dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
10616
share rss forum feed

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to jeffmoss26

Re: My addition will take almost 2 miles of Cat 6

said by jeffmoss26:


do 1 also for the 12 drops of coax...lol


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to pandora

The "X ALL THE THINGS" meme is most applicable: USE ALL THE CABLES!

Or a mix:

I don't always run wiring, but when I do, I use ALL OF IT!



jig

join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
reply to pandora

28 drops per "bedroom" sounds more like a pay webcam site than a family home.

one plus for not having a network switch in each room - no need to have it on battery backup if you want the network to work during a power outage. yes, you can just have your WAPs on battery backup and be fine...

anyway. a downside of such a system is that you can end up with electrical ground biases that somehow couple into the cat6 and end up blowing your $1k switch every time a circuit breaker pops or the grid goes down. switches in each room can sometimes act as a surge protector, where a lot of consumer appliances aren't as electrically safe.

me... i'd design the rooms so that there was a natural placement for a desk and entertainment devices, and maybe run 4 separate cat 6 lines and two separate rg6 lines conforming to the natural layout. even that might be overkill for a bedroom... media room maybe would have a few extra cat 6 and HDMI lines run for a projector mounted to the ceiling.

i can't think of any safety reasons against running 28 cat6 lines to each bedroom... but i wonder if there's a fire hazard somewhere. i believe the shielding, to be code, has to be something that doesn't melt off or something. anyone know of a code section the OPs setup might run afoul of in a residence? do they need to be run in a conduit somehow?
--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.


pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..

Only active Cat 6 cable will be energized and connected to a switch. The goal is to be able to relocate furniture within the room.

I anticipate 5-10 active wired connections per room, but wished to have the ability to move furniture around as desired.

The plan is to expand the LAN with 48 port PoE capable Cisco managed LAN switches as needed. Initially two 48 port switches will be installed with room for up to 6 in the main network rack.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by pandora:

The goal is to be able to relocate furniture within the room.

with 7 outlets of cat6 and rg6..how many furniture relocation are you expecting to do in say 5-10 years?

that's also a lot of outlets to cover up with furniture so it won't be unsightly...

planning is about putting in the right amount of cables and then some but not overkilling it to the max...

ImpetusEra
Premium
join:2004-05-19
00000
reply to pandora

said by pandora:

Only active Cat 6 cable will be energized and connected to a switch. The goal is to be able to relocate furniture within the room.

I anticipate 5-10 active wired connections per room, but wished to have the ability to move furniture around as desired.

The plan is to expand the LAN with 48 port PoE capable Cisco managed LAN switches as needed. Initially two 48 port switches will be installed with room for up to 6 in the main network rack.

How big are these rooms that they need that many drops? I would think 6 RG6 and 12 CAT6 per room would be a more reasonable number. For switching maybe a modular chassis would be better suited. Cisco or HP Procurve, populate chassis as needed.

pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to medbuyer

said by medbuyer:

with 7 outlets of cat6 and rg6..how many furniture relocation are you expecting to do in say 5-10 years?

The question is more what will be the useful life of gigabit Ethernet cables in a home. If these cables become useless over time, it's easy to remove the outlet and patch the wall.

The intention is to not have Ethernet outlets define the furniture layout. I don't view Ethernet outlets are more or less unsightly than any other outlet or switch.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by pandora:

The question is more what will be the useful life of gigabit Ethernet cables in a home. If these cables become useless over time, it's easy to remove the outlet and patch the wall.

The intention is to not have Ethernet outlets define the furniture layout. I don't view Ethernet outlets are more or less unsightly than any other outlet or switch.

useful life? when my house was built back in 06 and we closed in early 07, my planned ethernet wiring worked so much in my favor such that i didnt need to add / remove or have unsightly outlets to cover with furniture or consider it in mind when moving furniture..and I expect to have the wiring good for another 5-10 years at least...

it's not about what the cable can handle bandwidth wise, it's the amount of cables that's having everybody scratching their heads for you...that's like 2 outlets on 3 walls and 1 on the 4th on a square or whatever shape room...really insane...

EDIT: the op did say there were only 4 outlets in a room with 7 runs of cat6 per outlet...my bad...

i spent money where I planned it to be and expect to spend a little bit if I needed more of what I expected or planned...

i understand your intention about the ethernet outlets not defining the furniture layout but what you did may have well contradicted your intention and you didn't know it...

but then again, you're the guy who does everything in overdrive mode...400amp on a residential setting...

