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davidg
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
reply to Hagar

Re: Why is neutral conncted to ground in the fuse box/panel?

not to be an ass, but if you don't know this then you don't need to open the panel except to change a fuse/reset a breaker until you learn more.
--
Lack of Preparation on YOUR Part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on Mine!

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

said by davidg:

not to be an ass, but if you don't know this then you don't need to open the panel except to change a fuse/reset a breaker until you learn more.

And, asking the question here is how he can learn more, right?


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

2 recommendations

said by garys_2k:

said by davidg:

not to be an ass, but if you don't know this then you don't need to open the panel except to change a fuse/reset a breaker until you learn more.

And, asking the question here is how he can learn more, right?

+1

That response is wearing thin. I'd rather someone post and ask a question rather than do something wrong.


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
reply to davidg
I appreciate the concern, no plans to do/change anything.


davidg
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none

1 recommendation

reply to garys_2k
sorry, but asking questions on a forum is not the PROPER way to learn about electrical. you will get such wide response(most of them completely wrong) that it will only serve to confuse and endanger someone. If he really wants to learn, and i hope he does, then the better method is to get someone that knows to teach him. there are also some basic electrical books available fairly cheap that will give someone the very basic understanding they need to do minor home electrical work.

i never said NOT to ask, just to not do anything in the panel until he learned more. a live panel is not the place for someone that has no basic knowledge, you can and will get hurt quickly.
--
Lack of Preparation on YOUR Part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on Mine!


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to davidg
said by davidg:

not to be an ass, but if you don't know this then you don't need to open the panel except to change a fuse/reset a breaker until you learn more.

+1 Good advice. These people have no business ever taking the cover off a panel period.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to davidg
said by davidg:

sorry, but asking questions on a forum is not the PROPER way to learn about electrical. you will get such wide response(most of them completely wrong) that it will only serve to confuse and endanger someone. If he really wants to learn, and i hope he does, then the better method is to get someone that knows to teach him. there are also some basic electrical books available fairly cheap that will give someone the very basic understanding they need to do minor home electrical work.

i never said NOT to ask, just to not do anything in the panel until he learned more. a live panel is not the place for someone that has no basic knowledge, you can and will get hurt quickly.

And you said all that to him, about getting books, looking for codes, or did you just blow him off with a smart remark?

Besides, there are some extremely knowledgeable sparkys that post here regularly. The OP asked a fair question. Your answer was not helpful.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to davidg
+1 again

I guess that those of us wasted our time studying and getting our license? All we need to do is to come to a Home Improvement forum and ask about anything we need to know.

To think I could have avoided 2 years of M - F, 8 hour classes and 5 years of 3 and 4 nights per week of classes.

There are people on here that have no business opening up a panel yet are encouraged by some to perform functions that these folks should not be attempting. What's even worse is some of the posters giving this advice clearly don't know themselves.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to davidg
And this is why Detective David Mills should I never opened the box.


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to Jack_in_VA
I personally do think the ‘You are in over your head’ posts are useful. Electricity is dangerous and it is important to follow code so the next electrician does not get a nasty surprise. I have been lurking in this forum and one of the reasons I read it is just because there are professional that take their time to explain things. Jack_in_VA you are on my list of pros that I read extra carefully.

I am a curious person and have lived in many places in the world. Some of them did not have a neutral to ground connection in the main panel. Maybe they had a connection upstream at the pole. The last place I saw no neutral ground connection had a whole house GFI. One lab I visited had two grounds, regular ground that was connected to neutral and reference ground that was not.

Sorry if not providing any context in the first post.

/edit typos
Expand your moderator at work

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to Hagar

Re: Why is neutral conncted to ground in the fuse box/panel?

said by Hagar:

I am a curious person and have lived in many places in the world. Some of them did not have a neutral to ground connection in the main panel. Maybe they had a connection upstream at the pole. The last place I saw no neutral ground connection had a whole house GFI. One lab I visited had two grounds, regular ground that was connected to neutral and reference ground that was not.

It would be a mistake to think that all power distribution systems around the world are the same as the system used in the United States. As you list your location as Sunnyvale, CA; I based my response to your question on the system used in the US. That by no means should imply that all electrical systems have the neutral and ground bonded as is required with our system.
Expand your moderator at work


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to davidg

Re: Why is neutral conncted to ground in the fuse box/panel?

said by davidg:

sorry, but asking questions on a forum is not the PROPER way to learn about electrical. you will get such wide response(most of them completely wrong) that it will only serve to confuse and endanger someone. If he really wants to learn, and i hope he does, then the better method is to get someone that knows to teach him. there are also some basic electrical books available fairly cheap that will give someone the very basic understanding they need to do minor home electrical work.

i never said NOT to ask, just to not do anything in the panel until he learned more. a live panel is not the place for someone that has no basic knowledge, you can and will get hurt quickly.

