court after all....but maybe out of 25 000 a couple thousand will get scared and pay us..."

Are you ready for them to attack the entire ISP's IP range on a hunch that someone - anyone - innocent or not *might* catipulate and *gasp* pay up! just 'coz? Oh gee I mean whats stopping 'em huh?

Scro0 that, FIGHT NOW!
Repel the Invaders!

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

1 recommendation

J E F F4 to entourage93

Premium Member

to entourage93
You really do need to show up in court. If a better percent of those that get the letter do show up in court, it will clog the system. If the system gets clogged, then likely the courts will stop hearing cases.

Can you imagine the backlog if Voltage went after 25,000 people and 20,000 decided to fight it? Voltage would go bankrupt.

Further, if everyone that gets a letter from Voltage decides to sue in small claims for harassment, this company will go down quickly.

We're on totally new grounds, and everything is untested in Canada. These judges don't understand copyright laws and how the internet affects everything.

Since this is new legislation, it might also be harder for those (Voltage) to actually prove in court their damages.

I know everyone is scared if they receive a letter, but it really won't be that bad. And all it's going to take is for those to stand up for their rights and not be bullied.

On the other hand, if you are buying DVD's for the purpose of torrenting, then that might be a bit different. I know aXXo used to upload a lot, and it's those people that need to be stopped. Not the casual downloader who decides to seed for a half an hour.

In the meantime, stop using torrents for your movies. Find more legal ways to download. As far as I know, downloading files in Canada is still a 'grey' area. (this means download direct from a site, no uploading involved)

And as I mentioned previously, there are legal options for music and movies. Obviously it's not 'free'...and although the money only goes to the exec's and stuff, at least you're not breaking the law.

Here is an interesting article as well:

»www.newstalk650.com/node/86140

And I am willing to bet a double-double that no one here goes to court over this.
entourage93
join:2012-12-27
Tilbury, ON

1 recommendation

entourage93

Member

Well put funny and thanks for the legal info. Im not one who has been given a letter but I know of a older gentlemen at work who has been notified by Tech Savvy. Thats what made me post on this forum. Sad situation. He is in his sixties lives in an apartment with his wife who is dying. He still works because he has too. They got internet to be able to email their grand kids. I've had to go over 3 times in the last year to help show them how to email. Long story short someone in their apartment has hacked their wifi and now on top of everything else they have this bs dropped on them. I understand Tech Savvy's stand to not get involved but cases like this makes you sick. Just kind of hope Marc and Tech Savvy would step up and fight for people like this. Hopefully the courts will see the flaws and the potential of other innoncent people getting harrased and hurt.

Leathal
Premium Member
join:2002-02-09
Richmond Hill, ON

Leathal to J E F F4

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to J E F F4
I would have to disagree with you on many points. The government could ratify the copyright law to give Voltage untold powers over the legal system that the judges would say "this out of our jurisdiction".

First you have to see who backs Voltage if its the MPAA or someone huge they will likely have their own team of lawyers and such, and to go after 20k people across Canada will just be a drop in the bucket for them.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

1 recommendation

J E F F4

Premium Member

Ratify how?

The government has given Voltage and others the right to go after people for money they believe they are owed. Limits are $5,000 for non-commercial use.

This is different than what happened in the states were grannies and teens were being sued for unlimited amounts of money.

These are non-criminal charges and can't be done by suing 50 people at a time.

If I am reading this law right, it was created to go after the serious scammer, either for profit or spit.

I haven't torrented in years, but I still wouldn't be too worried about it.
entourage93
join:2012-12-27
Tilbury, ON

entourage93 to Leathal

Member

to Leathal
The Govt could make it even easier but... it could lead to political suicide if they did. This current Voltage witch hunt has resulted in a lot of media attention; can you imagine what tens of thousands being sued would generate? Opens a big door for the Liberals and NDP to attack if all of a sudden thousands of Canadians start getting shook down by a millionaire US movie company because of laws the Harper regime signed in. Sure some will be guilty but you know the focus will be on the ones who aren’t.

teksavvy cx
@teksavvy.com

teksavvy cx

Anon

has teksavvy sent out all the emails to affected customers yet? i received the one email of them notifying what was going on but i have not received the email saying that voltage was requesting my information. Also i joined teksavvy november 2011.
MrShag
join:2006-07-09
Hamilton, ON

MrShag to entourage93

Member

to entourage93
According a seperate article, it says quite clearly that TSI can't fight the order.

The issue has nothing too do with TSI, it has everything too do with Voltage and the user.
If they fight they loose common carriers status.

Then get sued into oblivion.

Same with Canpost. They have too abide.

If yu simply leave the wifi open, yu can claim it as a defense.