»The renovation continues ... today new 400 amp service!


jeffmoss26

join:2002-07-22
Beachwood, OH
reply to pandora



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to pandora

LOL! (@jeffmoss26)

Ok. I just overheard one dept guy needing to order 100K ft of Cat5e and another 200K feet of hidensity bundle (2 Cat5e, 2 Cat5 phone, multimode fiber 50micron and all wrapped around a RG6Quad).

2 miles is nothing...
--
Splat



jeffmoss26

join:2002-07-22
Beachwood, OH
reply to pandora

My uncle works for one of the large datacom distributors, they sell MILES of cable for hospitals, new office buildings, etc. Some of these numbers just dumbfound me...lol


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

3 edits
reply to jeffmoss26

when our manufacturing bldg. was being built, i saw boxes and boxes of cat6 and fiber being laid out as planned....i would presume we probably laid out at least 2 miles or more...

in my bullpen alone with 4 workstations, each station had 2 runs of cat6, 1 for voice and 1 for data. office alone has like 50 runs or more and manufacturing floor filled with network capable cnc, grinding, turning, milling etc. machines not counting the network connected / monitored processes and or machines are like 50-75 runs....

but 28 runs on one single room in a house? that's insane!! not to mention the waste of money...all for the love of gigabit gaming...

m sure the low voltage company was seeing dollar signs for the install...



leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

I don't understand why pandora See Profile is getting so much criticism for his plans. If I could afford it I would wire my home with a similar number of cables (if not more, I'd probably add some cables for purposes he hasn't mentioned).

Those who can't imagine about furniture being rearranged every couple of years probably aren't married. If you are raising children you find that not only does furniture change but the entire purpose of some rooms tends to change over time.

Having that many outlets with multiple communication cables in each room clearly is luxury but I don't think it is unreasonable. If it is done when the rooms are being build (as is the case here with the new home addition) then the added costs aren't that extreme either (a retrofit of that many outlets in an existing home is a totally different story).
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

quote:
Those who can't imagine about furniture being rearranged every couple of years probably aren't married. If you are raising children you find that not only does furniture change but the entire purpose of some rooms tends to change over time.
Not that often for moving furniture - maybe once every 3-4 years max and the rooms - have not really changed in purpose.

Certainly if he can afford it - more power to him but I can fully understand the insanity of 20+ drops per room.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to leibold

said by leibold:

I don't understand why pandora See Profile is getting so much criticism for his plans. If I could afford it I would wire my home with a similar number of cables (if not more, I'd probably add some cables for purposes he hasn't mentioned).

Those who can't imagine about furniture being rearranged every couple of years probably aren't married. If you are raising children you find that not only does furniture change but the entire purpose of some rooms tends to change over time.

you rearrange furniture every 2 years just because you got kids?

i got kids too and I don't rearrange furniture every 2 years, in fact, I haven't moved any of my furniture for the last 5 years. unless of course, we get some more.

his plans are for his use and our criticisms are for him to listen / ponder or ignore however he chooses.

everybody incl. me can't understand his 28 runs in one room in a 1970's house with an addition. even he himself admitted that only some will be active...it's not like he's gonna have 10 to 12 hardwired devices in one or every room, unless it's the home theater room or similar, but hey, it's his money right!?


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 recommendation

said by medbuyer:

even he himself admitted that only some will be active...it's not like he's gonna have 10 to 12 hardwired devices in one or every room

You are looking at it from a different point of view. Your view seems to be that if you spend money on installing those cables you want to get some benefit/use out of them. That is of course a perfectly valid point of view, but not the one I'm using to look at it (and by the sound of it pandora See Profile too).

The alternate point of view is that for those 2 to 4 networked devices that actually end up in the room there is going to be a conveniently close outlet that can be used without running a long patch cord across the entire room. There clearly is an added cost for this convenience and in my own home I only have one cable drop (two outlets) per room (retrofitting an old home is just too much work or too expensive). That doesn't stop me from wishing I had many more, especially when I have to use one of those mini-switches. Those mini-switches tend to block several power outlets with their external power supplies which then means I no longer have the power outlet I need for the network device I want to attach (this means using a power-strip for an even bigger mess of cables).
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


jig

join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA

1 recommendation

reply to leibold

spoken by someone who hasn't crimped 28 cat6 cables to corresponding rj45 ends...

