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TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2
Reviews:
·HughesNet Satell..
·WesTex Connect
reply to alkizmo

Re: My addition will take almost 2 miles of Cat 6

said by alkizmo:

Actually no, they'll be on WiFi even with your picture proving wired > wireless. It's not like the washing machine will need to download/upload a 1080p copy of Avatar.

But that could be a major interference problem if one is in a apartment/condo complex and everyone in it has one.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified

psiu

join:2004-01-20
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to pandora
Doing this stuff on a commercial/industrial scale makes 10K feet look pretty low-end

You can easily hit 100K...a full facility like a hospital will be in the 1M range no problem. Which is good--it's work

I only have 2 Cat5e/2 RG-6 to our 2 bedrooms, 2 Cat5e/3 RG-6 to living room, and more in the basement. And yeah, those are nowhere near sufficient. Of course, it's a rental townhouse...whoever moves in after we leave this spring should be pleasantly surprised.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to TheTechGuru
said by TheTechGuru:

But that could be a major interference problem if one is in a apartment/condo complex and everyone in it has one.

Wifi technology will adapt.
But you'll never see a fridge with RJ45.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to fifty nine
I have a DIR-655 router (which isn't even dual band), and I've streamed HD video alongside computer use with no problems. Then again, I don't have 17 Xboxes, 36 computers and 6 printers running simultaneously alongside the HD video.

For me, the convenience wins. Maybe I just don't have high demands of my equipment... but to each their own.


mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:13
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

Wifi technology will adapt.

It'll be too little too late. Around here, channels 8+ are completely unusable due to noise/interference, and there are well over a dozen access points within range on channels 1-7. Everyone's constantly having their devices kicked off for one reason or another. It's generally not too bad, but can be really annoying if you're in the middle of a game or streaming a movie or something. 5GHz "N" has been out for years now but the devices which support it are few and far between. 802.11ac is gonna do jack shit due to the sheer number of channels they're talking about bonding (it'll be just as congested as 2.4GHz is now).

said by alkizmo:

But you'll never see a fridge with RJ45.

Where technology is concerned, never say never. Or are you trying to say they'll skip the puny copper and go right to fiber?

/M

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

But you'll never see a fridge with RJ45.

»asia.cnet.com/lg-gr-d267dtu-inte···9200.htm

Your information is apparently already a decade out of date. While I do agree it's more likely wireless (802.11 or otherwise) will be more mainstream with kitchen appliances, never say never until doing a quick search.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by AVonGauss:

»asia.cnet.com/lg-gr-d267dtu-inte···9200.htm

Your information is apparently already a decade out of date. While I do agree it's more likely wireless (802.11 or otherwise) will be more mainstream with kitchen appliances, never say never until doing a quick search.

OH effing PLEASE
That's an exception.
AND it's from 2002, when RJ45 for networking made more sense

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel

2 recommendations

reply to pandora
Considering the low cost of small, unmanaged gigabit switches these days, I would never run so many cables to the same room. A couple of jacks is enough, then a network switch if any more are needed.

Hint: you can get a 5-port gigE switch for $20. Probably cheaper than the cost of those 26 redundant runs of CAT6!


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

reply to Speedy Petey
said by Speedy Petey:

said by pandora:

You are amazingly close. There are 4 outlets in each bedroom, each outlet has 7 Cat 6 and 3 Coax run to it. The average run is about 50-70' (more toward the center of the house).

Each room will have 28 Cat 6 and 12 RG 6 coax in 4 locations.

HAHAHAHAHA

In a BEDROOM??
WHAT IN THE WORLD is your justification for this???

+1

I have better things to do in the bedroom that doesn't require 28 cat 6 and 12 RG-6 coax in four locations. One location is sufficient.

comp
Premium
join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA
Reviews:
·Armstrong Zoom ..
·DIRECTV
reply to TheMG
said by TheMG:

Considering the low cost of small, unmanaged gigabit switches these days, I would never run so many cables to the same room. A couple of jacks is enough, then a network switch if any more are needed.

Hint: you can get a 5-port gigE switch for $20. Probably cheaper than the cost of those 26 redundant runs of CAT6!

You are 100% right there. I am currently using MOCA in almost every room and have a 4 port switch there. With all of the HD Video streaming and whatever else, There has never been a speed issue... And the cost was less then 50 bucks per room


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Speedy Petey
said by Speedy Petey:

said by pandora:

You are amazingly close. There are 4 outlets in each bedroom, each outlet has 7 Cat 6 and 3 Coax run to it. The average run is about 50-70' (more toward the center of the house).

