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<title>Topic &#x27;Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions&#x27; in forum &#x27;General Questions&#x27; - dslreports.com</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878663</link>
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<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 04:45:12 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 04:45:12 EDT</lastBuildDate>

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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27967784</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : Going to wrap this up, using some posts I made on facebook to clarify the timeline:<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by me, on january 9 :</said><p>Car Accident Update: Just got a call from an inspector from Hartford who looked at my car.<br><br>They are considering it a total loss due to the following:<br>1) Extensive body damage (hood, bumper, quarter panels & lights)<br>2) Radiator damage<br>3) Frame damage on the front frame rails right where the suspension mounts are (on both sides of the car)<br><br>The estimate is at least $10k worth of work. I should hear back from Hartford in 2-3 business days as to what they value the vehicle at, etc.<br><br>Next up is hearing from State Farm's inspectors with their opinion on the damage. I can't imagine it'll be too much different.<br><br>I do get to play these guys against one another, though, due to the fact I started a claim with both carriers. This can hopefully turn out to our advantage.</p></div><div class="bquote"><said>said by me, on january 11 :</said><p>Car Accident Update: Heard from State Farm yesterday. Total payout (car value + tax + remaining registration - $250 deductible) is $12,054.40. Asked to wait to make a decision until later today so I could have time to hear from Hartford.<br><br>Called Hartford after getting a call from State Farm who was asking if I was pursuing the claim with State Farm or Hartford. The gal at Hartford is waiting to hear from the WA DOL for the exact "remaining registration" value. I asked for a preliminary payout amount and she said "$13k and some change."<br><br>For the record, the car was purchased 3.5 years ago for $13.1k (incl. tax, title, registration). I rolled it over to 32k miles on the test drive. The car has 69k on it right now. 37k miles and 3.5 years later... we may be getting paid more for the car than we paid for it from a car dealer. That doesn't include the interest we paid on the loan - however it was minimal due to our accelerated payoff plan.<br><br>THIS IS INSANE!</p></div><div class="bquote"><said>said by me, on january 15 :</said><p>Car Accident Update: Hartford called back with a final total loss figure: $13,428.12. That doesn't include the $280 (14x$20) that will be electronically deposited as a rental reimbursement that we didn't need that the Hartford offered to pay without being prompted.<br><br>I feel like maybe we should send a gift certificate to a local restaurant to the guy who caused the accident.</p></div>I deposited that check yesterday (30-january).<br><br>Not sure how it ended up working out so well, but it did!<br><br>Thanks for the information and advice everyone.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 00:25:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27883307</link>
<description><![CDATA[nightdesigns posted : Just deal with your insurance company, that's why you have them.  Other company will just want to "settle", your company will make sure they get the money owed.<br><br>I was in an accident several months ago.  I dealt with my insurance company, the other guy with his and it was resolved without issue.  Both cars were a total, but at least on my end, the process was very easy.  I was paid replacement value + tax - deductible and I thought it was a fair offer which I accepted (Was within about $250 of what I thought it should be).  <br><br>The accident was my fault (which I admitted) so I had to pay the deductible.  If I wasn't at fault, there wouldn't have been a deductible.  This was with Metlife (Snoopy was on my side).<br><small>--<br>This Space for Rent...</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 13:34:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27882304</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : Thanks for the additional information  hortnut <A HREF="/useremail/u/1267764"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>. I appreciate it.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 00:53:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27882237</link>
<description><![CDATA[hortnut posted : Another issue to consider is the various forms of Negligence that are used in different jurisdictions.  Washington operates under:<br><br><blockquote>Pure Comparative Negligence<br><br>States Applicable: Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Washington State<br><br>Pure comparative negligence systems rely on a judge, jury or insurance company to determine the level of responsibility the victim had in the accident based on a percentage and then will allow compensation based on that percentage.  <br><br>Example:<br>In Susan and John&#146;s auto accident John was found to be 99% responsible for his injuries. The total in damages was $10,000. In a pure comparative negligence system Susan will only have to pay for 1% of John&#146;s damages- $100.00</blockquote><br><br>Recently had a relative get caught up in this in Washington State.  The other party made a left turn in front of them in an urban area and between intersections.  The other Insurance deemed the relative shared 25% of the fault of the accident and only paid 75% of their vehicle damages.  No injury and the relative did not have collision on their vehicle. Do not recall the particulars of the 25%.  But speed, inattention and a bunch of others can be used to offset liability.<br><br>Good luck.  Do not want you to be blindsided by the other Company if they bring it up.  Best to research it out ahead of time, so have a rebuttal prepared ahead of time in any negotiations.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 00:06:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881467</link>
