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Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

Subfloor comments and recommendations?

Or does anyone have any better ideas or alternative suggestions?

I have a screened in porch that we have turned into a 4-season sunroom. For flooring, we had initially thought tile, but the delivery times were crazy long. So now we are putting in hardwood instead.

The existing floor in the sunroom is concrete and is almost 20 years old. But it's flat with no cracks that we can see. As a subfloor/underlayment system we plan on putting down platon, OSB on top of that, thermosoft heated underlayment on top of the OSB and then float a 5/8" unfinished engineered wood floor on top of that.

My main question is regarding the platon. Has anyone used it here? If so, any comments regarding ease of use, durability, installation considerations, caveats, etc. would be welcome.
--
How nice. This country is being run by a broken record repeating the same two words over and over. Cretin.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

This thread gave me ideas for a subfloor.
»forums.redflagdeals.com/subfloor···-610572/
It's about basements, but since your pad is concrete, there is not much difference.

What I am doing is DeltaMS*, then 1.5" XPS foam boards, then 5/8 plywood (you can go 1" OSB) then my final floor. The XPS is to keep the floor from being too cold. It's optional and you're going with heated floor anyway.

*Normally for subfloor, they market the DeltaFL instead of DeltaMS, however the only difference between the two is that the FL is made of new plastic while MS is made of recycled plastic because it's made for wrappin the foundation walls from the outside. Otherwise they are identical and the deltaMS is much cheaper per square foot.

DeltaMS is pretty much the same as Platon but it has more PSI strenght than platon, however I doubt it matters much since platon is already 1000PSI and you'll have the OSB/Plywood on top to spread out the weight of heavy objects.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

I saw the Delta stuff too, but don't know where to source it. Where did you buy yours?

Also, it's too late now, but I would have preferred some type of insulating foam as well. But we don't have enough floor to window clearance to add that at this point. The inspector was pretty adamant about that.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

The Delta lines are pretty easy to get at big-box stores up here... Stock item at most Lowes Depot stores.

Only concern I'd have would be the heated underlay under wood... You'd need to ensure the wood mfg (and heating pad mfg) approve the application... Long as its a go from there end, should be game on.

As for insulation - the air space and osb provide minimal - about an R3 or so - better then nothing, but not by much.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to Badonkadonk

Well I live in Canada, so the stores where I could find it aren't in the states.

DeltaFL can be special ordered at lowes, product #132387
DeltMS can be found here in IL
»www.spycor.com/DELTA_MS_foundati···dlms.htm


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to LazMan

Thanks. Yeah, I did check on the heated underlayment. Thermosoft is okay. Nuheat is not--it may "scorch the wood".

In Illinois the Delta stuff is special order. Makes it more difficult than stopping by at the nearest Menards and picking up a roll or two.

I'm going to have to check the floor-window clearance again to see where we end up. I'd like to get the additional insulation in.
--
How nice. This country is being run by a broken record repeating the same two words over and over. Cretin.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to Badonkadonk

Any comments on Dricore? By the time I buy the Platon and top it with T&G OSB, the cost is only about $40 (16%) higher for the Dricore.
--
How nice. This country is being run by a broken record repeating the same two words over and over. Cretin.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

Dricore is for the weekend warriors who don't know how to drill tapcons or work with 4x8s.
I've read about people feeling that dricore panels feel sometimes loose. Plus water/humidity from the concrete can get up the joints of the dricore tiles and rott the OSB part of the dricore. With platon, it's nice and tight, no gaps no cracks.

It's up to you for the effort vs. quality.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

said by alkizmo:

Dricore is for the weekend warriors who don't know how to drill tapcons or work with 4x8s.
I've read about people feeling that dricore panels feel sometimes loose. Plus water/humidity from the concrete can get up the joints of the dricore tiles and rott the OSB part of the dricore. With platon, it's nice and tight, no gaps no cracks.

It's up to you for the effort vs. quality.

Until you drill through it for the tapcon.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

said by ropeguru:

said by alkizmo:

Dricore is for the weekend warriors who don't know how to drill tapcons or work with 4x8s.
I've read about people feeling that dricore panels feel sometimes loose. Plus water/humidity from the concrete can get up the joints of the dricore tiles and rott the OSB part of the dricore. With platon, it's nice and tight, no gaps no cracks.

It's up to you for the effort vs. quality.

Until you drill through it for the tapcon.

Right! That's one of the things that bugs me. On the other hand, the Dricore is even further from being a true seal.

said by alkizmo:

Dricore is for the weekend warriors who don't know how to drill tapcons or work with 4x8s.
I've read about people feeling that dricore panels feel sometimes loose. Plus water/humidity from the concrete can get up the joints of the dricore tiles and rott the OSB part of the dricore. With platon, it's nice and tight, no gaps no cracks.

It's up to you for the effort vs. quality.

I'll probably go with the Platon. All of the work is being done by a contractor and he's already mentioned that he has no problem with the roll-out dimpled stuff. I agree that it's going to likely be a nicer, tighter install than Dricore.
--
How nice. This country is being run by a broken record repeating the same two words over and over. Cretin.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to ropeguru

said by ropeguru:

Until you drill through it for the tapcon.

Well that's the thing with platon, it doesn't come with instructions for using it as a subfloor.

