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mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH

[Line Problem] Bizzare DSL problem - some sites load, others don

Yesterday night I started noticing that some web sites started to fail to load, sites such as:

cnn.com
steampowered.com
clevelandgasprices.com
google.com (intermittent)

However, some web sites always have loaded flawlessly. I am absolutely stunned at why I'm only able to access some sites. I spent an hour with AT&T on the phone, all I got was that Level 2 said there were "issues" with my line, and they needed a tech to look at it.

What confuses me is this - why some sites load fine, and others lock up. I checked this with different computers both hard-wired and via my wifi connection.

For the record, I am using a 2Wire modem. Here are the connection details:

DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate: 2272 kbps
Upstream Rate: 512 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 6.0 dB (Downstream) 22.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 45.8 dB (Downstream) 27.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 17.4 dBm (Downstream) 10.6 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0x0F} Vendor: {ALCB} Specific: {0x00}
PVC Info: 0/35


Does that look like a bad connection? I'm connected at something like 2200kbps down and 500k up.

I am just absolutely gobsmacked why some sites load and other's dont. When I do a ping with the -t switch, those sites that don't load tend to alternate between an OK ping and a "request timed out".


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH

Re: [Line Problem] Bizzare DSL problem - some sites load, others

Just did a little searching - am I correct that the 6dB downstream noise margin is "really bad" and that the 17.4dB of output power means that the DSLAM is effectively "screaming" to try and hit my modem?



JBeenK

@sbcglobal.net
reply to mrcutter

I'm having the EXACT same problem in Cleveland. Some sites load, others don't. It's driving me nuts.


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH

NO WAY! This could be a regional issue?!



d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
kudos:7
reply to mrcutter

said by mrcutter:

Just did a little searching - am I correct that the 6dB downstream noise margin is "really bad" and that the 17.4dB of output power means that the DSLAM is effectively "screaming" to try and hit my modem?

Correct, but that shouldn't cause site loading problems UNLESS you were having heavy CRC errors. Sites that have a lot of advertisements pulling in from advertising servers around the country could have troubles loading.

Alternatively your traffic to the problem sites might be having problem with the servers and backbone in between.

Ping problems would tend to favor the latter suggestion. Tiny pings usually aren't affected by CRC errors. They slip through.

Try tracerts to the sites and compare the routs of the good with the bad.
--
TCE Weather -- Mt. Rose Cam

mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH
reply to JBeenK

For any other Clevelanders having AT&T DSL problems out there, list sites that do and don't load. We might be able to find a pattern to what's going on we can submit over to the AT&T direct form.

I'll do a little checking tomorrow morning as far as the traceroutes go.

Come on gang, we have a mystery to solve!



PCovault

@sbcglobal.net

Same problem here, Cleveland Heights AT&T DSL. Some sites just never load. I will try to make a list of the sites. This been happening all day today.



PCovault

@sbcglobal.net
reply to mrcutter

Same problem here, sites just fail to load, it's been going on for the past day or two. I will try to keep track of the sites that don't load.



David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
reply to mrcutter

it might help to post traceroute results to those sites as well.


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH

Huh, it didn't let me post, that's probably because I had a ton of URLs.

It looks like there's a problem in the Traceroute for offending sites after something called "cgcil03jt.ip.att.net". It just seems to hit seemingly random IP addresses after that.


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH
reply to d_l

DL - when I look at my details log for the broadband connection I see zeros across the board and no indication of a real communication problem. I am increasingly convinced there is a problem with AT&T's network in Cleveland, and it's an insidious one at that.

I use the term "insidious" because I think a lot of people are used to the network status as a one or a zero - it works or it doesn't. When some sites work and others don't, it gets put into an odd area in between. Some users may, by luck, never see this problem, and others may see if all the time.

I am hoping to gather more information, then make my case to AT&T over in the direct forums. I appreciate the complexity of networking, and want to provide time to gather information that may be able to assist AT&T's technicians and engineers.


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH
reply to David

Here are some sites with packet loss averaged over a half-minute, done by using the "ping (url) -t" command:

www.google.com - generally OK, 4% packet loss
www.clevelandgasprices.com - generally no-go, 10% packet loss
cdn2.steampowered.com - never loads, 39% packet loss
www.apple.com - loads fine, 39% packet loss
www.wunderground.com - loads fine, 0% packet loss
www.accuweather.com - loads fine, 0% packet loss

And here are a few traceroutes from the "offending" sites:

cdn2.steampowered.com:

Tracing route to cds.d3e8g2h5.hwcdn.net [205.185.216.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 45 ms 46 ms 46 ms adsl-76-241-79254.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net [76.241.79.254]
3 45 ms 46 ms 48 ms dist2-vlan50.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net[66.73.21.66]
4 47 ms 46 ms 46 ms bb2-g3-0-0.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net [151.164.103.200]
5 120 ms 82 ms 129 ms cgcil03jt.ip.att.net [12.122.84.53]
6 * 53 ms 56 ms 192.205.37.174
7 59 ms 64 ms 60 ms 38.122.180.106
8 53 ms 54 ms 54 ms 209.197.20.14
9 * * 57 ms 205.185.216.10

Trace complete.



