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Canadian Chat → LCBO to open "Express Kiosks" in ON grocery stores

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donoreo Premium Member join:2002-05-30 North York, ON	donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 11:54 am LCBO to open "Express Kiosks" in ON grocery stores »www.thestar.com/news/can ··· rmarkets So small LCBOs with the top selling items in grocery stores.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 11:54 am ·
elwoodblues Elwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in	elwoodblues Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:00 pm Re: LCBO to open "Express Kiosks" in ON grocery stores Nice shot across Tea Party Tim's bow .
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:00 pm ·
donoreo Premium Member join:2002-05-30 North York, ON	donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:02 pm Yep. Partially gives what he wants and keeps the LCBO. Seems win win. The grocery stores do not make profits on liquor, but they do on renting the space.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:02 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone to donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:02 pm to donoreo Too little too late.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:02 pm ·
donoreo Premium Member join:2002-05-30 North York, ON	donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:05 pm said by Gone: Too little too late. This is the government, it has probably been in planning for 10 years
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:05 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:14 pm The wine and beer market should have been opened up decades ago. It was one one of the campaign planks of David Peterson for Christ's sake! The Soon-to-no-longer-be-McGuinty Liberals know that people want this, but can't do it the way it should be done without losing face to the Tories. As a result, we end up with half-assed efforts like this. I have no issue with hard liquor remaining the realm of the LCBO, but monopolizing wine and beer through them was bloody ridiculous back in the 80s, let alone today.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:14 pm ·
Thane_Bitter Inquire within Premium Member join:2005-01-20	Thane_Bitter to elwoodblues Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:25 pm to elwoodblues Yes, normally he has his own canons pointed direct at his own ship.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:25 pm ·
elwoodblues Elwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in	elwoodblues to Gone Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:28 pm to Gone The problem is politically agnostic, the moral minority will make enough noise that the politicos will back down.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:28 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:39 pm said by elwoodblues: The problem is politically agnostic, the moral minority will make enough noise that the politicos will back down. I'm sure DKS will say something different, but the position of the moral minority on this issue is contrary to the majority public opinion when it comes to removing the LCBO's monopoly on wine and beer. We're still living in the puritanical dark ages and in a league shared with US states like Utah - yes, Utah - on this issue. Outright privatizing the LCBO is another matter entirely. Most people have a cloudier and harder to define opinion of that, and most US states operate either government-owned stores for hard liquor or operate a government-owned distributor as they end up being a cash cow for the government. Keeping the LCBO for hard liquor would be within the realm of normal as far as North America goes. Wine and beer is not.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:39 pm ·
elwoodblues Elwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in	elwoodblues Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:42 pm said by Gone: said by elwoodblues: The problem is politically agnostic, the moral minority will make enough noise that the politicos will back down. I'm sure DKS will say something different, but the position of the moral minority on this issue is contrary to the majority public opinion when it comes to removing the LCBO's monopoly on wine and beer. We're still living in the puritanical dark ages and in a league shared with US states like Utah - yes, Utah - on this issue. But that's the rub, you and I agree that there should be change, and really don't say much else. Those who disagree are the most vocal and create enough noise to scare off the most politically astute from doing so.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:42 pm ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON	DKS to elwoodblues 2012-Dec-31 12:46 pm to elwoodblues said by elwoodblues: The problem is politically agnostic, the moral minority will make enough noise that the politicos will back down. I disagree. There are already wine stores in grocery stores. This is just competition. The difference will be that hard liquor and beer will also be sold in those stores, which is identical to LCBO Agency stores (which are mini-LCBO's in convenience stores).