Then maybe we should just close this forum with comments and beliefs like this.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by ropeguru:

said by davidg:

sorry, but asking questions on a forum is not the PROPER way to learn about electrical. you will get such wide response(most of them completely wrong) that it will only serve to confuse and endanger someone. If he really wants to learn, and i hope he does, then the better method is to get someone that knows to teach him. there are also some basic electrical books available fairly cheap that will give someone the very basic understanding they need to do minor home electrical work.

i never said NOT to ask, just to not do anything in the panel until he learned more. a live panel is not the place for someone that has no basic knowledge, you can and will get hurt quickly.

Then maybe we should just close this forum with comments and beliefs like this.

He's talking about electrical that is lethal unless handled properly. You can see from the many varied and mostly wrong advice that this is a problem. Someone working with electrical should have a basic knowledge of it especially the NEC.

nunya and whizkid are two very good sources for accurate info. Keep that in mind.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

2 recommendations

Jack, I agree with you about who should be listened to. But the OP only asked a question about if what he saw was correct or not. Nowhere did the OP say ANYTHING about making changes.

davidg See Profile had to jump in with no help at all saying the OP should not even be removing the cover. Well, that is the time I EXPECT people to ask questions and that is what the forum is here for. I also agree that code books and other forms of education are probably better than here, except in the case of whiz and nunya answering specific questions.

It is davidg See Profile who is in the wrong here stating what he did. The posts that garys_2k See Profile and mattmag See Profile are right on in my opinion. If I open something up and am not sure what it is I am seeing, I am going to ask a question. I would hope folks here would at least be a little more hospitable and at the very least just point me in the right direction to learn. Not the smartass comment he made.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

said by Hagar:

I am a curious person and have lived in many places in the world. Some of them did not have a neutral to ground connection in the main panel. Maybe they had a connection upstream at the pole. The last place I saw no neutral ground connection had a whole house GFI. One lab I visited had two grounds, regular ground that was connected to neutral and reference ground that was not.

It would be a mistake to think that all power distribution systems around the world are the same as the system used in the United States. As you list your location as Sunnyvale, CA; I based my response to your question on the system used in the US. That by no means should imply that all electrical systems have the neutral and ground bonded as is required with our system.

Don't think it is correct everywhere in the US.
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

1 recommendation

said by AVD:

Don't think it is correct everywhere in the US.

Citation...?


davidg
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
reply to ropeguru
i said if he does not know the answer to a very basic electrical question then he has no business in the panel UNTIL HE LEARNS. you don't learn by poking around in a live panel. whether you feel that way or not, it does not make my posting a warning to him wrong.
--
Lack of Preparation on YOUR Part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on Mine!


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

1 recommendation

said by davidg:

i said if he does not know the answer to a very basic electrical question then he has no business in the panel UNTIL HE LEARNS. you don't learn by poking around in a live panel. whether you feel that way or not, it does not make my posting a warning to him wrong.

This is my last reply on this.

Where did he say he was POKING around in the panel? His statement was that he removed the panel and found the ground connected to the neutral. I can see that clearly without poking around in my panel.

So riddle me this, do you go and find a book and read up on everything before you ever remove a cover? I doubt it..

Also, just a little more respect in the WAY you reply would have averted all this.


davidg
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
in many panels an uneducated eye is not going to catch a N-G connection without really looking. in a panel where they are both on the same block it is obvious, but in a large number of panels they are on seperate blocks and you have to notice the bonding screw to see it.

as far as how i answered, i was more respectful than you have been. ever hear of someone posting from a tablet, i dunno about you but when i do my posts are brief.
--
Lack of Preparation on YOUR Part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on Mine!

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric

3 recommendations

He just asked a simple question, it wasn't like he said "Hey guys, I want to entirely rewire my house. I'm almost done and now I have some questions." He noticed something "in the place I currently live" that was puzzling and he asked about it. He wasn't unfamiliar with wiring and from his POV that bonding didn't seem "right." At no time did he say he was going to mess with it, change it or try to "fix" it.

He asked a simple question. Hollering about somehow not being qualified to open the panel was over the top -- as if someone asking why the occasional word is spelled with "i" after "e" shouldn't be allowed to write.