Topic 'Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.' in forum 'VOIP Tech Chat' - dslreports.com

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:30:37 EDT

mv posted : Started to experience a similar problem a couple of weeks ago (on the montreal server).

I would call...no ringing would be heard on my end and then suddenly I could hear the person that I'm trying to call say "..llo?? hello!? hello?"

I've been with voip.ms for a couple of years now and they have been solid for me...hope this gets resolved soon (with the new montreal servers they are slated to be putting in...) :\

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Sat, 05 Jan 2013 21:04:51 EDT

SCADAGeo posted :

said by DoctorStinky:

ring indication (or ringback, as it's been referred to here).

"Ringback" is terminology used in the telecom industry, while "early media" is terminology used in the software industry, for the same event.

To-ma-to, to-mah-to, po-ta-to, po-tah-to... :p

said by Stewart:

A very long call setup time is usually caused by the provider's first upstream choice not responding, thus requiring a long timeout before it can route advance to the next carrier.

IMO, a good system should automatically remove the turkey from the routing tables, after a few such occurrences. Then, it should periodically test the path, to know when to put it back online.

The posts by "azmike"'s and "mozerd" on page 1 may yield some additional insight.

The Issue Tracker entries on January 2, 2013, 15:37 EST and January 3, 2013, 13:43 EST may also yield some additional insight.

said by jhouston21:

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse over this issue. I've reported the same issue on behalf of numerous customers using VoIP.ms and I only get repeated suggestions to document the calls that were problematic, turn of stateful packet inspection in router, and check the configuration of the ATA or IP phone which was working fine with VoIP.ms prior to 4 months ago.

While I like the feature set VoIP.ms offers, if they are unable to remedy this issue, it will be difficult to deploy their service with new installations.

By the way, I sent a copy of the previous post in this thread to VoIP.ms tech support and here's what I got back:

quote:
At the moment we don't have any issues with our service. We do experience an issue yesterday with one of our major USA carriers and this caused issues with the outgoing calls to some destinations in USA. However our technicians have already resolve this situation and the service is working properly at the moment.

Please let us know if you still experience this issue at your end.

Thank you.

said by lilarry:

And I too have been extremely frustrated with Voip.ms over the way they seem to handle these issues. They seem to request example after example after example, make you try to prove to them over and over that there is a problem, and then report that they are having no issues - until you are persistent enough for them to admit it and get to work. (Notice I used the word "seem". Read on ...)

I recall reading a post by a member expressing their frustration about not being able to overcome a challenging situation.

The challenge - having the support person make an outbound call during the time frame when an intermittent issue was easily repeatable.

I thought it was a very strange challenge until I realized the member was probably communicating with outsourced level 1 (front line) support.

Standard operating procedures for level 1 support normally includes a checklist (scripted questions and standardized replies), so I have been wondering if there is a communications issue between outsourced level 1 support (Bold Technologies) and in-house support? Or between in-house support and upper management?

Either way, we _know_ upper management is working on the issue - it's just a matter of time, and upper management may not comment on their plans if they consider it proprietary, competitive information.

said by lilarry:

Example: We have another extremely serious issue going on right now (besides this one, and besides the Chicago server which is hiccuping beyond belief) which involves calls dropping (and which I haven't posted about on DSLR ... yet).

The calls dropping symptom has been mentioned, directly and indirectly, by others with high call volumes.

There are other symptoms that haven't been mentioned, yet.

said by lilarry:

It took several trouble tickets and 18 days of trying to prove to them there was a problem before they even bothered to test for it. After their test they claimed they could not duplicate the problem.

I believe it was a post by "IPFaxer" (paraphrased - "You don't call enough") that finally triggered my curiosity, and I was able to duplicate and validate his/her findings.

said by lilarry:

I had to point out the failed calls from their tests that showed up on the CDR before they would admit to a problem (which they now blame on one of their carriers). Makes some sense - but my reseller customers are rightfully upset and the delays in repairing this still unresolved problem are causing me much frustration.

I'm glad you checked the call disposition. :)

said by lilarry:

So while it may seem like I whine a lot here on DSLR, and while I so often get frustrated, I try to cut them some slack over these issues. In reality I have thus far found all of the Voip.ms folks to be extremely well intentioned good people ... and they have an extremely good product offering.