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:46 pm ·
DKS	DKS to Gone 2012-Dec-31 12:47 pm to Gone said by Gone: said by elwoodblues: The problem is politically agnostic, the moral minority will make enough noise that the politicos will back down. I'm sure DKS will say something different, but the position of the moral minority on this issue is contrary to the majority public opinion when it comes to removing the LCBO's monopoly on wine and beer. We're still living in the puritanical dark ages and in a league shared with US states like Utah - yes, Utah - on this issue. This isn't a matter which should be decidied by popular opinion. It's a matter of public health, public policy and taxation and should be decided as such.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:47 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 12:58 pm said by DKS: This isn't a matter which should be decidied by popular opinion. It's a matter of public health, public policy and taxation and should be decided as such. Public policy and taxation is determined by the the public at large that elects our leadership. This is an issue that the public at large are widely in favour of, and therefore public policy should reflect the will of that public. As for the health claims, that's a straw argument. An alcoholic on a bender can get beer just as easily now from The Beer Store as they could from anywhere else selling it. The only difference now is that one company has a legally-granted monopoly to sell that beer on behalf of the LCBO. Whether they get that beer from The Beer Store or Sobeys is irrelevant. For what it's worth, and as I said earlier, I do not believe that hard liquor should be sold anywhere but in the LCBO we have right now. Hard liquor is the biggest concern when it comes to taxation and the health issues you mentioned earlier. Keeping those sales at the LCBO is consistent with the way most other jurisdictions operate throughout North America. We have the LC in Canada, they have the ABC in the US.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 12:58 pm ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON	DKS 2012-Dec-31 1:03 pm said by Gone: said by DKS: This isn't a matter which should be decidied by popular opinion. It's a matter of public health, public policy and taxation and should be decided as such. Public policy and taxation is determined by the the public at large that elects our leadership. Um... no, they aren't. Health matters are decided on the basis of evidence. And in case your momma never told you, alcohol is bad for your health. As for the health claims, that's a straw argument. Not at all. The cost of alcohol to the health care system is astronomical. An alcoholic on a bender can get beer just as easily now from The Beer Store as they could from anywhere else selling it. That is an access issue, not a health care policy issue.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:03 pm ·
Wolfie007 My dog is an elitist Premium Member join:2005-03-12	Wolfie007 to donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 1:13 pm to donoreo The article says they will start with a pilot project in 10 grocery stores located in areas "underserviced" by the LCBO. While it may be a good idea in principle, I doubt I'll see them any time soon as any of the half-dozen grocery stores I might go to these days are at most within a few blocks of an LCBO, if not a few feet. The humorous part is how the province still tries to engage in the incredible hypocrisy of pretending that the LCBO is about preventing alcohol abuse. There are so many of them around that I can't think of where these "underserviced" areas are, unless the LCBO considers a block or two to be too much of a challenge for the busy alcoholic in a hurry! Maybe in pursuit of their awesome mission of "social responsibility", the new kiosks will be open 24/7, since 10am to 10pm 7 days a week still leaves too much money on the table! To be clear, my only problem with any of this is the utter hypocrisy used to justify the government monopoly and its pricing structure.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:13 pm ·

milnoc join:2001-03-05 Ottawa	milnoc to donoreo Member 2012-Dec-31 1:20 pm to donoreo Ontario is finally catching up to Quebec?
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:20 pm ·
digitalfutur Sees More Than Shown Premium Member join:2000-07-15 GTA	digitalfutur to Wolfie007 Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 1:21 pm to Wolfie007 Agreed. The LCBO is trying to sell as much as it can, complete with its own marketing director. The more it sells, the more revenue for the government. Apparently, only government employees have the intelligence to verify someone's ID. Where are the government-run cigarette stores?
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:21 pm ·
urbanriot Premium Member join:2004-10-18 Canada	urbanriot to donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 1:24 pm to donoreo "no! no! please keep us in power!! Here's a press release to keep you happy!"
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:24 pm ·
Last Parade join:2002-10-07 Port Colborne, ON	Last Parade to digitalfutur Member 2012-Dec-31 1:25 pm to digitalfutur said by digitalfutur: Where are the government-run cigarette stores? The government would not be caught dead doing this.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:25 pm ·
donoreo Premium Member join:2002-05-30 North York, ON	donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 1:26 pm said by Last Parade: said by digitalfutur: Where are the government-run cigarette stores? The government would not be caught dead doing this. That is an idea, have to buy your smokes from LCBO
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:26 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone to DKS Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 1:56 pm to DKS said by DKS: Um... no, they aren't. Health matters are decided on the basis of evidence. And in case your momma never told you, alcohol is bad for your health. You said three things - public health, public policy and taxation. You are now arguing only one of those issues - the health aspect - but not the other two, but bringing the the condescension that goes with having the upper hand in an argument when you do not. Are you admitting your claims about public policy and taxation were made in error and your only real argument is health? said by DKS: That is an access issue, not a health care policy issue. And, as I'm sure any reasonable adult never needed their momma to tell them, the location where someone obtains their beer doesn't change the impact it has on their health. So what's your argument again?