<description><![CDATA[Critsmcgee posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/809009" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=809009');">tcope</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1815538" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1815538');">Critsmcgee</a>:</said><p>So far it's 3/3 for me with Esurance, Progressive, and Vermont Mutual all waiving the deductible BEFORE the other party accepted liability. They said liability wasn't my problem it was theirs so they just got the car fix for me. They said if for some reason liability was put on me then I'd owe the deductible to them though. Never paid a dime on any of them.</p></div>Sorry but this does not make sense as posted. That is, there perhps is a little more to it then this. <br><br>Normally your company pays you less your deductible and once they collect from the at fault party they refund your deducible. If they cannot collect then they don't refund the deductible. <br><br>What you state is that your carrier "waives" the deductible initially but if they can't collect from the other party they "charge" you your deductible. As you can see, it's really the same outcome either way. The main difference is to the insurance company... how would they ever legally collect the deductible from their insured at a later date? The policy does not allow for this as it states your carrier should have paid less the deductible. If they chose not too... the policy does not then obligate you to repay the deductible. Your carrier's only course of action would be to file a civil suit against you. But then your argument is they your company knowingly and voluntarily paid your deductible so they have no right of action against you for what they voluntarily did (and you'd be correct). <br><br>Some companies have "accident forgiveness" or "deductible waivers" for 1st accidents. Perhaps your deductible was waived for this reason. But in that case, your carrier would not have treid to collect it from you later. I'm guessing but I think that might be the only difference from your post... those carrier would not have "billed" you later for your deductible. It was simply waived for what ever reason. <br> </p></div>The fact remains it's happen 3 times in 2 different states with 3 different companies. No 'accident forgiveness' of any kind either. I refuse to pay extra for that 'gimmick'. The coverage was full at $500k/$250k all 3 times.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:17:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881464</link>
<description><![CDATA[swintec posted : Personally I would let my insurance company deal with the issue and the other company.  It is part of what i pay them to do twice a year (assuming the customer has full coverage).  i dont want to worry if I am doing or saying something wrong that will muck up the process.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://blocknews.net">Usenet Block Accounts</a> | <A HREF="http://usenetnow.net">Unlimited Accounts</a></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:17:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881312</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : I bought it 3.5 years ago with 32k on it for $13.1k and everyone told me I got robbed.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r22525744-Rave-2006-Toyota-Corolla">[Rave] 2006 Toyota Corolla</A><br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 18:29:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881287</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : The payout should be $11375 + tax - deductible.  Assuming the web site provides real values.<br><br>Dealers in New Jersey use Galves, not NADA.  I don't know what the insurance companies use.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 18:20:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881191</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : Quite the difference in price between the four values. I sincerely doubt they'd pay out $11k for the vehicle.<br><br>If they valued it at $7.1k, I could see them totaling it out. Not at $8.5k+ though.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27881191?c=2064523&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzg3ODY2My54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="26849 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=317 SRC="/r0/download/2064523.thumb600~5a083080abe6d1b26700d82c04719582/nada.png/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:52:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881164</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : NADA.com (Consumer).]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:42:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881148</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : How can I see what the NADA values are?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:35:58 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881121</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>But the insurance company will give him retail value, not auction value.</p></div>Depends on the carrier... as to what value the consider. <br><br>I don't think it's a total and I don't think either carrier has said it was yet. But if t is, then I'd recommend getting values from both carriers to see who will pay more. You might be surprised. I've worked for carries that average all 4 NADA values to determine value. I've worked for carriers that take the highest retail NADA value and pays this. This can mean a 20% difference in value.