Are there hiccups? Of course. Voip is complicated. That's why I am glad we have this forum so we can bring matters here for discussion (and sometimes a little whining - which helps when frustrated).

I consider it a good sanity check. :)

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:15:02 EDT

jhouston21 posted : lilarry,

You have summed up my frustrations very nicely. All I know is that month after month passes and the problems haven't been resolved. My customers will accept this only so long before they instruct me to put in a VoIP provider that isn't experiencing these issues.

I'm not going to invest further time in submitting tickets to VoIP.ms to document the issues that I've previously reported because it doesn't appear that they've taken action to remedy the problems that I've been reporting for months.

I'd rather see VoIP.ms admit that there is a problem than to continue to state that there is no problem, as the response from them I published earlier indicated.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:05:14 EDT

lilarry posted :

said by jhouston21:

I too have been holding off deploying service for new customers until a couple of problems are solved. And I too have been extremely frustrated with Voip.ms over the way they seem to handle these issues. They seem to request example after example after example, make you try to prove to them over and over that there is a problem, and then report that they are having no issues - until you are persistent enough for them to admit it and get to work. (Notice I used the word "seem". Read on ...)

Example: We have another extremely serious issue going on right now (besides this one, and besides the Chicago server which is hiccuping beyond belief) which involves calls dropping (and which I haven't posted about on DSLR ... yet). It took several trouble tickets and 18 days of trying to prove to them there was a problem before they even bothered to test for it. After their test they claimed they could not duplicate the problem. I had to point out the failed calls from their tests that showed up on the CDR before they would admit to a problem (which they now blame on one of their carriers). Makes some sense - but my reseller customers are rightfully upset and the delays in repairing this still unresolved problem are causing me much frustration.

Now, before it sounds too much like I am bashing Voip.ms, I am not. Is it frustrating? Yes! But here is what I also understand about the situation - and Voip.ms in general:

1. Voip is complicated. There are so many darn nuances, issues, possible quirks and hiccups that issues are extremely difficult to diagnose unless they can be duplicated. This is why the constant requests for more data and examples.

2. Voip is complicated. Voip.ms customer service reps must be bombarded every day with problems presented by amateur users who sign up for service but then have absolutely no idea what they are doing. It is hard for their customer service reps to sort these folks out from the serious resellers and heavy users (some of whom also have no idea what they are doing), so their first response is to think the customer is doing something to cause the problem. (This is why I have been pestering them to set up a seperate priority support channel for serious resellers and heavy users.)

3. Whether dealing with the French-Canadian contingent in Montreal or the Mexican contingent in Merida, English is a second language for the Voip.ms folks (although they are pretty darn good at it), and they are not necessarily used to American culture. I do not mean this as a put down in any way (indeed they have my highest respect for this), but it sometimes does make communications difficult. Often their choice of words may seem like they are casting blame, when, in fact, they are merely seeking additional information in order to do their jobs. This is exacerbated by the fact that (if I haven't made this clear yet) Voip is complicated.

So while it may seem like I whine a lot here on DSLR, and while I so often get frustrated, I try to cut them some slack over these issues. In reality I have thus far found all of the Voip.ms folks to be extremely well intentioned good people ... and they have an extremely good product offering.

Are there hiccups? Of course. Voip is complicated. That's why I am glad we have this forum so we can bring matters here for discussion (and sometimes a little whining - which helps when frustrated).

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:04:01 EDT

jhouston21 posted : I feel like I'm beating a dead horse over this issue. I've reported the same issue on behalf of numerous customers using VoIP.ms and I only get repeated suggestions to document the calls that were problematic, turn of stateful packet inspection in router, and check the configuration of the ATA or IP phone which was working fine with VoIP.ms prior to 4 months ago.

While I like the feature set VoIP.ms offers, if they are unable to remedy this issue, it will be difficult to deploy their service with new installations.

By the way, I sent a copy of the previous post in this thread to VoIP.ms tech support and here's what I got back:

At the moment we don't have any issues with our service. We do experience an issue yesterday with one of our major USA carriers and this caused issues with the outgoing calls to some destinations in USA. However our technicians have already resolve this situation and the service is working properly at the moment.

Please let us know if you still experience this issue at your end.

