| How to calculate the amperage of paralleled conductors??? In this case it would be 4 number 10 stranded conductors paralleled.
So what awg would that equal???
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| This is a hypothetical question, right?
Are you aware that by code you CANNOT parallel conductors that small?
I realize this does not answer your question, but since it is not allowable by code IMO it is not worth even doing the math.
What are you doing that would require this? |
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garys_2kPremium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI Reviews:
 ·callwithus
·Callcentric
| reply to MatrixHDV
A number 10 wire is 6 mm2, so four of them would be 24 mm2, a bit less than a number 4 wire. »www.landersinc.com/With_fl/Html/···ABLE.pdf |
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TheMGPremium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1 | reply to MatrixHDV
In theory, it would be the sum of the ampacity of all 4 conductors. If the 4 conductors are in close proximity, then the ampacity would also have to be de-rated to take into account the effects of reduced heat dissipation.
As far as the electrical code is concerned, whether it is allowable or not, I can't answer that. |
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| reply to Speedy Petey
said by Speedy Petey:This is a hypothetical question, right? No this is reality.
Are you aware that by code you CANNOT parallel conductors that small?
Now if you can advise how many amps I can push down 4 number tens please let me know, if not then pass over this thread.
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| reply to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:A number 10 wire is 6 mm2, so four of them would be 24 mm2, a bit less than a number 4 wire. Thank you, I calculated the load at 56 amps and that information keeps me well within the margin I have to work with...
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 | reply to MatrixHDV
Its not allowed,even temporarily ( code wise ), the reason is if one of the conductors fails, the it overloads the remaining wires.
As for current carrying ability, its not just the gauge of the wire, but the distance. |
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 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | reply to MatrixHDV
Parallel conductors smaller than 1/0 ARE allowed under the NEC.
Refer to NEC 310.4...
They are also allowed in machines installed in buildings and structures covered under the NEC... |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:Its not allowed,even temporarily ( code wise ), the reason is if one of the conductors fails, the it overloads the remaining wires. BUT IT'S A TEMPORARY SETUP SO CODE DOESN'T MATTER DAMNIT.  
As for current carrying ability, its not just the gauge of the wire, but the distance.
I also wonder if that is 4 total conductors that need split between the line and neutral, or 4 pairs of line AND neutrals. |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8
 ·Charter
 ·surpasshosting
·voip.ms
| reply to MatrixHDV
No.
It's not allowed temporary or not. Just because you don't get the answer you want, you don't have the right to tell people to piss off.
You are a short timer to this site and came here asking for a "how-to" to do something potentially dangerous.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to John Galt
said by John Galt:Parallel conductors smaller than 1/0 ARE allowed under the NEC.
Refer to NEC 310.4...
They are also allowed in machines installed in buildings and structures covered under the NEC... They are NOT allowed except in a few limited exceptions, neither of which apply here. Exception 1 wouldn't as the ampacity of any single conductor isn't enough to carry the total current. Exception 2 doesn't apply because it's not engineering supervised. If it was, the question wouldn't be asked here.
said by NEC 2008 :
310.4 Conductors in Parallel.
(A) General. Aluminum, copper-clad aluminum, or copper
conductors of size 1/0 AWG and larger, comprising each
phase, polarity, neutral, or grounded circuit conductor shall
be permitted to be connected in parallel (electrically joined
at both ends).
Exception No. 1: Conductors in sizes smaller than 1/0
AWG shall be permitted to be run in parallel to supply
control power to indicating instruments, contactors, relays,
solenoids, and similar control devices, or for frequencies of
360 Hz and higher, provided all of the following apply:
(a) They are contained within the same raceway or
cable.
(b) The ampacity of each individual conductor is sufficient
to carry the entire load current shared by the parallel
conductors.
(c) The overcurrent protection is such that the ampacity
of each individual conductor will not be exceeded if one
or more of the parallel conductors become inadvertently
disconnected.
Exception No. 2: Under engineering supervision,
grounded neutral conductors in sizes 2 AWG and larger
shall be permitted to be run in parallel for existing
installations.
FPN to Exception No. 2: Exception No. 2 can be used to
alleviate overheating of neutral conductors in existing installations
due to high content of triplen harmonic currents.