Talk to a lawyer and see if there is any harrassment going on.
MrShag

MrShag to teksavvy cx

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to teksavvy cx
I think everything is on hold, awaiting the upcoming decsiscion.
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983

Premium Member

Marc said something about going back and rechecking all the IP info a 3rd time, and then reupdating the portal.

Log into your TSI portal, and if it doesn't show red, you're good.

As for the decision.. TSI's pretty much out of it now.

CIPPIC filed for permission to intervene on the 21st (with supporting docs, which I wouldn't mind seeing!), and served it on Voltage & TSI. I assume the Judge won't make a ruling on it til we're in court on the 14th, as its the first day back from his break.
sanc5
join:2012-12-13
Mississauga, ON

sanc5

Member

If TSI is listening, I suggest they post somewhere in the forums the "drop dead" date for customers to check the TSI portal. The clock is ticking closer and closer to Jan 14th.
funny0
join:2010-12-22

funny0 to J E F F4

Member

to J E F F4
said by J E F F4:

You really do need to show up in court. If a better percent of those that get the letter do show up in court, it will clog the system. If the system gets clogged, then likely the courts will stop hearing cases.

Can you imagine the backlog if Voltage went after 25,000 people and 20,000 decided to fight it? Voltage would go bankrupt.

Further, if everyone that gets a letter from Voltage decides to sue in small claims for harassment, this company will go down quickly.

We're on totally new grounds, and everything is untested in Canada. These judges don't understand copyright laws and how the internet affects everything.

Since this is new legislation, it might also be harder for those (Voltage) to actually prove in court their damages.

I know everyone is scared if they receive a letter, but it really won't be that bad. And all it's going to take is for those to stand up for their rights and not be bullied.

On the other hand, if you are buying DVD's for the purpose of torrenting, then that might be a bit different. I know aXXo used to upload a lot, and it's those people that need to be stopped. Not the casual downloader who decides to seed for a half an hour.

In the meantime, stop using torrents for your movies. Find more legal ways to download. As far as I know, downloading files in Canada is still a 'grey' area. (this means download direct from a site, no uploading involved)

And as I mentioned previously, there are legal options for music and movies. Obviously it's not 'free'...and although the money only goes to the exec's and stuff, at least you're not breaking the law.

Here is an interesting article as well:

»www.newstalk650.com/node/86140

And I am willing to bet a double-double that no one here goes to court over this.

especially when 20000 people ask the court to have the charges agaisnt them read in court , even a joined action against the 20000 well all i have to say is see you in 2050....
and thats how you start to fight back on bad abusers ....

seriously commercial infringement , now imagine that everyone showing up also counter sues for
slander , defamation of character and pain and suffering for 1 million dollars after all your in federal big boy court.

you can easily prove beyond a reasonable doubt you DID NOT counterfeit/commerical make money off said stuff.

they aren't talking aobut non commercial and you didn't steal are nto a thief and i'll add are not a pirate that robs/rapes and harms or kills people for loot.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

We only need enough people to fill up the courtroom and to drag the accusations for entire week, then more people can show up the following week.

I really can't see this getting much traction other than these people who settle out of court. And maybe that's their plan.

Counter-suing is a great idea though, as there are very few commercial pirates in Canada, and certainly not 20,000.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by J E F F4:

I really can't see this getting much traction other than these people who settle out of court. And maybe that's their plan.

I don't know much computer gobbledygook as I sit around and read case law instead.

What I do know is that people seek the path of least resistance and few people ever put up a legal defence that gets to a trial.

99% of the TSI customers will settle without consumer advocate intervention. Guaranteed.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

Depends on the settlement. If it's $200, sure. If it's $5,000, I doubt it. Maybe the plan is to settle what the market can bare, I don't know. But even if 1% decides to fight it, then that 1% will ruin it for Voltage to take it to the next level...Rogers, Bell, Telus, Videotron, Shaw, Cogeco...
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by J E F F4:

Depends on the settlement. If it's $200, sure. If it's $5,000, I doubt it. Maybe the plan is to settle what the market can bare, I don't know. But even if 1% decides to fight it, then that 1% will ruin it for Voltage to take it to the next level...Rogers, Bell, Telus, Videotron, Shaw, Cogeco...

Their legal counsel and bean counters have worked out the tipping point that anyone with legal advice will settle. A few people like myself, even if offered to settle for a dollar, will exhibit a tenacity that will wish they never encountered us.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

Well bless you and the other 1%.

This is going to be very interesting to watch as it unfolds.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by J E F F4:

Well bless you and the other 1%.

It's not like people like me are naturally altruistic, though many are, we are just obstinate and inclined to fight.

In ancient times we wouldn't survive long, probably not into adulthood, or would go on to lead great campaigns.

We are not really motivated by the opponent but the principle or righteous cause or our own sense of hubris.

However we are often wrong and subject to great prejudice because of it.

But one thing usually results. Those who encounter us tread cautiously upon subsequent encounters.