Each room will have 28 Cat 6 and 12 RG 6 coax in 4 locations.

HAHAHAHAHA

In a BEDROOM??
WHAT IN THE WORLD is your justification for this???

HTPC, internet-connected TV, video game console, some type of net enabled STB/ruku/etc, networked AV receiver. For satellite two runs for satellite and a 3rd for OTA. And all those things are needed more or less at the same spot with a typical setup.

Yes a switch can enable all the networking on one outlet. And I believe that all the satellite TV can be run on a single coax now (but I may be wrong). So I could see a possible use for 6+3 outlets. Now I think that many on every wall is excessive. Especially in a bedroom. Maybe on opposite walls would be a little easier to swallow. But it's not my money...

If I was building a house, a drop on each wall would be nice of 2 coax and two network. Or at a minimum, a smurftube where a run could be ran down the road after the walls sealed up. For a living room or very large room that is likely to be rearranged, or for one that has multiple doorways, a fireplace, or other design where cables can not easily be routed just along the floorboards, then multiple larger drops would be nice.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

OH effing PLEASE
That's an exception.
AND it's from 2002, when RJ45 for networking made more sense

That was the oldest reference I saw from a 5 second search. Never has already happened, and in the use case of providing video it even makes a tad bit of sense.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to pike
said by pike:

"Not believing in using wifi" is a preference with no empirical data backing it up. Also you're missing out on one of the biggest selling points of the Apple TV: AirPlay.

I think there is data to back it up. Multiple streams of HD are problematic for a wireless network. I have an InfiniTV in my computer with a couple of Xboxes as extenders and recently have added a couple of Ceton Echos. The Xboxes don't really like wireless and the new Echos are hardline only. Why mess with multiple wireless devices for something like TV when the wired solution is problem free?

Regardless of what they call it, you can't watch live TV on Apple TV.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to AVonGauss
said by AVonGauss:

said by alkizmo:

OH effing PLEASE
That's an exception.
AND it's from 2002, when RJ45 for networking made more sense

That was the oldest reference I saw from a 5 second search. Never has already happened, and in the use case of providing video it even makes a tad bit of sense.

Actually this seems more like the oldest reference
»news.cnet.com/Net-fridge-comes-i···207.html
1999, you can imagine it was RJ45.

But the point being is: We won't see it go that way. These fridges were mad-science internet boom attempts at marketing junk. The reality of things is that we won't see technology evolve where appliances can connect to the web and need RJ45. RJ45 isn't a functional connectivity method for the typical home, WIFI is.

Broadband is another topic all together.


Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to pandora
said by pandora:

Each of my kids has 1 Xbox 360, 1 PS3 (bc with PS2), 1 wii, 1 PC, and 1 smart TV, 1 wired VOIP device, 1 network connected DVR, in addition to 1 laptop (often used wirelessly), 1 tablet (also wireless). Some kids have a small network printer / scanner.

I can't be certain where the kids will want their stuff to plug in. Only active ethernet cables need to be connected to a switch. It is possible the majority of cables will be unused for long periods of time.

I'm very tired of messy 8 port unmanaged switches sitting on the floor in a room. They not only are an eyesore, but they take a power slot.

Wait so each kid has that right? Ok I get it know, with that much cable you must be the Duggars
--
Professional student pilot!

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
I find it interesting that people don't understand the reason for multiple connections in a room (not that the OP hasn't gone to an extreme). I have rent houses which have two or three Cat5 in some bedrooms. Not all rooms have only one way to arrange the furniture. Much easier to put in a few extra so you can put the bed where ever you want instead of "well, the bed has to be here because the TV can only be over there". The time to do it is when the walls are open. The price of copper is the cheap part of the process.

comp
Premium
join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA

1 recommendation

Two or three is fine.. 28 is a different story


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to mackey
said by mackey:

It'll be too little too late. Around here, channels 8+ are completely unusable due to noise/interference, and there are well over a dozen access points within range on channels 1-7. Everyone's constantly having their devices kicked off for one reason or another.

Like this?

2.4 wireless is quite congested around here in south Cali.