<br><br>A carrier would rather have you pick one carrier to go through but there is nothing to stop you for "thinking" about filing with each carrier, getting them to give a value, and then picking only one to file with. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:25:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27881110</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1815538" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1815538');">Critsmcgee</a>:</said><p>So far it's 3/3 for me with Esurance, Progressive, and Vermont Mutual all waiving the deductible BEFORE the other party accepted liability. They said liability wasn't my problem it was theirs so they just got the car fix for me. They said if for some reason liability was put on me then I'd owe the deductible to them though. Never paid a dime on any of them.</p></div>Sorry but this does not make sense as posted. That is, there perhps is a little more to it then this. <br><br>Normally your company pays you less your deductible and once they collect from the at fault party they refund your deducible. If they cannot collect then they don't refund the deductible. <br><br>What you state is that your carrier "waives" the deductible initially but if they can't collect from the other party they "charge" you your deductible. As you can see, it's really the same outcome either way. The main difference is to the insurance company... how would they ever legally collect the deductible from their insured at a later date? The policy does not allow for this as it states your carrier should have paid less the deductible. If they chose not too... the policy does not then obligate you to repay the deductible. Your carrier's only course of action would be to file a civil suit against you. But then your argument is they your company knowingly and voluntarily paid your deductible so they have no right of action against you for what they voluntarily did (and you'd be correct). <br><br>Some companies have "accident forgiveness" or "deductible waivers" for 1st accidents. Perhaps your deductible was waived for this reason. But in that case, your carrier would not have treid to collect it from you later. I'm guessing but I think that might be the only difference from your post... those carrier would not have "billed" you later for your deductible. It was simply waived for what ever reason. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:20:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880963</link>
<description><![CDATA[Critsmcgee posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/809009" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=809009');">tcope</a>:</said><p>However, if you file with your own carrier they pay less the deductible. Some carriers (not many) will waive the deductible but this is only if the other carrier accepts 100% liability (if they accept 100% liability then it would not be difficult to "deal" with the other carrier anyway).</p></div>So far it's 3/3 for me with Esurance, Progressive, and Vermont Mutual all waiving the deductible BEFORE the other party accepted liability. They said liability wasn't my problem it was theirs so they just got the car fix for me. They said if for some reason liability was put on me then I'd owe the deductible to them though. Never paid a dime on any of them.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 16:32:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880787</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : Work with your insurance company to give you something for the new tires.  You'll need a receipt showing the mileage when they were put on.  I had the same thing happen and the ins co gave me something like $100 for the tires.  Not a lot, but it's better than nothing.<br><br>The above is assuming they total the car.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 15:44:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880242</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>If it's totalled, the insurance company will give you what it would cost to buy another 2006 with 69378 miles, plus tax, minus your deductible.  If you just had a major expense like putting new tires on it, try to get the insurance company to give you a few extra bucks.<br> </p></div>I put new tires on it less than 30 days ago. And had filled it with a full tank of gas about 10 minutes before the accident. Yay..............<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:15:59 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880211</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : But the insurance company will give him retail value, not auction value.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:07:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880155</link>
<description><![CDATA[hitachi369 posted : Without knowing the VIN or specifics I show <br><br><pre class="brush: text">Auction Values  &#012;Date Range: 12/31/2012 - 1/6/2013  &#012; &#012;--------------------------------------------------------------------------------&#012;                   Low        Average   High&#012;                   Auction    Auction   Auction  &#012;Adjusted Value*:   $5,946     $7,771    $9,621 &#012; &#012; &#012;</pre><!--end code block--><br>That is where the edmonds quote is coming from.<br><br><small>--<br><b>STOP THE NSA WIRETAPS</b><br><br><br>They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security<br>~Benjamin Franklin</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:50:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880121</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/587125" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=587125');">drslash</a>:</said><p>Again, loss data exchange by insurance companies means that all participating insurance companies know about all of your claims for the past 7 years and maybe longer.