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silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01
reply to Bob4

Re: Car Accident & Insurance Claim Questions

said by Bob4:

said by tcope:

Correct... you "can" make a claim under your own collision coverage and have your carrier seek recovery. This does not mean that you are required to.

But why would I want to do extra work, when I'm already paying premiums to a company that will do the work for me?

But maybe you can clarify this: If I did NOT have collision and someone ran into me, I WOULD have to deal directly with the other company, right? And what would happen if THEY didn't have collision?

Liability covers the other side. I personally always deal with the other insurance as I don't want anything to be on my insurance history.


drslash
Goya Asma
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Marion, IA

said by silentlooker:

said by Bob4:

said by tcope:

Correct... you "can" make a claim under your own collision coverage and have your carrier seek recovery. This does not mean that you are required to.

But why would I want to do extra work, when I'm already paying premiums to a company that will do the work for me?

But maybe you can clarify this: If I did NOT have collision and someone ran into me, I WOULD have to deal directly with the other company, right? And what would happen if THEY didn't have collision?

Liability covers the other side. I personally always deal with the other insurance as I don't want anything to be on my insurance history.

Your insurance company will know about the claim. Most, if not all, insurance companies share loss data.
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tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

But why would I want to do extra work, when I'm already paying premiums to a company that will do the work for me?

But maybe you can clarify this: If I did NOT have collision and someone ran into me, I WOULD have to deal directly with the other company, right? And what would happen if THEY didn't have collision?

You may not want to deal with the other carrier. That is a valid point. However, if you file with your own carrier they pay less the deductible. Some carriers (not many) will waive the deductible but this is only if the other carrier accepts 100% liability (if they accept 100% liability then it would not be difficult to "deal" with the other carrier anyway). You may not have rental coverage under your own policy. The other carrier would automatically need to pay Loss of Use (rental). Some people may not want to even report a non-fault accident to their carrier (I don't recommend not reporting it) as sometime reporting several of these within a short amount of time can increase rates.

If you did not have collision and needed to file a claim with the other party their liability coverage would address your loss... not their collision coverage. Almost every state requires policies to have liability coverage. But I'd also still recommend that people really consider carrying their own collision coverage even if they think it's more likely someone else will cause the accident. Just to many people driving around without insurance.

Edit: Keep in mind, most of the time the other carrier is no more difficult to deal with then your own company. If liability is clear the claim is really handled the same way if the person is an insured or not. An injury claim is different as the amount payable is much more subjective.

tcope
Premium
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Sandy, UT
kudos:2
reply to drew

said by drew:

This is what the guy at the tow yard said this morning. He claimed it was probably 20-25 hours of work plus new bumper, new quarter panels new good and new headlights.

It's a 2006 with lots of options and only 69378 miles on it. Blue book said a little under 10k private party. Edmunds said like 7k. No idea what to believe. 7-10k seems legit looking at eBay and Craigslist.

Personally, I go by what the tow person says... they just always seem to be right on. Odd, I know. $1250 in labor and I'm guessing $2000 in parts. Add in some and perhaps you are around $4000 in repairs at the most?

Don't look at Edmunds... this is what only dealers use to screw over buyers (heck, their website even states the prices they list are "starting" prices in the negotiation to buy/sell). I'd guess that the value of the vehicle is closer to the $10k amount. A vehicle is a total loss when it's around 80% of it's value.


drslash
Goya Asma
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Marion, IA
reply to tcope

said by tcope:

Some people may not want to even report a non-fault accident to their carrier (I don't recommend not reporting it) as sometime reporting several of these within a short amount of time can increase rates.

Again, loss data exchange by insurance companies means that all participating insurance companies know about all of your claims for the past 7 years and maybe longer.
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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
reply to tcope

Thanks for the clarification.

My insurance company does not raise rates after a claim or a ticket.


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
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reply to drew

If it's totalled, the insurance company will give you what it would cost to buy another 2006 with 69378 miles, plus tax, minus your deductible. If you just had a major expense like putting new tires on it, try to get the insurance company to give you a few extra bucks.


tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2
reply to drslash

said by drslash:

Again, loss data exchange by insurance companies means that all participating insurance companies know about all of your claims for the past 7 years and maybe longer.

To an extent, yes. Most larger companies have an automated system to report all claims. But there are _many_ companies that don't automatically report property damage claims. I know Allstate, State Farm, USAA, Progressive report all claims. Farmers and Travellers might. But there are plenty that don't. But for the most part you should count on your carrier knowing anyway, yes.

(Carfax polls the same resources. This is why not all Carfax reports are correct).


hitachi369
Embrace Your Rights
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join:2001-10-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:4
reply to drew

Without knowing the VIN or specifics I show

Auction Values  
Date Range: 12/31/2012 - 1/6/2013  
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   Low        Average   High
                   Auction    Auction   Auction  
Adjusted Value*:   $5,946     $7,771    $9,621 
 
 

That is where the edmonds quote is coming from.

