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snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

[speed/latency] hard to stay above 'dial-up' speeds - VZ direct

Most of the month of November I have experienced the following speeds:
2:17 PM 11/6/2012
Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 32 160
Margin (dB) 17.0 24.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 31.3 21.0
Transmit Power (dBm) 12.0 11.9

5:07 PM 11/26/2012
Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 32 160
Margin (dB) 20.2 14.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 29.6 19.0
Transmit Power (dBm) 12.0 11.9

What I can't figure out is my Margin and Line Att are not THAT bad. There not real good but don't expect them to be at the line distance I'm from the CO. The Westell 6100 modem I've had; well can't see it being the problem because between May and October it held up with 1184/448 speeds and gave me NO problems...didn't even have to re-boot the modem to re-connect because of speed/connection issues! Solid and consistent up/down speeds.

so I posted to VZ direct forums and vz JudeL helped me on 12.3.12 get the speeds back to where they were in May 2012:

Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 1184 448
Margin (dB) 18.0 22.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 32.3 19.0
Transmit Power (dBm) 6.1 11.9

Well..it didn't last but 10 days! Something here at the CO in my small town that leads me to believe I'm on the short end of a DSLAM card. They must like to take it from me and use it for ???? So I'm left in the Dial-up era again. Can it be a capacity problem? Kinda doubt it. In the meantime, can anyone here help me?

7:02 AM 12/13/2012
Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 32 160
Margin (dB) 9.3 20.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 30.5 19.0
Transmit Power (dBm) 12.1 11.8

Thanks


Demonfang

join:2011-04-21
Spring Mills, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME

Re: [speed/latency] hard to stay above 'dial-up' speeds - VZ dir

what i notice is that when your line drops to 32kbps (which is actually below common 56kbps dial up), that your downstream noise margin is dropping a bit, such as the last set of stats where it's only 9.3. i would have to say there is an intermittent noise issue on your line that verizon needs to fix.
to confirm this, whenever it drops back down to 32kbps, check the noise margin to see if it's at ~6-7 or so; if it is, then something on the line is creating noise issues.


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·Hollis Hosting
·G4 Communications
reply to snailmail
Agree with Demonfang See Profile while it is normal for margin and speed to change a little to go from 1184 kbps with 18dB margin to only 32kbps with 9dB indicates a severe problem. Margin should increase in response to reducing bit rate. In your case data rate had to be reduced all the way to 32kbps to squeak by with only 9dB margin.

Is there a phone on this circuit? If so how is voice quality, any noise especially when phone is first picked up? What about crosstalk, other voices? If quality is not up to snuff call voice repair to have the line checked.

May want to double check problem is not being caused by your own devices or inside wiring. Try temporarily plugging modem into phone company NID test jack to see if problem goes away. If so something within your residence either wiring or equipment is degrading DSL.

Good Luck.

/tom


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Hey, thanks guys for the response!

Is there a phone on the circuit?
No, just dry-loop dsl and has been that way for almost a year.
My own devices causing the problem?
Will not rule that out..westell modem #6100 worked for more than 3 years and did just great for the 6 month period where I received 1184/448 solid. VZ man checked the NID, inside wiring checked, down the street box was inspected and I did get re-routed to ?? and this is how I believe I was able to get 1mb down speed. Or maybe they hooked me into some different component at the CO...doo noo. After several reboots of the modem just after reading your posts, I got the following:

Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 864 160
Margin (dB) 2.5 31.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 32.3 18.0
Transmit Power (dBm) 17.8 11.9

NEVER seen the Margin this low! Almost bet it's somewhere between my NID and the CO. Have not had ANY disconnect-reconnect issues.