(B) Conductor Characteristics. The paralleled conductors
in each phase, polarity, neutral, grounded circuit conductor,
or equipment grounding conductor shall comply
with all of the following:
(1) Be the same length
(2) Have the same conductor material
(3) Be the same size in circular mil area
(4) Have the same insulation type
(5) Be terminated in the same manner
(C) Separate Cables or Raceways. Where run in separate
cables or raceways, the cables or raceways with conductors
shall have the same number of conductors and shall have
the same electrical characteristics. Conductors of one
phase, polarity, neutral, grounded circuit conductor, or
equipment grounding conductor shall not be required to
have the same physical characteristics as those of another
phase, polarity, neutral, grounded circuit conductor, or
equipment grounding conductor to achieve balance.
(D) Ampacity Adjustment. Conductors installed in parallel
shall comply with the provisions of 310.15(B)(2)(a).
(E) Equipment Grounding Conductors. Where parallel
equipment grounding conductors are used, they shall be
sized in accordance with 250.122. Sectioned equipment
grounding conductors smaller than 1/0 AWG shall be permitted
in multiconductor cables in accordance with 310.13,
provided the combined circular mil area in each cable complies
with 250.122.
310.4 also was moved for NEC 2011 to 310.10(H) FYI. |
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John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | said by cdru:They are NOT allowed except in a few limited exceptions, neither of which apply here.
The larger point is that blanket statements as to what is or is not allowed by the NEC do a disservice to posters in the forum without an understanding of the particular nuances of the Code, or the intended application.
My response addressed that issue, not the OPs query.
--
Don't ask questions -- just do as you're told.
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| reply to MatrixHDV
What is your definition of "temp setup" in this case? |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | said by JustBurnt :What is your definition of "temp setup" in this case?
Temporary setup... yeah right, what needs that much power temporarily?
Considering he needs around 50A, I'm guessing a heat pump or range. |
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| reply to John Galt
said by John Galt:The larger point is that blanket statements as to what is or is not allowed by the NEC do a disservice to posters in the forum without an understanding of the particular nuances of the Code, or the intended application.
My response addressed that issue, not the OPs query.
So by us saying it is not allowed in this case, you think that is doing a "disservice"?? Seriously?? Do you think the OP, or ANYONE else on this forum, might have an application that would be allowed under the exception??
IMO sometimes it is NOT worth the bother to say "It is not allowed, except only under some very rare and odd situations such as ........." |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to MatrixHDV
said by MatrixHDV:I can most certanily can and it's not about code, it's a temp setup and I only have access to the in-place conductors and no possibility of re-pulling new ones. Then the correct answer (to the people who want you to do this) is: No, it cannot be done legally. |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to John Galt
said by John Galt:The larger point is that blanket statements as to what is or is not allowed by the NEC do a disservice to posters in the forum without an understanding of the particular nuances of the Code, or the intended application.
My response addressed that issue, not the OPs query.
How is your response any better? IMHO from a safety standpoint, just saying no they are not allowed and not mentioning that there may actually be exceptions (which don't even apply here) is better than saying yes they are allowed and not mentioning that it's only allowed in a very limited circumstances. |
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| reply to MatrixHDV
@anyone
Hypothetically, what if each of the individual #10 conductors (including any paralled neutrals) was protected by a 30 amp breaker?
(I realize it wouldn't meet code requirements.) |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by Jack Legg :Hypothetically, what if each of the individual #10 conductors (including any paralled neutrals) was protected by a 30 amp breaker? If they meet all the conditions posted above under 310.4(B), they were all connected to the same leg at the panel, and not applying any deratings for various reasons, then you theoretically could have up to 30 amps per conductor. If the wires were different lengths or types, then the resistance differs between them which alters how the current is divided between them, making them unbalanced.
The problem isn't only what you can get out of the wires. It's protecting equipment, property, and people if/when something bad happens. |
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garys_2kPremium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI Reviews:
·callwithus
·Callcentric
| reply to MatrixHDV
said by MatrixHDV:said by garys_2k:A number 10 wire is 6 mm2, so four of them would be 24 mm2, a bit less than a number 4 wire. Thank you, I calculated the load at 56 amps and that information keeps me well within the margin I have to work with... Do you have two circuits that you need to parallel to run a single 56 A load (where the total of four conductors includes two "hots" and two neutrals, EACH being paralleled to two pairs of conductors will carry the total current)? Or, you have four circuits (four hots, four neutrals) that you will parallel to run this load? |
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