<br> </p></div>To an extent, yes. Most larger companies have an automated system to report all claims. But there are _many_ companies that don't automatically report property damage claims. I know Allstate, State Farm, USAA, Progressive report all claims. Farmers and Travellers might. But there are plenty that don't. But for the most part you should count on your carrier knowing anyway, yes.<br><br>(Carfax polls the same resources. This is why not all Carfax reports are correct).]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:42:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880120</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : If it's totalled, the insurance company will give you what it would cost to buy another 2006 with 69378 miles, plus tax, minus your deductible.  If you just had a major expense like putting new tires on it, try to get the insurance company to give you a few extra bucks.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:42:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880106</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : Thanks for the clarification.<br><br>My insurance company does not raise rates after a claim or a ticket.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:39:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880095</link>
<description><![CDATA[drslash posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/809009" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=809009');">tcope</a>:</said><p>Some people may not want to even report a non-fault accident to their carrier (I don't recommend not reporting it) as sometime reporting several of these within a short amount of time can increase rates.<br> </p></div>Again, loss data exchange by insurance companies means that all participating insurance companies know about all of your claims for the past 7 years and maybe longer.<br><small>--<br>Save water...drink beer!<br>--<br>#occupytheworkplace<br>--<br>Obama...it's junior high school all over again!<br>--<br>Democrats don't mind raising taxes because democrats don't pay taxes.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:36:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880091</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/656685" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=656685');">drew</a>:</said><p>This is what the guy at the tow yard said this morning. He claimed it was probably 20-25 hours of work plus new bumper, new quarter panels new good and new headlights. <br><br>It's a 2006 with lots of options and only 69378 miles on it. Blue book said a little under 10k private party. Edmunds said like 7k. No idea what to believe. 7-10k seems legit looking at eBay and Craigslist. </p></div> Personally, I go by what the tow person says... they just always seem to be right on. Odd, I know. $1250 in labor and I'm guessing $2000 in parts. Add in some and perhaps you are around $4000 in repairs at the most?<br><br>Don't look at Edmunds... this is what only dealers use to screw over buyers (heck, their website even states the prices they list are "starting" prices in the negotiation to buy/sell). I'd guess that the value of the vehicle is closer to the $10k amount. A vehicle is a total loss when it's around 80% of it's value.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:36:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880071</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>But why would I want to do extra work, when I'm already paying premiums to a company that will do the work for me?<br><br>But maybe you can clarify this:  If I did NOT have collision and someone ran into me, I WOULD have to deal directly with the other company, right?  And what would happen if THEY didn't have collision?</p></div>You may not want to deal with the other carrier. That is a valid point. However, if you file with your own carrier they pay less the deductible. Some carriers (not many) will waive the deductible but this is only if the other carrier accepts 100% liability (if they accept 100% liability then it would not be difficult to "deal" with the other carrier anyway). You may not have rental coverage under your own policy. The other carrier would automatically need to pay Loss of Use (rental). Some people may not want to even report a non-fault accident to their carrier (I don't recommend not reporting it) as sometime reporting several of these within a short amount of time can increase rates.<br><br>If you did not have collision and needed to file a claim with the other party their liability coverage would address your loss... not their collision coverage. Almost every state requires policies to have liability coverage. But I'd also still recommend that people really consider carrying their own collision coverage even if they think it's more likely someone else will cause the accident. Just to many people driving around without insurance.<br><br>Edit: Keep in mind, most of the time the other carrier is no more difficult to deal with then your own company. If liability is clear the claim is really handled the same way if the person is an insured or not. An injury claim is different as the amount payable is much more subjective. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:32:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880037</link>
