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scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT

connection issues

over the last several months I have been having very intermitant internet access. I have been having high latency on ping times,no loads on webpages, buffering on streaming video. I also been having the dsl light turn red several times recently. I look at the logs of the router and I see errors. I have had 2 line techs out and they havent been able to find anything wrong. They replaced the modem once and now a second one is on order. The phone tech havent been able to find anything wrong either. The router is a homerun to the nid on its own circuit with no filters or phones attached. The line is a dry loop. I am hoping someone can help because at this point I am ready to cancel my service and go with a different provider. I do alot of VPN for work and if the connection is not reliable it makes it difficult for me to do my job. Attached are the stats from the router.
Broadband Link – Detailed DSL Statistics

Broadband Link – Detailed DSL Statistics

Troubleshooting – DSL Diagnostics
General Information
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Downstream Rate Cap: 6016 kbps
Downstream Atten. at 300kHz: 36.4 dB
Uncancelled Echo: -14.3 dB Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset: -22.9 ppm Ok
Final Rx Gain: 22.5 dB Ok
Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 0 Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok
Impulse noise protection: 0.00
Delay of latency path: 0.25 ms

Training History
Downstream Upstream
Time Line Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr CRCs FECs INP DLY Rate Max Mgn Attn Pwr CRCs FECs Mode Vendor State Exit Code Echo VCXO Rx Gain INC Tones
2013/01/03 08:12:41 PST 1 6016 6412 3840 4396 7.3 -2.0 37.8 19.8 11390 0 0.00 0.25 512 524 6.0 31.5 12.4 2508 3538 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -11.2 -21.5 24.4 17
2013/01/03 09:23:11 PST 1 5824 5836 5872 5872 6.0 6.0 37.9 19.8 711 0 0.00 0.25 512 524 7.0 31.5 12.4 61 52 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_LOS_LIMIT -15.5 -23.1 25.4 0
2013/01/03 10:30:34 PST 1 6016 6540 6628 6628 7.9 8.0 35.6 19.8 515 0 0.00 0.25 768 844 8.0 31.5 12.4 9 0 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 229/103 N/A -14.3 -22.9 22.5 0

Notes:
Time Time of last update
Max1 Max. rate at start of connection
Max2 Current or final estimated max. rate
Max3 Current or final estimated max. rate without INC
Mgn1 Noise margin at start of connection
Mgn2 Current or final noise margin
DLY

Delay of latency path

Collected for 3:34:59
ATM Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors: 12085 12085 16 0:00:28
Loss of Cell Delineation: 10825 10825 1 0:02:22

DSL
Link Retrains: 2 2 0 1:03:07
DSL Training Errors: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Training Timeouts: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures: 2 2 0 1:03:08
Loss of Signal Failures: 2 2 0 1:03:08
Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures: 137 137 0 1:03:08
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 1536 1536 16 0:00:28
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors: 185 185 0 1:03:08
Corrected Blocks: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Uncorrectable Blocks: 12602 12602 18 0:00:28
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 254 254 0 1:02:49

bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5

Your noise margins at 7.3 -2.0 look suspicious. Check/replace your dsl filters. Better yet, remove all other devices from your telephone wiring. The status page has a more readable readout of the noise margins both up and down. Take a look at things after removing all other devices. Compare the before and after with regards to the noise margin.


scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT

the modem is hardwired to the NID and no filters installed. Seeing alot of CRC errors causing the reset.

Downstream Upstream
Time Line Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr CRCs FECs INP DLY Rate Max Mgn Attn Pwr CRCs FECs Mode Vendor State Exit Code Echo VCXO Rx Gain INC Tones
2013/01/03 08:12:41 PST 1 6016 6412 3840 4396 7.3 -2.0 37.8 19.8 11390 0 0.00 0.25 512 524 6.0 31.5 12.4 2508 3538 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -11.2 -21.5 24.4 17
2013/01/03 09:23:11 PST 1 5824 5836 5872 5872 6.0 6.0 37.9 19.8 711 0 0.00 0.25 512 524 7.0 31.5 12.4 61 52 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_LOS_LIMIT -15.5 -23.1 25.4 0
2013/01/03 12:07:46 PST 1 6016 6540 6596 6596 7.9 8.0 35.6 19.8 905 0 0.00 0.25 768 844 8.0 31.5 12.4 29 0 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 IDLE_REQUEST -14.3 -22.9 22.5 0
2013/01/03 15:03:21 PST 1 6016 6564 4528 5160 8.0 -1.0 35.4 19.8 19983 0 0.00 0.25 768 792 7.0 31.5 12.4 2274 2139 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -14.1 -23.3 23.0 40
2013/01/03 15:21:27 PST 1 6016 6236 4684 5604 6.7 -3.0 35.3 19.8 10680 0 0.00 0.25 768 808 7.0 31.5 12.4 5024 4994 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -13.7 -23.4 20.9 28
2013/01/03 16:00:29 PST 1 6016 6172 6444 6444 6.5 1.0 35.0 19.8 10748 0 0.00 0.25 768 808 7.0 31.5 12.4 28 28 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -13.5 -22.9 22.6 17
2013/01/03 16:55:26 PST 1 6016 6456 6152 6152 7.5 -3.0 35.1 19.8 20493 0 0.00 0.25 768 792 7.0 31.5 12.4 2820 2787 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -13.7 -23.6 21.2 49
2013/01/03 17:27:04 PST 1 4928 4952 2820 3396 6.1 -3.0 35.3 19.7 10642 0 0.00 0.25 768 800 7.0 31.5 12.4 4349 4396 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -13.7 -23.6 20.9 49
2013/01/03 18:01:48 PST 1 5792 5812 6064 6064 6.0 2.0 35.0 19.8 10817 0 0.00 0.25 768 804 7.0 31.5 12.4 141 59 G.DMT Annex A Infineon 230/105 ERR_HI_BER_LIMIT -14.8 -20.2 22.1 6
2013/01/03 18:41:25 PST 1 5792 5820 5724 5724 6.1 5.0 35.1 19.8 4410 0 0.00 0.25 768 768 6.0 31.5 12.4 22 0


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5

said by scottb908:

the modem is hardwired to the NID and no filters installed. Seeing alot of CRC errors causing the reset.