00:0F:66:4E:DB:43 LinRMKN4 WEP -54 / -88 2.437 6
00:1C:10:1B:F6:93 linksys NONE -65 / -88 2.437 6
00:23:69:54:D8:D4 michaud WEP -81 / -88 2.437 6
00:1E:E5:3C:AD:9D ivette WEP -83 / -88 2.437 6
00:14:60:F4:BF:5F Home NONE -83 / -87 2.452 9
C0:83:0A:31:67:F9 2WIRE427 WEP -62 / -87 2.452 9
E0:46:9A:75:EF:E5 ASSTASTIC WEP -56 / -87 2.462 11
20:AA:4B:CE:23:BB Tran-guest NONE -90 / -96 2.462 11
C0:3F:0E:9E:F8:DC LEG WEP -72 / -87 2.462 11
3C:EA:4F:64:9B:09 2WIRE738 WEP -89 / -96 2.462 11
4C:60:DE:B9:17:4C ATT8881 WPA2 -55 / -85 2.412 1
20:AA:4B:90:0A:24 Estrada WPA -88 / -96 2.412 1
00:22:6B:4B:DE:74 duc WPA -79 / -85 2.412 1
00:1D:CF:2C:1C:60 HOME-1C62 WPA2 -64 / -85 2.412 1
00:24:B2:25:61:62 JANA WPA -68 / -85 2.412 1
C0:3F:0E:99:5D:0C diabolo159 WPA -75 / -85 2.412 1
00:22:3F:9B:62:A4 frangear WPA -55 / -86 2.417 2
08:86:3B:18:AE:AA Solo Cali WPA2 -49 / -86 2.417 2
08:86:3B:32:C3:D6 belkin.3d6 WPA2 -56 / -86 2.417 2
30:46:9A:1C:63:EC Andysinbiz WPA -76 / -86 2.417 2
E0:91:F5:A8:D7:52 Enid WPA -72 / -86 2.417 2
48:28:2F:FE:FD:B0 Verizon-890L-FDB0 WPA2 -81 / -83 2.427 4
28:16:2E:FF:E0:09 2WIRE113 WPA -85 / -96 2.427 4
74:44:01:31:45:58 roberto12345 WPA2 -71 / -88 2.437 6
08:86:3B:E1:A8:43 belkin.843 WPA -57 / -88 2.437 6
20:4E:7F:B8:34:F8 GAZ97 WPA2 -66 / -88 2.437 6
1C:AF:F7:D5:22:77 memo WPA -65 / -88 2.437 6
00:25:F2:FE:41:C8 MOTOROLA-41B5A WPA -68 / -88 2.437 6
00:1C:10:3F:8C:7A linksys_SES_35931 WPA -74 / -88 2.437 6
2C:B0:5D:36:F3:16 503SLV WPA2 -67 / -88 2.437 6
00:22:A4:1F:68:D1 2WIRE862 WPA -83 / -88 2.437 6
00:26:50:2C:2E:39 2WIRE913 WPA -70 / -86 2.447 8
00:22:A4:BF:1F:79 2WIRE057 WPA -71 / -86 2.447 8
00:24:56:65:4A:49 Brian1 WPA -88 / -96 2.447 8
74:9D:DC:49:DF:99 2WIRE586 WPA -86 / -86 2.447 8
84:1B:5E:2D:84:FC NETGEAR85 WPA2 -79 / -87 2.452 9
74:44:01:49:37:7F NETGEAR63 WPA2 -70 / -87 2.452 9
00:25:9C:9D:DC:14 akelaitis WPA -71 / -87 2.452 9
00:1D:7E:41:04:16 HouseX WPA2 -81 / -87 2.452 9
3C:EA:4F:D5:B4:C1 2WIRE795 WPA -84 / -87 2.457 10
64:0F:29:09:B2:B1 2WIRE489 WPA -81 / -87 2.457 10
94:44:52:42:6B:30 INGO-HP_Network WPA2 -93 / -96 2.462 11
22:C9:D0:1A:80:F0 games's Guest Network WPA2 -89 / -96 2.462 11
00:23:69:E1:1A:63 catherine WPA2 -89 / -96 2.462 11
EC:1A:59:06:52:AA Galerians WPA -69 / -87 2.462 11
C0:3F:0E:94:37:70 loopdog WPA -77 / -87 2.462 11
34:EF:44:E1:3D:59 2WIRE713 WPA -68 / -87 2.462 11



ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..
reply to pandora
said by pandora:

I wish PoE could run lights or low power PC's. I believe for fast, reliable streaming and connectivity, wired is better than wireless, but the house will have a number of PoE wireless access points built in as well.

It can. We use PoE to energize our VDI terminals at work.


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2
reply to 54067323

--
CompTIA Network+ Certified

Speedy Petey

join:2008-01-19

2 recommendations

reply to pandora
said by pandora:

Each of my kids has 1 Xbox 360, 1 PS3 (bc with PS2), 1 wii, 1 PC, and 1 smart TV, 1 wired VOIP device, 1 network connected DVR, in addition to 1 laptop (often used wirelessly), 1 tablet (also wireless). Some kids have a small network printer / scanner.