<description><![CDATA[drslash posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1685886" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1685886');">silentlooker</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/809009" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=809009');">tcope</a>:</said><p>Correct... you "can" make a claim under your own collision coverage and have your carrier seek recovery. This does not mean that you are required to.  </p></div>But why would I want to do extra work, when I'm already paying premiums to a company that will do the work for me?<br><br>But maybe you can clarify this:  If I did NOT have collision and someone ran into me, I WOULD have to deal directly with the other company, right?  And what would happen if THEY didn't have collision?<br> </p></div> Liability covers the other side. I personally always deal with the other insurance as I don't want anything to be on my insurance history. <br> </p></div>Your insurance company will know about the claim. Most, if not all, insurance companies share loss data. <br><small>--<br>Save water...drink beer!<br>--<br>#occupytheworkplace<br>--<br>Obama...it's junior high school all over again!<br>--<br>Democrats don't mind raising taxes because democrats don't pay taxes.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:26:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27880000</link>
<description><![CDATA[silentlooker posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/809009" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=809009');">tcope</a>:</said><p>Correct... you "can" make a claim under your own collision coverage and have your carrier seek recovery. This does not mean that you are required to.  </p></div>But why would I want to do extra work, when I'm already paying premiums to a company that will do the work for me?<br><br>But maybe you can clarify this:  If I did NOT have collision and someone ran into me, I WOULD have to deal directly with the other company, right?  And what would happen if THEY didn't have collision?<br> </p></div> Liability covers the other side. I personally always deal with the other insurance as I don't want anything to be on my insurance history. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:17:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879993</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : This is what the guy at the tow yard said this morning. He claimed it was probably 20-25 hours of work plus new bumper, new quarter panels new good and new headlights. <br><br>It's a 2006 with lots of options and only 69378 miles on it. Blue book said a little under 10k private party. Edmunds said like 7k. No idea what to believe. 7-10k seems legit looking at eBay and Craigslist. <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:15:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879991</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/809009" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=809009');">tcope</a>:</said><p>Correct... you "can" make a claim under your own collision coverage and have your carrier seek recovery. This does not mean that you are required to.  </p></div>But why would I want to do extra work, when I'm already paying premiums to a company that will do the work for me?<br><br>But maybe you can clarify this:  If I did NOT have collision and someone ran into me, I WOULD have to deal directly with the other company, right?  And what would happen if THEY didn't have collision?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:14:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879902</link>
<description><![CDATA[DanHo posted : Sounds to me like your agent was being extremely lazy. Poor service on his part.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 11:53:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879715</link>
<description><![CDATA[Voxxjin posted : I guess what I was getting at was what Nyan Cat said. File the claim on your insurance. From there your insurance would then deal with the other company to be re-imbursed. <br><small>--<br>Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 11:04:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879641</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : BTW - I really don't see your car being a total loss. I have no idea of the year but it does not look too old. The bumper and fenders and no big deal. If the damage went up into the transaxle or the radiator support then I could see it being a total loss.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:41:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879627</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : Correct... you "can" make a claim under your own collision coverage and have your carrier seek recovery. This does not mean that you are required to. As the quote goes on to mention... it may take less time doing it this way. Less time... then filing with the other person's carrier directly (being the other option). It's a liability claim to the other carrier so they need to investigate in order to determine liability. This may take an hour, it may take weeks. If you have collision, your carrier does not need to know what the liability is before they can pay so they can address your loss right away and investigate while/after they pay for the damage.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:38:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879558</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : I carry full coverage on both vehicles - roll over from when there were notes on them, but I elected to continue paying in the event we were involved in an accident and the other party did not have insurance. That's increasingly common up here, so I'd rather be protected.<br><br>I thought it strange that I was directed to work directly with the other insurance company by my agent. It seems like that's a service my company should be providing me. I go through them, they go collect blood from that turnip.<br><br>Fortunately, as I mentioned, I do not need a rental as we have a spare vehicle.