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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to eweazel

Re: Ontaro Labour Law question

said by eweazel:

No he is not signing away his rights, they are legal. He can sign to work upto 60 hours per week. We have those agreements here for our busiest season.

They cannot force you to work a statutory holiday, even if you sign a document saying you agree.

In other words, they can say whatever they want, but it's not binding.


eweazel

join:2008-12-09
Etobicoke, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Gone:

said by eweazel:

No he is not signing away his rights, they are legal. He can sign to work upto 60 hours per week. We have those agreements here for our busiest season.

They cannot force you to work a statutory holiday, even if you sign a document saying you agree.

In other words, they can say whatever they want, but it's not binding.

Yes it is, this is the basis of my job, here is a quote on

»www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/···days.php


When an Employee Who Qualifies for the Day Off Has Agreed in Writing to Work on a Public Holiday

Most employees have the right to get the public holiday off and get paid public holiday pay. However, if an employee agrees in writing to work on the public holiday, there are two options

•the employee is entitled to receive regular wages for all hours worked on the public holiday, plus a substitute day off work with public holiday pay;
or
•if the employee agrees in writing, he or she is entitled to public holiday pay for the public holiday plus premium pay for all hours worked on the public holiday. In this case, the employee will not be given a substitute day off.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

2 edits

said by eweazel:

Yes it is, this is the basis of my job, here is a quote on

You can agree, in writing, to work on a specific holiday each time that holiday comes up. As part of that document, it is agreed upon how you will be paid, either premium time or time off in lieu. This is a completely different scenario, and is perfectly valid. In contrast, you cannot broadly sign away the right to not be assigned a shift on a statutory holiday without prior consent as part of an employment contract. If an employment contains that provision, it is invalid.

If this is part of your job like you claim, you would already know that. Perhaps you work for one of the many HR departments with similar clauses in their employment agreements only to have the MOL set them straight when I decided I didn't want to work on Boxing Day?

Edit - Furthermore, I should add, that even if you agree to work a stat holiday in writing, you still have the right to change your mind no less than 48 hours prior.

said by »www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut···tm#BK116 :
Right to refuse work
73. (1) An employee may refuse to work on a public holiday or a day declared by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor to be a holiday for the purposes of the Retail Business Holidays Act. 2000, c. 41, s. 73 (1).

Same
(2) An employee may refuse to work on a Sunday. 2000, c. 41, s. 73 (2).

Notice of refusal
(3) An employee who agrees to work on a day referred to in subsection (1) or (2) may then decline to work on that day, but only if he or she gives the employer notice that he or she declines at least 48 hours before he or she was to commence work on that day. 2000, c. 41, s. 73 (3).
In other words, your entire argument is moot. Those clauses aren't binding because you can change your mind up to 48 hours prior. This is why most employers will bring you those agreement sheets two days before the holiday.


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

Looking at it, the language is vague. It does not say for each public holiday, so I can see why they may interpret it as covering all.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by donoreo:

Looking at it, the language is vague. It does not say for each public holiday, so I can see why they may interpret it as covering all.

The law is clear, they can't force him into it even if it is in his contract.

They can force you into overtime so long as they meet all other regulations related to consecutive days worked and time off between shifts, but since this costs employers more money they tend to use that sparingly.


eweazel

join:2008-12-09
Etobicoke, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by eweazel:

Yes it is, this is the basis of my job, here is a quote on

You can agree, in writing, to work on a specific holiday each time that holiday comes up. As part of that document, it is agreed upon how you will be paid, either premium time or time off in lieu. This is a completely different scenario, and is perfectly valid. In contrast, you cannot broadly sign away the right to not be assigned a shift on a statutory holiday without prior consent as part of an employment contract. If an employment contains that provision, it is invalid.

If this is part of your job like you claim, you would already know that. Perhaps you work for one of the many HR departments with similar clauses in their employment agreements only to have the MOL set them straight when I decided I didn't want to work on Boxing Day?

Why get personal with me, you dont like what is being said, thats your right, but in reality jobs like these try to scare these people into signing. Not saying its right, but thats how they like to play the game. You do have a right to refuse to work on holidays, but it wont stop them from trying to schedule him in. Especially in days like boxing days, and if they are in the "Tourist zone" As long as they pay him or give him time off if he does work, it is legit.