So you are saying the wires are dedicated to your DSL modem and there is nothing else on them? The CRC errors are a symptom, not the problem. The noise margins still look suspiciously low and that alone can generate CRC errors. You need to isolate whether or not its within your premisses or from your ISP; hence my suggestion to remove everything but the modem and check your wiring and connection points.

In the DSL world things (outside your premises) do change that can affect your service. So if nothing has changed on your side, and your modem isn't flaking out, it could very well be on the outside.

scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT
reply to scottb908

the modem is the only thing connected in the house. I disconnected all the other jacks, no filters installed. Nothing has changed inside the house in 5 years, not to say something didnt go bad however nothing obvious that i can see. ive reseated the connections at the jack and wall, as well as the NID.


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5

Then sounds like you have two choices left. Swap the modem if you have a spare or can borrow one temporarily, or call your ISP to get a line check. You can use the above stats to explain what you see if the phone guys don't see it remotely.


scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT

well thanks for the information, i have had 2 field visits and they havent been able to find anything, I have a new modem being sent next week, hopefully that resolves it otherwise im going to have to switch providers.


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5
reply to scottb908

Some additional thoughts after re-reading your orig. post. You state it is intermittent. Have you been able to pin point it to a particular event or time of day? Have you installed any inductive devices in your area? Like fluorescent lights, anything with a compressor, etc. that could be generating line noise? How about an arc welder from a neighbor (stretching it I know, but these are the things to look for). Even a bad door bell if the wires are next to your DSL wires could induce noise. Garage door opening...

These intermittent issues can be a bear to track down and of course when the truck roll comes, it's never at the right time.

Have you asked the technician to give you a new punch down? If the new modem doesn't fix the issue, that would be my next step. You have the stat logs to show them. And yes, dropping and reestablishing VPNs on a iffy line is not acceptable.


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5
reply to scottb908

said by scottb908:

o... I have had 2 line techs out and they havent been able to find anything wrong. They replaced the modem once and now a second one is on order. The phone tech havent been able to find anything wrong either. The router is a homerun to the nid on its own circuit with no filters or phones attached. The line is a dry loop. ...

Were these inside techs or outside techs? Did they check your inside wiring with their TDR meter, etc? What kind of copper is it from the NID-Modem-router? 2 pair, 4 pair? And are the other conductors used for anything else? If not, are they open? Have you checked the voltage across them?

scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT
reply to scottb908

is a 4 pair running to the nid and the second pair is open. I havent measured Voltage, wasnt sure what is considered optimal.


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5

The second (unused) pair voltage (AC and DC) should be dead zero. Don't worry about the voltage on the live pair.

The thinking is that there's a possibility of the second pair inducing noise into the first. I saw a condition once in a similar situation whereby the connector block was bleeding voltage from one pair to the other, thus creating crosstalk between the two even though the 2nd pair was "unused".


scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT
reply to scottb908

what should the noise margins be on an ideal system?


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5

I'm not a tech expert on this but from experience, 6db is minimal to even get a sync. 7-9 is borderline to hold sync. 10 is fair, and anything above that should not be a concern. I would not accept anything less than 10 from my ISP. This also has to be consider in context with other things such as attenuation, etc.

If I recall from your logs you had a -2.0 show up at least once, which I don't understand.


scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT

well i replaced the wire from the jack to the modem with heavy gauge wire. levels came up quite a bit, ill have to watch it now to see if the error count continues.

2013/01/04 13:00:49 PST 1 6016 8128 8128 8128 15.9 16.0 29.3 16.8 0 0 0.00 0.25 768 1076 18.0 8.5 12.3 0 0


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5

Yes! Those 15.9 16.0 numbers look very respectable now. I'm not sure it was the heavy gauge wire itself, but rather 'clean' copper. I'm sure you will be happy with the difference. Everything else looks very good. Well done.


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5
reply to scottb908

Did you also notice your max. rate came up to 8128 solid across the board? Those are respectable numbers.


scottb908

join:2002-07-23
Terryville, CT
reply to scottb908

I did notice the max rate came up but speed tests arent really reflecting it. I am guessing that will be unused overhead? Thanks again for your help


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5

You are most welcome.
Typical speedtest will not show your max rate values. Those will kick in when you do very large sustained block transfers. Most speed tests won't do that amount of data transfer.


bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5
reply to scottb908

I'm not sure if you mention which 2wire you have, but you can try the Internet Connection Monitor (still available in some here) 192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=M01

Runs with Java. Then do a very large file transfer/download that can keep up and you should be able to see how the max. rate kicks in. The tool is great when it works, but it doesn't always work for me, which is why perhaps they stopped officially supporting it - but it's still in the 1700, 2700, 2701 FW.