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:17:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879360</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : My understanding is that if I have collision coverage, my insurance company will pay my claim then attempt to collect from the other insurance company.  If I don't have collision, it's up to me to collect.<br><br> <BLOCKQUOTE><SMALL>said by State of NJ Auto Insurance Buyer's Guide :</SMALL><HR>Collision coverage pays you for damage that <I>you cause</I> to your automobile. You can also make a claim under your own collision coverage for damage to your car from an auto accident <I>you did not cause</I>. This may take less time than making a property damage liability claim against the driver who caused the auto accident. Your insurer then seeks reimbursement (subrogation) from the insurer of the driver who caused the auto accident. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 09:07:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879330</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>Do you have collision coverage?  Here in NJ, you only deal with your own insurance company.  They pay your claim, then they deal directly with the other insurance company to get reimbursed (subrogation).  If they do, you get your deductible back.</p></div> That would only be true in MI (as it's a true no-fault state... even for property damage). <br><br>Having auto insurance does not really change the issue at hand. The issue is that someone else caused you a loss. That means the other person needs to address your loss and you have a right to pursue that other person directly.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>When the other insurance company called me, I refused to talk to them, as I am not their client.  There was nothing I could say that would be to my advantage.  In fact, they may have called hoping I would admit to some fault in the accident.</p></div> Sound advise as something you say could create an issue. But the other carrier is doing the right thing. They do have the responsibility to attempt to settle the loss even if they are not your carrier. If they owe the loss... they need to make some attempt to settle. Sometimes it damned if you do damned if you don't for the adjuster. I've had people yell at me for calling them and I've had people yell at me for not calling them. I understand why... it's not a big deal. It's just kind of ironic sometimes.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 08:53:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879180</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : Do you have collision coverage?  Here in NJ, you only deal with your own insurance company.  They pay your claim, then they deal directly with the other insurance company to get reimbursed (subrogation).  If they do, you get your deductible back.<br><br>When the other insurance company called me, I refused to talk to them, as I am not their client.  There was nothing I could say that would be to my advantage.  In fact, they may have called hoping I would admit to some fault in the accident.<br><br>Maybe things work differently in your state.<br><br>You should have rental car coverage, so that shouldn't be an issue.<br><br>EDIT: For rental cars, insurance companies frequently push you towards Enterprise.  I've found that Avis has nicer cars for the same or less money.  (i.e., the insurance company will pay for a certain $ per day, and you can get a nicer car from Avis for that money.)  So don't blindly run to Enterprise.  Check around exactly what model car you can get from different companies.  They also have special rates for insurance replacement cars so be sure to check those rates.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 07:02:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27879120</link>
<description><![CDATA[Critsmcgee posted : I've never heard of going through the other person's insurance. I've only heard you handle stuff through your own insurance then your insurance company goes after the other insurance company. I've been hit 3 times and had 3 different insurance companies. (Esurance, Vermont Mutual, and Progressive) They all handled it themselves and waived the deductible since it was the other drivers fault.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 05:48:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878941</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : You carrier should not file a claim on your behalf with the other carrier. They cannot (and should not) be acting as your agent in that regard. Also, they would just be getting in way. The two choices are that you file a claim with the other carrier and deal with them direct or you file a claim under your own coverage, have your own carrier address your loss and only then do they submit the charges to the other carrier for recovery.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:51:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878924</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1703528" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1703528');">Voxxjin</a>:</said><p>Interesting I always thought that in a case like this that you should contact your insurance and that it was up to the insurance company to file the claim against the other company. </p></div>That's why I called my agent first, expecting him to say "yep, that's what we're here for. let us take care of it."<br><br>As I mentioned to a friend... the agent was utterly useless.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:45:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878919</link>