Thank you.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Thu, 03 Jan 2013 15:05:48 EDT

lilarry posted : Hmmm - I just thought I'd give this issue a test on one of my Vitelity accounts ... and Bingo - same issue.

I called a Cablevision Optimum voice line we have here from a Vitelity account. After about 5 seconds the Cablevision line started ringing with no ringback heard on the Vitelity line. Then, after the 3rd ring, the ring on the Cablevision line stuttered a bit and all of a sudden I started hearing ringback on the Vitelity line and the Cablevision line returned to ringing normally. This amounts to a 20 to 25 second delay in hearing any ringback on the Vitelity line.

I know Voip.ms uses Vitelity for a lot of termination and origination services. I've noticed in the past that when one has an issue the other is often right along there along side with the same or similar issue. Could this be a Vitelity issue rather than a Voip.ms issue? If so, it's time for Voip.ms to give Vitelity a "what-for".

All that being said, occurrences of this issue on Voip.ms have been much less today - thank heaven.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Thu, 03 Jan 2013 14:57:58 EDT

Stewart posted : A very long call setup time is usually caused by the provider's first upstream choice not responding, thus requiring a long timeout before it can route advance to the next carrier.

IMO, a good system should automatically remove the turkey from the routing tables, after a few such occurrences. Then, it should periodically test the path, to know when to put it back online.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Thu, 03 Jan 2013 12:51:46 EDT

DoctorStinky posted : I'm now seeing an extremely long delay on ring indication (or ringback, as it's been referred to here). I'm on the Dallas server if that matters. Ticket's been opened with VoIP.ms.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:34:15 EDT

lilarry posted : It keeps getting better. Now we've got a slew of one-way audio calls. Inbound audio can be heard, outbound audio can not. It started with just originated calls a couple of hours ago ... now it's happening on both originated and terminated calls. I've pretty much run out of fingers to stick in the dyke folks.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:26:55 EDT

mozerd posted : I am having the same issue today and what is really annoying is when I enter the extension number nothing happens.

I was using the Atlanta server --- so I switched back to the Montreal server and now when I enter the extension number it now works but no ring-back when placing the call to this specific client. Now I know that my client very recently switched all their lines from Bell POTS to Rogers VoIP so maybe there is a tie-in to that -- will have to give it some time and see if this sorts out before end of January.

Perhaps there are numerous changes taking place with people switching from Bell POTS to VoIP and the "Telephone System" is having trouble adjusting to all these changes.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:20:35 EDT

MichelR posted : I haven't had any problems on my last few calls - it's pretty much felt like a normal landline for the past few days.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:19:58 EDT

crazyk4952 posted : Please keep us posted on this issue, as I would really like to switch back to voip.ms for my outbound provider when this issue has been resolved.

MartinM, I do not have any examples of this happening. Usually, I would just be so impatient waiting for outgoing calls to complete that I just hang up before completion. Then they do not show up in the call log. :(

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Wed, 02 Jan 2013 12:35:03 EDT

lilarry posted :

said by MartinM:

After finding what I think is the ticket for this customer, we've had our staff trying to replicate the issue in lots of ways. So far we've not been successful but we switched the carrier for the customer.

You found the right ticket - it's me. Changing the carrier has not helped. Indeed it has added a new issue: Now there is a 30 second delay before calls go through.

said by MartinM:

If someone in that thread experiencing this issue could send me an exact scenario on how I could try to duplicate this issue, I would appreciate. (In private)

I've added the CDRs to the ticket. I wish I knew how to duplicate it at will, but it always happens eventually if you make enough test calls. (Damn - I hate intermittent problems).

Martin, I will private message you on this - but I really would appreciate a response this time.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Wed, 02 Jan 2013 11:46:00 EDT

MartinM posted : After finding what I think is the ticket for this customer, we've had our staff trying to replicate the issue in lots of ways. So far we've not been successful but we switched the carrier for the customer.

If someone in that thread experiencing this issue could send me an exact scenario on how I could try to duplicate this issue, I would appreciate. (In private)

Account Number, Number Dialed, Server used, device/software used, timestamp and of course Ticket #, if you don't already have one, please open one.
--
Martin - VoIP.ms

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Wed, 02 Jan 2013 11:14:49 EDT

anon posted : long running problem, recommend you switch carriers, have not had good luck with them for the past few months at all, like an overcapacity problem or bad servers maybe

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Tue, 01 Jan 2013 19:31:15 EDT

SCADAGeo posted :

said by lilarry:

Having lots of intermittent problems lately with not hearing ringback

I'm hoping some of you folks may have suggestions.