Thats what I am trying to say, he is not signing away his ESA rights, but he is agreeing to terms, that no way would I agree nor sign up for. They can get creative is letting him go if he does sign it and wont play ball, and thats why most companies try to get this in writing.



eweazel

join:2008-12-09
Etobicoke, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

3 edits
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by donoreo:

Looking at it, the language is vague. It does not say for each public holiday, so I can see why they may interpret it as covering all.

The law is clear, they can't force him into it even if it is in his contract.

They can force you into overtime so long as they meet all other regulations related to consecutive days worked and time off between shifts, but since this costs employers more money they tend to use that sparingly.

We dont work on holidays here, but during our busy season "Halloween" people tend to work more hours.

MOL decided to investigate us last year, but because we are closed on holidays and pay the employees and treat them well bonuses for every 8 hours they work during the busy season etc. we passed. But the investigator did say for us to cover our asses from any more coplaints we should get everyone to sign a letter as the company mentioned above has done and that it would cover us. It was an option, and this could be one investigators way of viewing things.

So seeing how that is the case, I can see a company scheduling you for a holiday and its up to the employee to say no within the 48 hours as Gone has mentioned.

Some companies will try to push the limits as much as possobile. Its up to the employee to fight it, sadly thats who it works in this country and with free enterprise, Its very very wrong treating employees like that, but they still try and most get away with it.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to eweazel

said by eweazel:

Why get personal with me, you dont like what is being said, thats your right, but in reality jobs like these try to scare these people into signing. Not saying its right, but thats how they like to play the game. You do have a right to refuse to work on holidays, but it wont stop them from trying to schedule him in. Especially in days like boxing days, and if they are in the "Tourist zone" As long as they pay him or give him time off if he does work, it is legit.

The whole point I was making is that it isn't binding. Sure, they can schedule him in and they can cry to him about what he signed, but so long as he gives them the appropriate notice they can't force him to work that shift. You said it was binding, but really it's not.

The right to refuse to work a stat holiday is enshrined in the ESA. Even if you sign a document saying you agree to work those holidays, you still have every right to say no with appropriate notice. In effect, you can't "sign away" that right to not work on a stat holiday.

This isn't personal. This is just the law.


eweazel

join:2008-12-09
Etobicoke, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Gone:

said by eweazel:

Why get personal with me, you dont like what is being said, thats your right, but in reality jobs like these try to scare these people into signing. Not saying its right, but thats how they like to play the game. You do have a right to refuse to work on holidays, but it wont stop them from trying to schedule him in. Especially in days like boxing days, and if they are in the "Tourist zone" As long as they pay him or give him time off if he does work, it is legit.

The whole point I was making is that it isn't binding. Sure, they can schedule him in and they can cry to him about what he signed, but so long as he gives them the appropriate notice they can't force him to work that shift. You said it was binding, but really it's not.

The right to refuse to work a stat holiday is enshrined in the ESA. Even if you sign a document saying you agree to work those holidays, you still have every right to say no with appropriate notice. In effect, you can't "sign away" that right to not work on a stat holiday.

This isn't personal. This is just the law.

That is right, and you are bang on, on that argument. But it becomes a very grey area if signed. We can all agree that he should not sign the document anyway.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Well, signing it is irrelevant. So long as he tells his employer he refuses to work a stat holiday 48 hours prior, it's fair game. Email is good for this kind of stuff. If he has proof he told them 48 hours prior the employer has no recourse even if they schedule him. To quote what the MOL told me, "just don't show up, and call us after if it's an issue."

If it were me, I probably would have crossed it out and initialled it, but it really makes no difference in practice.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

Regs or no regs, any company that abuses it's workers, will find a way to get rid of people. Before I jumped ship at the Shack, they had reduced my hours to under 24, it was a sure sign they were after me. Top salesperson in the country, but I wouldnt play their little games at one point they tried to make battery add on sales a condition of your employment. ( must sell a certain percentage of sales in batteries).
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......