<description><![CDATA[Voxxjin posted : Did you try singing the State farm jingle to see if your agent would appear?  ;)<br><br>Interesting I always thought that in a case like this that you should contact your insurance and that it was up to the insurance company to file the claim against the other company. I have only been in one accident but that driver was also insured by my insurance company (USAA). Probably helped that the guy at fault honestly admited he didn't look behind him when he backed up. <br><small>--<br>Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:43:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878904</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : Thanks for your expert opinion - I was hoping you, specifically, would chime in here.<br><br>I have already filed the claim and asked State Farm to be involved. I did this during my phone conversation this evening where she informed me of the "duty to mitigate the loss" (thanks for the proper term). She made a bigger deal about it than you are, so I was very worried.<br><br>The Hartford rep said that while they were not ready to accept liability, she was leaning towards that as the other driver had been cited. I imagine it'll all shake out... God is good to us and we actually have a spare vehicle, so I'm not having to rent a car. I did ask the State Farm lady about any kind of claim for lost wages due to having to take a half day or so off work to deal with getting my belongings tomorrow and she said I was pretty much SOL but could try and get paid out on the rental coverage since I'm not using it.<br><br>I normally have my DSLR or mirrorless camera with me EVERYWHERE but not that evening... wish I'd had my flash and everything so the pictures didn't suck.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:32:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878883</link>
<description><![CDATA[silentlooker posted : What is wrong with filing claim with the other party when other party is likely the fault party? Why would I in his situation want to pay deductible to my insurance company and then wait for them to settle and get the deductible back. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:23:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878861</link>
<description><![CDATA[tcope posted : Why do I always want to kick an agent in the nads when I hear something like this. If you were speak to someone in your agents office who "recommended" you file your claim with the other party then they really should just shut up and mind their own business. Sorry... just the way I feel. The reason I feel this is because I can't help but think that they recommend this _only_ because they don't want the claims exposure on their block of business. I could be wrong.<br><br>Anyway.... what your adjuster mentioned is your duty to mitigate your loss. This means that you have a legal responsibility not to inflate your loss or to make it a little as possible. If you did nothing and just left your vehicle at a storage yard (incurring daily storage) for weeks on end, then you'd probably not be paid for all the storage. However, leaving it there for 4 or 5 days... especially if it's a probably total loss is not that big of a deal. What else are you going to do with it during that time? If you knew it was repairable you could move it to a repair shop but you don't know in this case. It's reasonable that it's going to take a few days for anyone to inspect it. It's not unreasonable to leave it where it is at for at least one person to inspect it and let you know if it's a total or repairable so that you can know where it should be moved. While that person at your carrier was correct in effect... 4 or 5 days is quite common and not a big deal. As I mentioned before... what are you going to do in the meantime... have it moved to your home? First, most people can't store a damaged vehicle at their home. Second, that's an additional towing expense anyway. That could be equal to two days storage. So would it really save any money? Also, that vehicle would become a moving target to be inspected.<br><br>If the other carrier is not able to accept liability by Tuesday, consider filing the claim with your carrier at that time. That is how you mitigate your loss.<br><br>You've not done anything wrong and have done everything right. Your carrier is not leading you down the wrong path... perhaps just jumping the gun a little in the "excessive storage" area.<br><br>You took photos with your phone?? KUDOS my friend!!!!! Someone thinking on their feet! Best thing anyone can do after an accident and something _everyone_ SHOULD do!<br><br>My recommendation... when you tell either carrier about the accident, give your version of the accident in your favor. I'm not saying lie but you certainly don't need to give the other person the benefit of any doubt. For example, did you have any time to react and avoid the accident? Nope. Did you do everything in your power to avoid the accident? Yup.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:14:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878832</link>
<description><![CDATA[Omega posted : I was involved in a side-swipe a few months ago that was completely the other driver's fault.  I notified my insurance agency of the accident and gave them all the driver's information as well as the insurance company.  <br><br>I had to get a rental car while my car was in for repairs, and my insurance company covered it all.  (Though I could drive it away from the scene of the accident) By the time the car was finished, the other insurance company accept liability so I didn't even have to pay a deductible.<br><br>In short, I would recommend that you let your insurance company handle all payment discrepancies.  Let your insurance representative work with their company.  I had a bit of contact with the other driver's insurance, and I told them to work out payments via my insurance company.  You may not be able to fight for towing costs, but your insurance company will.  <br><small>--<br>What smells like blue?</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 23:58:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878759</link>