HOWEVER, you can use the instructions for DeltaFL (it applies 100%). In fact, I RECOMMEND to read those instructions.
»www.cosella-dorken.com/bvf-ca-en···inst.pdf

So point being: You gotta apply some silicone caulking to the threads of the tapcons before you insert it, that way it will fix the seal.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

Platon subfloor instructions here:

»www.certainteed.com/resources/Pl···-04C.pdf

DeltaFL instructions are better though. Thanks for the link.
--
How nice. This country is being run by a broken record repeating the same two words over and over. Cretin.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

Yeah Platon's subfloor instruction is a joke.
Then again that's because Platon isn't really marketed towards being a subfloor while DeltaFL is its raison d'être.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to Badonkadonk

Interesting. That is certainly not manufacturer produced instructions. I talked to the manufacturer directly and they absolutely would not give and advice or help in using it as a barrier between concrete and a sub floor. They were firm on having to use the Delta FL.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

3 edits

So the Platon people were firm about using Delta? BTW, I'm pretty sure you didn't talk to the manufacturer. Or if you did, it was some clueless person.

From the manufacturer's website:

»www.armtec.com/en-ca/products-an···ing.aspx

"Platon Flooring Protector isolates flooring from cold, damp concrete. When used beneath a wooden sub-floor and over concrete in a basement, it makes floors comfortable, odour free, healthy and dry."

Flooring installation instructions (which are worse than Certainteed's) by the manufacturer: »files.armtec.com/Downloads/Categ···11-E.pdf



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

1 recommendation

Gats... I still need more coffee.. My brain was thinking Delta FL vs. Platon and not what it should have of Delta FL vs. Delta MS which people here have said they used.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru

said by ropeguru:

Interesting. That is certainly not manufacturer produced instructions. I talked to the manufacturer directly and they absolutely would not give and advice or help in using it as a barrier between concrete and a sub floor. They were firm on having to use the Delta FL.

Cosella Dorken won't tell you how to use DeltaMS as a subfloor because they want you to buy the more expensive DeltaFL.

Their tune changed since that RedFlagForum thread I posted, where some people did call the manufacturer and were told the only difference is the recycled palstic. I guess the manufacturer realised this was a marketing mistake to admit that the MS just smells a bit of recycled plastic (People don't care).

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

I'm sure they'll come up with some "scientific" reason to push people towards FL.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Of course they will. Something like it may give off obnoxious odors which would not be an issue out doors but would be as a subfloor.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1



Delta MS VS. Delta FL
I broke down the relevant parts (excluded dimensions).

I put a red box at the superior factors of FL.
Basically, it is ever so slightly more permeable for water vapors (20 ng vs 22 ng, whatever that means) and isn't smelly or allergenic!!

Yeah.. no I'm not going to pay double for DeltaFL.
That stuff is under a layer of XPS and a layer of plywood. If I get allergic or smell something from it, then it's pretty nasty.
However the roll has been sitting in my basement for a couple of months now and really I smell nothing (I sniffed it up close too!).


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

I assume nanograms. Strikes me as being pretty insignificant.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

Yeah.. no I'm not going to pay double for DeltaFL.
That stuff is under a layer of XPS and a layer of plywood. If I get allergic or smell something from it, then it's pretty nasty.
However the roll has been sitting in my basement for a couple of months now and really I smell nothing (I sniffed it up close too!).

Maybe I am just looking inthe wrong place, but looking at the spycor web site, FL is $.59/sq foot, MS is $.53/sq foot, and platon is $.49/sq foot. For my project it would only be a $51 difference between FL and platon. Hardly double the price.

Maybe pricing is different where you are.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to Badonkadonk

I went with dricore in my basement - I was in the same boat, the price difference was essentially non existent. I'm very handy, so the platon installation wasn't a concern. The 2x2 panels are way easier to handle on your own, compared to 4x8 sheets.

End result is pretty much the same, really... If you're on your own, dricores a solid option...



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru

said by Badonkadonk:

I assume nanograms. Strikes me as being pretty insignificant.

Especially since
22ng = 0.3845 US perm
20ng = 0.3496 US perm

said by ropeguru:

Maybe I am just looking inthe wrong place, but looking at the spycor web site, FL is $.59/sq foot, MS is $.53/sq foot, and platon is $.49/sq foot. For my project it would only be a $51 difference between FL and platon. Hardly double the price.

Maybe pricing is different where you are.

Where DeltaFL and DeltaMS are available in store:

$170 - roll of MS (6.6 x 65.6' = 433 sqft) = $0.393/sqft
$70 -- Roll of RL (3.5' x 30' = 105 sqft) = $0.67/sqft

Though it depends on if you can buy in the biggest quantity roll without too much left-over.
For me, I measured exactly how my roll would go and I am very lucky because I end up with only 30 sqft left-over.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Ok.. I have not found it in store anywhere around here. So it could be it is in store in QC but not the states. Or at least in my area.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

It's not in the states. If you go to their website they tell you to special order from Lowes or by from the spycor website.

»Re: Subfloor comments and recommendations?
--
How nice. This country is being run by a broken record repeating the same two words over and over. Cretin.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

Check your PM
But here for reference
»www.menards.com/main/building-ma···5710.htm

Platon is just as good, guys.
Buy whatever is close to you, delta or platon, doesn't matter.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to alkizmo

Thanks for all the info. I just called the local Lowes and they sell the 42"x30' roll for $49.38 which is $.47/sq foot. If I ordered today, which I am not, it would be in by the 11th. So not too bad of a turn around.

I would rather have the wider roll so I didn't have so many seams. But that isn't a big stickler.