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cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

GE panel - 2 breakers in a 1" slot?

I have a GE TM4020 panel, it does not accept the 1/2" breakers.
Is there any alternate breaker that can be used which will fit in the 1" slot and give 2 independent circuits (same leg is OK, I don't need 240V). My panel has 1 slot available and I would like to run 2 new circuits ("nice to have", not "need to have"). I know there are the tandem 2-pole breakers that fit in the 1" slot, but they won't work in my panel.
Alternatively, is there an upgrade/modify kit for the panel to allow the 1/2" breakers to be used?
I will not install a second panel.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

Re: GE panel - 2 breakers in a 1" slot?

According to GE's specs, there's nothing you can do. It only accepts 1" breakers and 2" tandom 2-pole.

I don't think you want to replace the bus bar to support 1/2" breakers.



cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by alkizmo:

I don't think you want to replace the bus bar to support 1/2" breakers.

That wouldn't be completely out of question if an option to support both 1" and 1/2" was available. The ideal way would be a replacement breaker if one is available.


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to cowboyro

Look for GE THQP215 2 Pole 15 Amp Half Size Plug-in Circuit Breaker



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to cowboyro

GE has an odd nomenclature. The TM4020 is actually a 40 space panel. At the time it was manufactured, 42 spaces was the maximum allowed in a residential situation. It will not accept the THQP breakers.
You will not find any listed / approved product to give you more than the existing 40 spaces.

Your 3 options:
1) Filling a 40 space panel in an average residence is hard to do. Make sure that breaker space is being allocated efficiently (E.G. remove "dedicated" circuits that don't really need to be dedicated).

2) Replace the panel with a larger panel. Some new panels come in larger format since the 2008 code change. They are very rare and hard to come by in a residential situation. Siemens, SqaureD, and CH (CH style) all make a 40/60 panel, but they are rarely stocked anywhere. Expect to pay freight from any supply house. Basically, they are a stock 42 can with CTL stabs on the bottom 10, just like a 30/40.

3) Install a sub panel (which you already poo-poo'd).
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by nunya:

Make sure that breaker space is being allocated efficiently (E.G. remove "dedicated" circuits that don't really need to be dedicated).

8 slots are being taken by the heat pumps & air handlers to start with... Then furnace, water heater, dryer, washer, range, microwave, 2 basement circuits... and there goes half of the panel.
I might be able to join some low draw circuits if it comes to that.
I hoped there was a "cheater" breaker to give me 2 circuits from the same stab in 1".
I don't anticipate needing more than 2-3 extra circuits in the foreseeable future so no new panel (replacement or additional).
The other option would have been replacement bus bars if they are available.
Expand your moderator at work


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to jack b

Re: GE panel - 2 breakers in a 1" slot?

said by jack b:

Look for GE THQP215 2 Pole 15 Amp Half Size Plug-in Circuit Breaker

That requires a panel which can accommodate 1/2" breakers, mine can't. The stab is on the middle of the 1" slot.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to cowboyro

said by cowboyro:

I might be able to join some low draw circuits if it comes to that.
I hoped there was a "cheater" breaker to give me 2 circuits from the same stab in 1".
I don't anticipate needing more than 2-3 extra circuits in the foreseeable future so no new panel (replacement or additional).
The other option would have been replacement bus bars if they are available.

So... you're willing to go on a Safari to look for an elusive bus bar that might not exist... and if you find it, dismantle your whole panel to change it?

Yet the above option seems better than joining up a few unnecessary dedicated circuits or add a cheap 100$ subpanel which would add a lot of extra room for the future?

Is it a money thing? Because IF there is a bus bar out there, it WILL cost as much as a subpanel.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:6
reply to cowboyro

Let me save you the trouble...there are NO busbar replacements available for commodity electrical panels, especially for what you're trying to do.

None.



cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

Yet the above option seems better than joining up a few unnecessary dedicated circuits or add a cheap 100$ subpanel which would add a lot of extra room for the future?

There is no physical space for a subpanel.


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting

I'd install a "relief" panel for the HVAC equipment (near the HVAC equipment). One nice thing about the TM4020 is it is rated for 175 or 200A branch breakers.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to cowboyro

said by cowboyro:

There is no physical space for a subpanel.

There is always a way.
Nunya's idea seems good, one big ass gauge wire feeding a panel next to the HVAC for all the HVAC's circuit.

I'm betting we're looking at a 2-pole 100A breaker and some nasty 3AWG 4-wire AC90.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to cowboyro

My current panel is next to the the HVAC system.
I will just join some branches, thanks.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

I'd install a "relief" panel for the HVAC equipment (near the HVAC equipment). One nice thing about the TM4020 is it is rated for 175 or 200A branch breakers.

It is amazing how the most simple solution can be elusive. I have a similar issue as the OP where I need a 220 slot to run a "proper" 220 to my garage. My heating/cooling takes 6 slots in my panel. Moving those to a "relief" panel, as you called it, would be a great solution.

What amperage panel would be needed to accomadate three 220 breakers @ 60 amp, 30, amp and 30 amp? I am not familiar with the steps in panel sizes.

I have a Cutler Hammer ch32b200j and it looks like it will take up to 150 AMP branch breakers.

»www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/···ab01.pdf


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to cowboyro

For adding an HVAC panel in an existing home, I would probably use the standard method since most heatpumps run with the auxiliary heat in defrost mode. You would use the nameplate rating of each appliance to calculate the load.
125% of the largest motor (probably the biggest HP compressor) + 100% of everything else (including non-motor load). You'll probably want some wiggle room too.

If you don't have heatpumps, you can size it off the electric furnace and leave the A/C out since they won't be running at the same time.

Add up your KVA and divide by 240V or 208V (not 220, we use 240V or 208V for most residences here in the USA).

Just an example: If you had a 20 kW electric furnace, and a 4 ton HP that was 23.6 amps (21.2A compressor), your feeder would need to be 110A, you could get by with a 125A sub panel and never add anything to it.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.