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:56 pm ·
Gone	Gone to donoreo Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 1:59 pm to donoreo said by donoreo: That is an idea, have to buy your smokes from LCBO If this was an issue of public policy, taxation and health care policy like some others here have claimed, that is exactly what should and would be done. But it's not, and it never has been. Ad Wolfie so eloquently put, nothing but hypocrisy.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 1:59 pm ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON	DKS to Gone 2012-Dec-31 2:33 pm to Gone said by Gone: said by DKS: Um... no, they aren't. Health matters are decided on the basis of evidence. And in case your momma never told you, alcohol is bad for your health. You said three things - public health, public policy and taxation. You are now arguing only one of those issues - the health aspect - but not the other two, but bringing the the condescension that goes with having the upper hand in an argument when you do not. Are you admitting your claims about public policy and taxation were made in error and your only real argument is health? Not at all. Taxation and public policy are legislative matters. But you conveniently forget the negative health impact of alcohol, in your perverse argument to turn this province back a hundred years. said by DKS: That is an access issue, not a health care policy issue. And, as I'm sure any reasonable adult never needed their momma to tell them, the location where someone obtains their beer doesn't change the impact it has on their health. So what's your argument again? You were the one attempting to make the point. I have nothing to prove. Increased access = increased consumption, with consequent negative health and social effects.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 2:33 pm ·
DKS	DKS to Gone 2012-Dec-31 2:35 pm to Gone said by Gone: said by donoreo: That is an idea, have to buy your smokes from LCBO If this was an issue of public policy, taxation and health care policy like some others here have claimed, that is exactly what should and would be done. Which is why health units are responsible for enforcement of laws making selling tobacco to minors illegal.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 2:35 pm ·
peterboro (banned) Avatars are for posers join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON	peterboro (banned) to Gone Member 2012-Dec-31 2:49 pm to Gone said by Gone: said by DKS: This isn't a matter which should be decidied by popular opinion. It's a matter of public health, public policy and taxation and should be decided as such. Public policy and taxation is determined by the the public at large that elects our leadership. This is an issue that the public at large are widely in favour of, and therefore public policy should reflect the will of that public. Successive governments have been elected by public opinion and and the public at large and yet here we are. Seems once in power governments can make responsible decisions on what's best for you. Live with it.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 2:49 pm ·
Wolfie007 My dog is an elitist Premium Member join:2005-03-12	Wolfie007 to DKS Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 3:01 pm to DKS said by DKS: Increased access = increased consumption, with consequent negative health and social effects. That must be why the LCBO has 844 stores and agency stores across Ontario, most open until 10 PM nightly, and is now proposing to open grocery store outlets in addition. In their continuing marketing blitz including advertising and expensive glossy magazines, last year they offered 29,046 free product tastings to encourage consumption. Some of this might be explained by the fact that the LCBO runs a profit margin of more than 50%, and over the past decade provided the Ontario government with almost $13 billion in windfall profit.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 3:01 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone to DKS Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 3:23 pm to DKS said by DKS: Not at all. Taxation and public policy are legislative matters. But you conveniently forget the negative health impact of alcohol, in your perverse argument to turn this province back a hundred years. "Turn back" ? Hah! Thanks for the laugh. The reality is that we're already living 100 years in the past when it comes to alcohol policy in this province. said by DKS: You were the one attempting to make the point. I have nothing to prove. Increased access = increased consumption, with consequent negative health and social effects. Again, another straw argument. These kinds of arguments are made on numerous issues as a way to try and deflect the argument, but they are rarely based in any sort of reality or fact. Increased access would not result in increased consumption - the people who want beer can already get it. They're even encouraged to get it. Hell, it wouldn't even necessarily result in lower prices due to legislated minimum prices on alcohol. It would, however, result in increased customer satisfaction and choice. If you are concerned about access to minors, I would recommend paying a visit to Niagara Falls, NY or Buffalo and try to buy beer at Tops or Wegmans. Be sure to bring your ID with you, because even with your older-than-dirt face they'll still verify your age with ID.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 3:23 pm ·
Gone	Gone to DKS Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 3:24 pm to DKS said by DKS: Which is why health units are responsible for enforcement of laws making selling tobacco to minors illegal. So you're saying you would be okay with downloading the regulation of the sale of alcohol to the local level and allowing the health units of individual upper-tier and single-tier municipalities to determine their own policy with regards to where alcohol is sold and how it is sold?
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 3:24 pm ·
Gone	Gone to peterboro Premium Member 2012-Dec-31 3:27 pm to peterboro said by peterboro: Successive governments have been elected by public opinion and and the public at large and yet here we are. Seems once in power governments can make responsible decisions on what's best for you. Live with it. That, or they've just been liars for the past 25 years.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 3:27 pm ·
Mark I stand with my feet join:2009-07-11 Canada	Mark to donoreo Member 2012-Dec-31 3:44 pm to donoreo And yet nothing about the beer store monopoly. Our entire alcohol distribution and retail environment is nothing short of a farce. And lol at the Finance Minister calling out the official opposition, whose quite right and popular position forced this baby step by our current Nanny statists.
	actions · 2012-Dec-31 3:44 pm ·