I can't be certain where the kids will want their stuff to plug in. Only active ethernet cables need to be connected to a switch. It is possible the majority of cables will be unused for long periods of time.

I'm very tired of messy 8 port unmanaged switches sitting on the floor in a room. They not only are an eyesore, but they take a power slot.

EACH kid??? This make it all clearer.
Basically you are telling us that your kids are profoundly spoiled and that's the reason for all that cable.

pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to SwedishRider
said by SwedishRider:

I have a DIR-655 router (which isn't even dual band), and I've streamed HD video alongside computer use with no problems. Then again, I don't have 17 Xboxes, 36 computers and 6 printers running simultaneously alongside the HD video.

For me, the convenience wins. Maybe I just don't have high demands of my equipment... but to each their own.

I tried a Vizio smart HDTV via wireless where my router was about 1' away from the TV. I couldn't stream HD video from Hulu Plus or Amazon without buffering issues. Amazon was smart enough to suggest switching to standard definition.

I wish wireless worked better, but for sustained HD streams, it's tough in my experience.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to pike
said by pike:

You also have quite a bit of overlapping technology there and most people don't go for that level of redundancy. A network switch is the ideal solution in this scenario as you're not likely to be using more than 2 (or even 1) of those devices at a time in any high-bandwidth demand.

I don't like using switches. I like everything home run. That way upgrading to a newer technology like 10 gig is easy, just replace the main switch and I'm done.

There's overlap but each device has services that the other doesn't have. The Smart TV has amazon instant video, while Apple obviously doesn't. Apple TV has AirPlay mirroring, the network receiver has siriusXM streaming radio and the XBOX is used for windows media center. The nice thing about the network receiver is I can leave the TV off while listening to the streaming radio.

My blu-ray player doesn't have streaming but it has bd-live. BD also requires periodic firmware updates to play newer discs. It's easier to do this over the network.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to pandora
For new constructions I can understand multiple outlets per room, maybe one per wall.

Eventually it's overkill to put multiple outlets per wall in a bedroom. You don't like switches but I'm sure that a switch can easily fit in the same shelf as the PS3, Xbox360, Wii, TV, etc etc.

Laptops typically run on WiFi, you can plug them in, but who bothers?

For existing constructions, the effort to get one outlet per bedroom is already a lot, so there's no point to go ahead and put a ton unless you KNOW you need them at said specific location.

MatrixHDV, what program is that? Can it be run on a router? Im curious of what noise is around my house, even if it's a single detached home with brick walls.

ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..
reply to pandora
said by pandora:

I tried a Vizio smart HDTV via wireless where my router was about 1' away from the TV. I couldn't stream HD video from Hulu Plus or Amazon without buffering issues. Amazon was smart enough to suggest switching to standard definition.

I wish wireless worked better, but for sustained HD streams, it's tough in my experience.

Get a better access point.

ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

I don't like using switches. I like everything home run. That way upgrading to a newer technology like 10 gig is easy, just replace the main switch and I'm done.

Wish you the best on getting 10G on CAT6.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

MatrixHDV, what program is that? Can it be run on a router? Im curious of what noise is around my house, even if it's a single detached home with brick walls.

Not sure if the dongle is still available but it probably can be had from e-bay used or maybe another type USB dongle might work but the app can be downloaded here.

»www.ubnt.com/airview/downloads
»www.ubnt.com/airview

pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to ke4pym
said by ke4pym:

Get a better access point.

Most of the wire is run and there is no problem (for me).

My cost will be approximately $4,000 for installation and $1,000 - $1,200 for all cables and connectors once it's all up. I'm comfortable with this. Others may not be. The server cost $600, I'll probably be paying nearly 1K per 48 port switch x 1 or 2. Cameras run $100 a piece times about 9.

In each bedroom, I anticipate one nearly full box of 7 Ethernet connectors used, and the other boxes mostly unused. I will only connect active cable to a switch (aside for testing).

I have yet to get very good streaming from any access point, and when multiple devices are streaming, failure is always the result.

You may have a different situation and better experience. For me, this is a solution that works. I was just amazed to think of wires by the mile instead of by the foot or meter which is how I usually think of them.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
reply to pandora
Success at streaming also depends on what is being streamed.
Is it a 700 mb hour long show, or is it an 8 gig hour long show?

Different people have different standards.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

2 recommendations

reply to pandora
said by pandora:

I was just amazed to think of wires by the mile instead of by the foot or meter which is how I usually think of them.

That's OK, we were all amazed by 7 network cable runs per wall plate....