Think I'll just be happy with 864kb's and hope Margin goes back around 25-30db. Still enjoyed 6 months and then the 10 days of 1184/448kbs...man, that was FAST.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI

1 recommendation

reply to snailmail
Even though its a dry loop line go ahead and plug a phone into the circuit when its acting up. Use a filter on that phone as if you had voice service. Pick up the phone when its acting up. You won't get a dial tone but you will either hear a recording saying you cannot make calls or something to that effect or a fast busy then silence depending on your CO and dryloop configuration. Listen for static , cross talk, or humming on the line. If any of these are present you will need to get a truck roll (check again at the demark/NID to confirm outside line issue). Another thing to try why its acting up is leave that phone off the hook and reboot modem (try to reboot while the recording is running voltage is highest in the circuit at this time). If speeds / sync come back up / margin improves you have a high open in the circuit. Leaving phone off hook maintains a standby voltage in the line and generates a sealing current temp fixing the high open.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
reply to snailmail
Awww, don't settle for that! Get your 1Mbps back and make sure the line's running solid. You don't want it becoming worse as time goes on!


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Thanks Mr Smith I could not take 32kb/160kb for even a minute!
first day of 2013 modem info:

Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 864 160
Margin (dB) 4.0 31.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 32.3 18.0
Transmit Power (dBm) 17.8 11.9
I've seen Margin as high as 28db. Video works great with no buffering at all even at 864kb.

Have no phone to plug into jack and if I do disconnect phone jack, I'll probably loose my connection and have to call up VZ India to have them reset it.


Demonfang

join:2011-04-21
Spring Mills, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
sounds like you might have loose connections somewhere, or something going bad, based on the margin going all the way from 4.0 to 28.0 (it should be at 28 or so based on your estimated line length and attenuation).

what i would check right off the bat: try different phone cable between jack and modem. failing that, replace the wall jack. if no major improvement, test out at the nid (the box where all the phone wires go to) and see if there's any improvement in margin stability. if there isn't, then you need to get verizon to fix their wiring.

if you need to call verizon to fix stuff, and are tired of the subhumans, call 1-866-376-3216 (enter 0 for extension if it asks).


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Been over in the VZ direct forum again hopefully getting more help. All day yesterday 01.20.13 stuck at 32kb/160kb no matter how many times I would reboot. Demonfang, I did change out phone cable between jack and modem...no change. Also tried a different short Cat 5 between modem and computer...no change. Noticed a package between screen door and front door from VZ. They sent me a wireless router (GT784WNV) to replace Westell 6100 modem. I'll do the switch after I hear from vz_Rudy in direct forum who will hopefully, run another line test. Still believe I'm hooked into a congested DSLAM in the CO and have been for almost a year even though have experienced 1184/448 for almost 5 months in 2012. Go figure.


Demonfang

join:2011-04-21
Spring Mills, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
hope you have some good luck with getting things sorted out.

there is always the possibility of being hooked into a congested dslam, but congestion doesn't usually affect actual sync speeds.

also of note, the gt784wnv is a great unit, i just got one for a second line i set up in my house to get everyone else off a single 3Mbps line, and i must say, it's the best i've ever seen the stats for that line at.


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
So far, after hooking up the VZ gateway yesterday I've had a solid connection through the afternoon, evening and this morning. Holding up to 864/160. Liking this gateway/router. Easy to configure but do miss the transceiver stats I got with the Westell 6100. It does show the connection speed but no Margin, or Line Attenuation. Have you seen these stats? Tnx for your replies


Demonfang

join:2011-04-21
Spring Mills, PA
kudos:1
glad you like the unit. this unit does have stats, just takes a couple clicks to get to them. once you get into the modem, click status, then click wan status on the menu on the left side.


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Just noticed that after a period of 6 or so hours of inactivity, the gateway will not be connected to the CO. All 3 lights are on as well as the #1 ethernet connection. Can't check email or connect to any website. If I reboot, then it does connect until say I come home from work or when I get up in the morning to check email or wx before going to work...then nothing. Wondering if something in the setup is keeping it from staying connected or maybe it could be the Windows firewall settings. Never happened with old Westell 6100. Otherwise happy with the solid connection. Any ideas?


Demonfang

join:2011-04-21
Spring Mills, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
that seems odd. i assume at this point that it is maintaining sync to the co.
... well i was going to add in a thing about checking the always on connection setting, but this gateway doesn't appear to have that -.-

what i would suggest at this point is re-doing the setup for the modem, because that's all i can think of at this point. make sure modem is set to handle any and all dsl stuff, and use dynamic routing in your lan network, and let your gateway handle that as well. that's how i have mine set up, and it works.

i also recommend setting opendns by going to advanced setup, then selecting"WAN IP Settings", and entering the opendns ip's under setting 4. | 208.67.222.222 | 208.67.220.220 |

also, if you want to, post up current transceiver statistics, which can be found under status, and clicking "WAN Status".

i apologize if this post is not all too useful.