It's like after that "cgcil03jt.ip.att.net" it ends up routing me all over the place. That's really strange.



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to mrcutter

said by mrcutter:

Just did a little searching - am I correct that the 6dB downstream noise margin is "really bad" and that the 17.4dB of output power means that the DSLAM is effectively "screaming" to try and hit my modem?

It's been a while since I was on regular ADSL.

6dB s/n is usable.

As I recall, I had an attenuation around 56dB, so I was near the end of the line. The output power was usually in the 12-14 range. So, yes, the high output power in your case hints at a noisy line and an attempt to drown out the noise.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.2; firefox 17.0

mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH
reply to mrcutter

If it is, in fact, on their side, I hope they can get it resolved sooner rather than later. I am surprised their system is unable to detect and automatically send someone to fix these problems if it does indeed involve some part of their backbone. Or at least let people know "Hey, some customers are having issues, we're going to work on it."

I've been an AT&T DSL customer for several years, and I've ran into problems once and awhile, but they've always been able to get things fixed. I hope this is the case here.



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by mrcutter:

If it is, in fact, on their side, ...

It could also be a problem in the wiring in your house (or apartment).
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.2; firefox 17.0

mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH

Ok NW, here's something interesting: I am starting to see some additional data errors on my broadband link statistics. Here is the transmit and recieve data information since I booted the modem last night:

IP Bytes Packets Errors
Transmit: 26485840 208076 0
Receive: 404923276 314899 0
 

Collected for 19:24:36
Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since Last Event
ATM Cell Header Errors: 90 90 0 18:24:55
ATM Loss of Cell Delineation: 86 86 0 18:24:55
DSL Link Retrains: 1 1 0 18:24:54
DSL Training Errors: 0 0 0 0:00:00
DSL Training Timeouts: 0 0 0 0:00:00
DSL Loss of Framing Failures: 2 2 0 18:24:55
DSL Loss of Signal Failures: 2 2 0 18:24:55
DSL Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
DSL Loss of Margin Failures: 2 2 0 18:24:55
DSL Cumulative Errored Seconds: 2 2 0 18:24:55
DSL Severely Errored Seconds: 2 2 0 18:24:55
DSL Corrected Blocks: 110 110 0 1:28:00
DSL Uncorrected Blocks: 88 88 0 18:24:55
ISP Connection Establishment: 1 1 1 0:01:12

Any thoughts? Now I am seeing more issues that does make me think it could be a signal issue - which would be internal wiring, or the aging copper going to the DSLAM.

Still don't understand why some data gets through and others have no chance. Geographic distance makes it harder to route? More complicated sites have problems?


nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

If you are in a house, you should have a NID box. Connect your modem to the NID box for a while, and check the statistics if you can. That will help determine whether the problem is in the house wiring or the telco lines.

If you are in an apartment, that might not be possible.

As for why some sites get through - shorter packets are more likely to get through than longer packets. The larger the packet, the greater the chance that it will be damaged by dsl errors.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.2; firefox 17.0


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH
reply to mrcutter

Well, AT&T is going to check at the apartment NIC this week - the board where all the wires connect. Something got bumped or knocked off there awhile back and it caused problems. That might be what it is. (I hope so, actually.)



d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
kudos:7
reply to mrcutter

Your posted stats don't contain the massive CRC errors that would be necessary to cause web site failure to load problems.

In light of the fact that others in your area are reporting the same problem, I think you can conclude that it is a routing issue.
--
TCE Weather -- Mt. Rose Cam


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH

1 edit
reply to mrcutter

Holy smokes, it just seems to have went away. It's like it's completely back to normal! I don't want to jinx it, we'll see how long it lasts.

I checked my modem, no real changes in noise margin or anything like that.


mrcutter

join:2012-12-29
Cleveland, OH

3 edits
reply to mrcutter

Aaaaand it's back to being screwy. And I cancelled my appointment since it was seemingly normal for a few hours.

UPDATE, THREE HOURS LATER: And now it's back to "normal". This has been a weird weekend.


twoody

join:2013-01-04
Cleveland, OH

Stumbled upon this thread and figured was a good enough time to finally register to post after a few years. Noticed the same issue as you and others around the same time mostly with Steam but can't say about the others as of those listed I only use Google otherwise. Web wise and through their front end it's been sluggish to non-responsive but on downloads everything is full speed. Doubt it coincides with their year end sale as it wasn't a issue during prior events. Usually see cdn2.* throttling for a few seconds instead of just loading as it should do. Figured it was just my AV going wonky lately so nice to see it wasn't that.

I only noticed the issue after I swapped out gateway units back on the 9th or 10th as my old 2700B finally died after 7 years. I wasn't going to wait on a replacement ps so just swapped in one of the newer 4111N's off the shelf that weekend and that's about the only site I've noticed issues with so far from your list. Although one night on a heavy download on Steam it reset the unit until I adjusted their line speed setting. Just chalked it up to using the unit as a router now unlike previously when I used the 2700 as a bridge to a router.



David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
reply to mrcutter

you can still technically use the 4111n as a bridged type of modem. just put your router behind it and go into the 4111n and specify your router as a dmz+ device and reboot both.

That's what I do with a 2701HG-B now and I have a dual-wan hotbrick router.