I can understand how frustrating it can be when you're a reseller and your customers are complaining.

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do - it's a resource issue at the VoIP.MS servers, and they are working on it:

We have 4 servers almost ready to go for Toronto in a new data center

2 alpha servers in our Montreal.

I wonder if they are accepting volunteers for the late alpha testing phase or beta testing phase?

BTW - I am making the assumption that "alpha servers" are servers in the alpha testing stage, as opposed to having a server with alpha processors (which were awesome for their time).

said by garys_2k:

I think they should be made aware of even transient issues so they get a heads-up about issues. Inconsistent problems are the worst to fix, but they still ought to be on their radar.

It's been on their radar for a while, and the resource issue has been alluded to:

victim of our own success

BOTH problems. Capacity and Data Center reliability.

upgrade capacity for the fast growth

said by lilarry:

I agree. Intermittent problems are extremely frustrating. They really need to be able to duplicate it in order to diagnose, and sometimes just doesn't duplicate at will. You can make 1000 test calls, give up, and then the problem happens on call 1001. That being said, the matter should still be reported. They need to know, and hearing from many customers might help them validate and diagnose the problem.

It's easy to catch programmatically.

Support employees, programmers, sys admins, and others that have access to the systems can use tools such as vmstat, top, iostat, nmon, ipcs, Ganglia, or check the CDR's for call disposition.

said by lilarry:

Meanwhile, I'm just wondering if there's something in the router or network that could be causing this. UDP 10000-20000 is open, SIP-ALG is disabled. What may I be missing?

You're not missing anything.

said by azmike:

I just had to dig a bit more. Here's a capture from wireshark. To be specific it took 13.023 seconds until I heard ringback on this attempt (notice lines 11 and 13).

|0.000 | INVITE SDP ( telephone-event) |SIP From: sip:myvoipmsacct@seattle.voip.ms To:sip:5551231212@seattle.voip.ms

Great job! You've abstracted the server farm (POP), you're treating it as a system (black box), and testing input and output. :D

Your result is pointing directly at the resource issue, and the value is usable as a data point in the creation of a metric.

You will be able to create other metrics if you continue on this path.

said by crazyk4952:

I have had this issue with voip.ms off and on for the last several months (maybe as long as a year), too. I now use a different provider for outgoing calls because of this issue.

It would be great if they could fix this issue so I don't have to maintain balances with multiple providers!

I believe that any good contingency plan would offer multiple options. :)

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 22:50:06 EDT

crazyk4952 posted : I have had this issue with voip.ms off and on for the last several months (maybe as long as a year), too. I now use a different provider for outgoing calls because of this issue.

It would be great if they could fix this issue so I don't have to maintain balances with multiple providers!

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:32:44 EDT

steelingbox posted : Right now all of my devices are registered to tampa, toronto, and toronto2. Keep in mind im only suppose to be registered to tampa, all of my aastra phones are telling me "no service". My cisco devices show "no registration", and the one linksys ata is registered but no ringback tone. WTF!

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:21:04 EDT

Goliath13 posted : Same issue here. It happens on and off. It's pretty frustrating and I'm actively looking for a company to port our 3 DIDs.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:11:56 EDT

steelingbox posted : I have been having the same issue as well but it only happens when voipms has issues with one of their other proxies and registers those customers to the proxy im using. I notice that all of my devices will be registered to tampa, the one I always use, and then to the proxy voipms is having issues with. Once they fix the proxy issues and im only registered to one proxy, my problems go away.
I opened a ticket about it but was told just to change my proxy which does not solve the problem IMO. This has happened to me 3 times in the matter of one month and Im considering porting the 10 numbers I have with them to another provider.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:55:00 EDT

azmike posted : FWIW calls to my cellphone are the only constant at the moment. That is they are taking ~14 seconds. Almost every other call I make is taking 3 or 4 seconds...???