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Demonfang,
Got home for 'lunch' today and decided to try your recommendation of changing the WAN IP settings to opendns which I have done a while back with the Westell 6100. Long story short...I couldn't do it with the GT784WNV. Followed your above instructions but the radio buttons weren't active to do it so no-go. Back to work and when I got home, expected to see the gateway just like I explained...connected but unable to bring down a connection to a webpage or check email. Well not this time as it brought up a page the minute I clicked on it!!!
Here's the stats for the first time:

SNR Downstream : 34 dB
SNR Upstream : 31 dB
Attenuation Downstream : 34 dB
Attenuation Upstream : 20 dB
Power Downstream 16.4 dBm
Power Upstream 11.3 dBm

VPI: 0
VCI: 35
Broadband Mode Setting: ADSL
Broadband Negotiated Mode: G.DMT
Connection Status: CONNECTED
Downstream Speed: 864 Kbps
Upstream Speed: 160 Kbs

I know I could handle my old 1184/448 speeds somehow if that switch was flipped by someone...numbers above sure prove my line could take it.

Good post...it was useful to me!
Tnx


Demonfang

join:2011-04-21
Spring Mills, PA
kudos:1
well that's rather odd, my unit allowed me to change them, maybe there's another setting preventing changes.

with those stats, if you wanted to, you could upgrade to 3Mbps.


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to snailmail
For the last 2 weeks things have settled down a bit. Now I'm consistently at 864/160 which gets me by but more important is I don't get disconnected. VZ must have switched or worked on something around the CO and had me run tracert from my computer. One of the hops was showing a time out but now things are looking better. If SNR goes below 10dB I'll have to call someone out for a look. New numbers now :

Downstream Rate:
864Kbps
Upstream Rate:
160Kbps

SNR Downstream : 34 dB
SNR Upstream : 31 dB
Attenuation Downstream : 35 dB
Attenuation Upstream : 20 dB
Power Downstream 14.2 dBm
Power Upstream 11 dBm

We'll see how long this lasts...
Tnx for all the help out there!


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
Looking much better now. If it remains stable get the line set back to a more comfortable 1Mbps.


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Tnx Smith6612. I'm going to give it the rest of this month to see the stability. My plan is "...up to 1MB" and it was at 1184/448 for almost 6 months last year so VZ (and I) knows my line is capable. How do you "get the line set back" other than ask them? or tim_k?


tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:40
reply to snailmail
Hit me up, it'd be no problem putting it back to 1M


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Ok Tim...things are working on my end like there hasn't been a problem at all and it's only been about 3 weeks. Solid connection, haven't rebooted gateway/router. Scarey SNR in the low 30s, Att is what it is as I'm 9k line ft from CO. I'm switched over to Interleave after being on Fastpath.
VZ partial test from 2012 (have more if helpful)

[04/24/12 17:26:34] ===>\; ADSL Loop Data
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Downstream Upstream
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Relative Capacity 20 23
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Noise Margin 21 31
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Transmit Signal Power 5 12
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Attenuation 35 18
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Interleaved Bit Rate 864 160 (in use)
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Intr Max Attainable BR 5184 960 (in use)
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Fast Channel Bit Rate 0 0 (not in use)
[04/24/12 17:26:34] Fast Max Attainable BR 5184 960 (not in use)

What else do you need from me?
MUCH thanks in advance


tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:40
reply to snailmail
You need to PM me your DSL phone #.


snailmail

join:2012-03-25
Bishop, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
tim_k
I'm there!

8:14 PM 2/12/2013
Downstream Speed: 1184 Kbps
Upstream Speed: 448 Kbps
SNR Downstream : 24 dB
SNR Upstream : 25 dB
Attenuation Downstream : 34 dB
Attenuation Upstream : 20 dB

Thank you , Thank you
...and my Border Collie's tail is a wagg'n