<description><![CDATA[silentlooker posted : The fact that police officer cited the other driver means nothing as police do not determine the fault but instead insurance company does. From your description it sounds like you have comprehensive insurance. Did you have a stop sign or only the other driver? From your basic description you had right of way and were established. Next time you talk to the other insurance company I would make sure to mention that you feel the other driver failed to yield to you being you were established, he run a stop sign(if there was one) etc. You basically need to push the other side to accept liability. Also your insurance agent should be in constant contact with them. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 23:19:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Car Accident &#x26; Insurance Claim Questions</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Car-Accident-Insurance-Claim-Questions-27878663</link>
<description><![CDATA[drew posted : I was involved in an accident on 1/2. I was on a side street leaving a shopping center when another driver did not stop at a stop sign coming from a parking lot on my left. I was traveling about 20-25mph and was unable to break quickly enough to avoid hitting him.<br><br>The police were called and the police department cited the other driver for failure to yield. I called my insurance company (State Farm) and requested a tow truck move my car as I could not drive it more than a couple dozen yards out of the way without incurring further damage. The other driver had insurance (Hartford) and we exchanged information.<br><br>In order to get the vehicle towed, a claim with State Farm was filed. The car was towed to the towing company's lot for temporary storage.<br><br>This morning, I was contacted by the other driver's insurance company. I did not answer and they left a voicemail. The lady requested some information, including pictures taken at the scene and a recorded statement. Before returning the call, I called my local State Farm agent. He indicated I had two options: 1) Continue my claim through State Farm and pay a deductible or 2) Work with the other driver's insurance to get it taken care of. He recommended option #2 as the easiest, most expedient option. He indicated that if the claims representatives from State Farm had any questions, they would contact me.<br><br>I then returned the call to Hartford and spent about twenty minutes discussing the accident and providing information about the car and my insurance. She took a recorded statement. After that, when she found out the car was located at a tow lot, she immediately put me on hold to see if a claims adjuster would be able to be out there either later today (the call was lunchtime on Thursday 1/3) or Friday. When she came back on the line, she said no one would be there until Tuesday at the earliest. She also requested I send any photos I had of the accident scene prior to the vehicles being moved. The Hartford agent was very clear that they had NOT accepted liability yet.<br><br>Later in the day, I received a call from a State Farm claims representative asking for more information about the claim. I gave her the information she requested (most of which is contained above). She asked if I had been informed of my "duty to limit loss" (or similar terminology, but a very specific phrase). When I said no, she explained that Hartford was extremely unlikely to pay for the storage of the vehicle as they had not authorized the transportation or storage. She then asked me for a verbal description of the damage to the vehicle. She indicated that the computer system said it was almost a surefire total loss. She said that I could either hope Hartford accepts liability and agrees to pay full storage costs or I could continue my claim through State Farm, have the vehicle moved to a salvage yard where an adjuster would go look at it and not incur any additional storage fees. I asked her why my agent hadn't explained any of this to me and she wasn't able to really give an answer.<br><br>At this point, I'm probably looking at Monday before I have additional information. <br><br>Does this sound normal to everyone? Did I screw up here? What can I expect to happen from here? I do have to take a couple hours of leave tomorrow morning in order to retrieve the remaining personal items from the car that I didn't take with me last night...<br><br>By the way, no one was injured and I'm not out for blood. Stuff happens...<br><br>[att=1]<br><br>[att=2]<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://flic.kr/drew_dslr">flickr</a> | <i>'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting<br>For you to shine, shine your light on me</i></small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27878663?c=2064304&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzg3ODY2My54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="79870 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=450 SRC="/r0/download/2064304.thumb600~4f55aa0ace2d53cde1e595f17049e207/IMG_0500.jpg/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A><br>Cars at the scene</TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27878663?c=2064305&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzg3ODY2My54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="114996 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=450 SRC="/r0/download/2064305.thumb600~8613bfeed173e918fb51ea6a89a61c08/IMG_0495.jpg/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A><br>My car after moving it</TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 22:32:55 EDT</pubDate>
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