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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

But the insurance company will give him retail value, not auction value.



drew
Automatic
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

If it's totalled, the insurance company will give you what it would cost to buy another 2006 with 69378 miles, plus tax, minus your deductible. If you just had a major expense like putting new tires on it, try to get the insurance company to give you a few extra bucks.

I put new tires on it less than 30 days ago. And had filled it with a full tank of gas about 10 minutes before the accident. Yay..............
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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
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Work with your insurance company to give you something for the new tires. You'll need a receipt showing the mileage when they were put on. I had the same thing happen and the ins co gave me something like $100 for the tires. Not a lot, but it's better than nothing.

The above is assuming they total the car.


Critsmcgee

join:2011-12-02
Reviews:
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reply to tcope

said by tcope:

However, if you file with your own carrier they pay less the deductible. Some carriers (not many) will waive the deductible but this is only if the other carrier accepts 100% liability (if they accept 100% liability then it would not be difficult to "deal" with the other carrier anyway).

So far it's 3/3 for me with Esurance, Progressive, and Vermont Mutual all waiving the deductible BEFORE the other party accepted liability. They said liability wasn't my problem it was theirs so they just got the car fix for me. They said if for some reason liability was put on me then I'd owe the deductible to them though. Never paid a dime on any of them.

tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2

said by Critsmcgee:

So far it's 3/3 for me with Esurance, Progressive, and Vermont Mutual all waiving the deductible BEFORE the other party accepted liability. They said liability wasn't my problem it was theirs so they just got the car fix for me. They said if for some reason liability was put on me then I'd owe the deductible to them though. Never paid a dime on any of them.

Sorry but this does not make sense as posted. That is, there perhps is a little more to it then this.

Normally your company pays you less your deductible and once they collect from the at fault party they refund your deducible. If they cannot collect then they don't refund the deductible.

What you state is that your carrier "waives" the deductible initially but if they can't collect from the other party they "charge" you your deductible. As you can see, it's really the same outcome either way. The main difference is to the insurance company... how would they ever legally collect the deductible from their insured at a later date? The policy does not allow for this as it states your carrier should have paid less the deductible. If they chose not too... the policy does not then obligate you to repay the deductible. Your carrier's only course of action would be to file a civil suit against you. But then your argument is they your company knowingly and voluntarily paid your deductible so they have no right of action against you for what they voluntarily did (and you'd be correct).

Some companies have "accident forgiveness" or "deductible waivers" for 1st accidents. Perhaps your deductible was waived for this reason. But in that case, your carrier would not have treid to collect it from you later. I'm guessing but I think that might be the only difference from your post... those carrier would not have "billed" you later for your deductible. It was simply waived for what ever reason.

tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

But the insurance company will give him retail value, not auction value.

Depends on the carrier... as to what value the consider.

I don't think it's a total and I don't think either carrier has said it was yet. But if t is, then I'd recommend getting values from both carriers to see who will pay more. You might be surprised. I've worked for carries that average all 4 NADA values to determine value. I've worked for carriers that take the highest retail NADA value and pays this. This can mean a 20% difference in value.

A carrier would rather have you pick one carrier to go through but there is nothing to stop you for "thinking" about filing with each carrier, getting them to give a value, and then picking only one to file with.


drew
Automatic
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6

How can I see what the NADA values are?


tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2

NADA.com (Consumer).



drew
Automatic
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6

Click for full size
Quite the difference in price between the four values. I sincerely doubt they'd pay out $11k for the vehicle.

If they valued it at $7.1k, I could see them totaling it out. Not at $8.5k+ though.
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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

The payout should be $11375 + tax - deductible. Assuming the web site provides real values.

Dealers in New Jersey use Galves, not NADA. I don't know what the insurance companies use.



drew
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Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6

I bought it 3.5 years ago with 32k on it for $13.1k and everyone told me I got robbed.

»[Rave] 2006 Toyota Corolla
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swintec
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Alfred, ME
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reply to drew

Personally I would let my insurance company deal with the issue and the other company. It is part of what i pay them to do twice a year (assuming the customer has full coverage). i dont want to worry if I am doing or saying something wrong that will muck up the process.
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Critsmcgee

join:2011-12-02
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to tcope

said by tcope:

said by Critsmcgee:

So far it's 3/3 for me with Esurance, Progressive, and Vermont Mutual all waiving the deductible BEFORE the other party accepted liability. They said liability wasn't my problem it was theirs so they just got the car fix for me. They said if for some reason liability was put on me then I'd owe the deductible to them though. Never paid a dime on any of them.

Sorry but this does not make sense as posted. That is, there perhps is a little more to it then this.

Normally your company pays you less your deductible and once they collect from the at fault party they refund your deducible. If they cannot collect then they don't refund the deductible.