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:08:16 EDT

azmike posted : I just had to dig a bit more. Here's a capture from wireshark. To be specific it took 13.023 seconds until I heard ringback on this attempt (notice lines 11 and 13).

|Time   | www.xxx.yyy.zzz                                      ||       |                   |     69.147.236.82                ||0.000  |         INVITE SDP ( telephone-event)                |SIP From: sip:myvoipmsacct@seattle.voip.ms To:sip:5551231212@seattle.voip.ms|       |(30874)  ------------------>  (5060)                  ||0.110  |         407 Proxy Authentication Required            |SIP Status|       |(30874)  <------------------  (5060)                  ||0.203  |         ACK       |                                  |SIP Request|       |(30874)  ------------------>  (5060)                  ||0.269  |         INVITE SDP ( telephone-event)                |SIP From: sip:myvoipmsacct@seattle.voip.ms To:sip:5551231212@seattle.voip.ms|       |(30874)  ------------------>  (5060)                  ||0.392  |         100 Trying|                                  |SIP Status|       |(30874)  <------------------  (5060)                  ||13.415 |         183 Session Progress SDP ( telephone-event)  |SIP Status|       |(30874)  <------------------  (5060)                  ||13.512 |         RTP (g711U)                                  |RTP Num packets:134  Duration:2.659s SSRC:0xC6D3B1E4|       |(7576)   ------------------>  (14924)                 ||13.638 |         RTP (g711U)                                  |RTP Num packets:134  Duration:2.659s SSRC:0x7D65BC54|       |(7576)   <------------------  (14924)                 ||16.200 |         CANCEL    |                                  |SIP Request|       |(30874)  ------------------>  (5060)                  ||16.313 |         487 Request Terminated                       |SIP Status|       |(30874)  <------------------  (5060)                  ||16.313 |         200 OK    |                                  |SIP Status|       |(30874)  <------------------  (5060)                  ||16.442 |         ACK       |                                  |SIP Request|       |(30874)  ------------------>  (5060)                  |

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:56:18 EDT

MichelR posted : I just realized I had created a ticket about this several days ago, so I just updated it and added a link to this thread.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:02:10 EDT

lilarry posted :

said by MichelR:

I've had this happen on occasion, dating back to February or March - around the time I started using VoIP. It didn't do it for a while, but lately it's been a bit more frequent, and it doesn't seem to matter which server (I've had it happen on montreal, chicago and newyork). The next call usually works fine, so I haven't reported it (yet) because I can't reproduce it "at will".

I've noticed it on and off for quite some time myself, but it has gotten particularly bad over the past couple of weeks.

said by garys_2k:

I think they should be made aware of even transient issues so they get a heads-up about issues. Inconsistent problems are the worst to fix, but they still ought to be on their radar.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:45:36 EDT

garys_2k posted : I think they should be made aware of even transient issues so they get a heads-up about issues. Inconsistent problems are the worst to fix, but they still ought to be on their radar.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:41:27 EDT

MichelR posted : I've had this happen on occasion, dating back to February or March - around the time I started using VoIP. It didn't do it for a while, but lately it's been a bit more frequent, and it doesn't seem to matter which server (I've had it happen on montreal, chicago and newyork). The next call usually works fine, so I haven't reported it (yet) because I can't reproduce it "at will".

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:55:42 EDT

azmike posted : Am having very similar issues. Any outbound call takes roughly 15 seconds until I hear ringback. However the calls do eventually complete.

I just tested by calling my cell phone, ringback and ringing of my cellphone happen almost simultaneously. Again roughly 15 seconds after placing the call. Los Angeles, Seattle, Dallas and New York all exhibit this behavior for me.

Seems to be a recurring voip.ms issue. Oh and by the way Vitelity termination takes about 4 seconds.

Re: [Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:31:35 EDT

XCOM posted : Sorry no issues here.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$

[Voip.ms] No ringback heard on outgoing calls.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:08:27 EDT

lilarry posted : Having lots of intermittent problems lately with not hearing ringback when making outbound calls on Voip.ms. The called phone rings and, if answered, the calls complete, but the caller does not hear any ringback signals - just silence until the call is answered. We're using various Grandstream devices (GXP2100, GXP2124, etc). I have a trouble ticket opened with Voip.ms (no response yet), but I'm hoping some of you folks may have suggestions.