What you state is that your carrier "waives" the deductible initially but if they can't collect from the other party they "charge" you your deductible. As you can see, it's really the same outcome either way. The main difference is to the insurance company... how would they ever legally collect the deductible from their insured at a later date? The policy does not allow for this as it states your carrier should have paid less the deductible. If they chose not too... the policy does not then obligate you to repay the deductible. Your carrier's only course of action would be to file a civil suit against you. But then your argument is they your company knowingly and voluntarily paid your deductible so they have no right of action against you for what they voluntarily did (and you'd be correct).

Some companies have "accident forgiveness" or "deductible waivers" for 1st accidents. Perhaps your deductible was waived for this reason. But in that case, your carrier would not have treid to collect it from you later. I'm guessing but I think that might be the only difference from your post... those carrier would not have "billed" you later for your deductible. It was simply waived for what ever reason.

The fact remains it's happen 3 times in 2 different states with 3 different companies. No 'accident forgiveness' of any kind either. I refuse to pay extra for that 'gimmick'. The coverage was full at $500k/$250k all 3 times.


hortnut
Huh?

join:2005-09-25
PNW
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to drew

Another issue to consider is the various forms of Negligence that are used in different jurisdictions. Washington operates under:

Pure Comparative Negligence

States Applicable: Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Washington State

Pure comparative negligence systems rely on a judge, jury or insurance company to determine the level of responsibility the victim had in the accident based on a percentage and then will allow compensation based on that percentage.

Example:
In Susan and John’s auto accident John was found to be 99% responsible for his injuries. The total in damages was $10,000. In a pure comparative negligence system Susan will only have to pay for 1% of John’s damages- $100.00
Recently had a relative get caught up in this in Washington State. The other party made a left turn in front of them in an urban area and between intersections. The other Insurance deemed the relative shared 25% of the fault of the accident and only paid 75% of their vehicle damages. No injury and the relative did not have collision on their vehicle. Do not recall the particulars of the 25%. But speed, inattention and a bunch of others can be used to offset liability.

Good luck. Do not want you to be blindsided by the other Company if they bring it up. Best to research it out ahead of time, so have a rebuttal prepared ahead of time in any negotiations.


drew
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Port Orchard, WA
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Thanks for the additional information hortnut See Profile. I appreciate it.



nightdesigns
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AZ
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reply to drew

Just deal with your insurance company, that's why you have them. Other company will just want to "settle", your company will make sure they get the money owed.

I was in an accident several months ago. I dealt with my insurance company, the other guy with his and it was resolved without issue. Both cars were a total, but at least on my end, the process was very easy. I was paid replacement value + tax - deductible and I thought it was a fair offer which I accepted (Was within about $250 of what I thought it should be).

The accident was my fault (which I admitted) so I had to pay the deductible. If I wasn't at fault, there wouldn't have been a deductible. This was with Metlife (Snoopy was on my side).
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drew
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join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6
reply to drew

Going to wrap this up, using some posts I made on facebook to clarify the timeline:

said by me, on january 9 :

Car Accident Update: Just got a call from an inspector from Hartford who looked at my car.

They are considering it a total loss due to the following:
1) Extensive body damage (hood, bumper, quarter panels & lights)
2) Radiator damage
3) Frame damage on the front frame rails right where the suspension mounts are (on both sides of the car)

The estimate is at least $10k worth of work. I should hear back from Hartford in 2-3 business days as to what they value the vehicle at, etc.

Next up is hearing from State Farm's inspectors with their opinion on the damage. I can't imagine it'll be too much different.

I do get to play these guys against one another, though, due to the fact I started a claim with both carriers. This can hopefully turn out to our advantage.

said by me, on january 11 :

Car Accident Update: Heard from State Farm yesterday. Total payout (car value + tax + remaining registration - $250 deductible) is $12,054.40. Asked to wait to make a decision until later today so I could have time to hear from Hartford.

Called Hartford after getting a call from State Farm who was asking if I was pursuing the claim with State Farm or Hartford. The gal at Hartford is waiting to hear from the WA DOL for the exact "remaining registration" value. I asked for a preliminary payout amount and she said "$13k and some change."

For the record, the car was purchased 3.5 years ago for $13.1k (incl. tax, title, registration). I rolled it over to 32k miles on the test drive. The car has 69k on it right now. 37k miles and 3.5 years later... we may be getting paid more for the car than we paid for it from a car dealer. That doesn't include the interest we paid on the loan - however it was minimal due to our accelerated payoff plan.

THIS IS INSANE!

said by me, on january 15 :

Car Accident Update: Hartford called back with a final total loss figure: $13,428.12. That doesn't include the $280 (14x$20) that will be electronically deposited as a rental reimbursement that we didn't need that the Hartford offered to pay without being prompted.

I feel like maybe we should send a gift certificate to a local restaurant to the guy who caused the accident.

I deposited that check yesterday (30-january).

Not sure how it ended up working out so well, but it did!

Thanks for the information and advice everyone.
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