i don't really see a rational person thinking that furniture will change more than once in a child's room... there's basically a single transition from when they're "young" to when they start driving, and that's mainly to conform the bed to their growing length and to add (if it's not already there) a school work desk. that's pretty easy to plan for. no mention of conduit for the runs, so when cat7 comes out or you need fiber, what are you going to do?

i'll note that the number of runs bandied about here far exceeds the cabling colleges supply in their dorms.

this really sounds like a commercial install for an already specified business need, not a residence. beyond that, many parents would prefer their kids (1) use media appliances in a central location where they can be periodically monitored, and (2) have bedrooms that are geared more towards sleeping, not sequestering themselves away from the rest of the family. 400amp service, rooms with cameras outside the doors, almost 30 cat6 runs to each room... doesn't add up. i'd have to look it up, but i think that's significantly more than what kim dot com had in his house in NZ, and that's not really a rational measure, is it?
--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

said by jig:

i don't really see a rational person thinking that furniture will change more than once in a child's room... there's basically a single transition from when they're "young" to when they start driving, and that's mainly to conform the bed to their growing length and to add (if it's not already there) a school work desk. that's pretty easy to plan for.

When I was growing up I rearranged my room on a regular basis -- sometimes multiple times per year.

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to leibold

said by leibold:

said by medbuyer:

even he himself admitted that only some will be active...it's not like he's gonna have 10 to 12 hardwired devices in one or every room

You are looking at it from a different point of view. Your view seems to be that if you spend money on installing those cables you want to get some benefit/use out of them. That is of course a perfectly valid point of view, but not the one I'm using to look at it (and by the sound of it pandora See Profile too).

The alternate point of view is that for those 2 to 4 networked devices that actually end up in the room there is going to be a conveniently close outlet that can be used without running a long patch cord across the entire room. There clearly is an added cost for this convenience and in my own home I only have one cable drop (two outlets) per room (retrofitting an old home is just too much work or too expensive). That doesn't stop me from wishing I had many more, especially when I have to use one of those mini-switches. Those mini-switches tend to block several power outlets with their external power supplies which then means I no longer have the power outlet I need for the network device I want to attach (this means using a power-strip for an even bigger mess of cables).

for 2-4 or even 6 devices in one room, wouldn't 3 or even 4 outlets in each wall with 2 cat6 runs be more than enough so that you won't need a switch or anything else that you need to have power nearby?

and again with planning, you can locate those outlets in a good location such that you won't be running long patch cords unless you got a room the size of a football field.

said by robbin:

When I was growing up I rearranged my room on a regular basis -- sometimes multiple times per year.

and how many ethernet outlets did you have back then?

you did your own room and that's fine, whatever suited to your zen space is what's important right.


GadgetsRme
RIP lilhurricane
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO

1 edit

2 recommendations

reply to robbin

said by robbin:

said by jig:

i don't really see a rational person thinking that furniture will change more than once in a child's room... there's basically a single transition from when they're "young" to when they start driving, and that's mainly to conform the bed to their growing length and to add (if it's not already there) a school work desk. that's pretty easy to plan for.

When I was growing up I rearranged my room on a regular basis -- sometimes multiple times per year.

My daughter in law rearranges furniture anywhere from 3 to 6 times a year just because she likes to do it. They have a house that would make you scream to cable. The kids are sent outdoors if they need play time, no gaming on the computer unless it is educational, so for them wireless works. Pandora has gaming requirements so hard wired connection is better. Pandora wants minimum exposure of cables and switches so multiple access points are required. It is a personal preference on how to do it. Anyone denigrating his choice is really out of line. Saying you wouldn't do it that way is one thing, being critical calling it stupid or any other similar adjective is another and really not acceptable.

Edit: spelling
--
Gadgets

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

1 edit

said by GadgetsRme:

Anyone denigrating his choice is really out of line. Saying you wouldn't do it that way is one thing, being critical calling it stupid or any other similar adjective is another and really not acceptable.

you know that dslreports are forums right? where anybody can voice out their opinion whether it's right or wrong and however the OP chooses to digest those is up to him...

bottomline is everybody or rather most who have read and or posted just can't understand his planned network. if gaming is his forte, nobody's questioning that.

if he offered more details as to why, then maybe we could have all understood a little better but there wasn't any.

but you know what, I would love to see pics of this install, location and all...maybe even when it's in use...with all that wiring, his house might be a good cover candidate for Electronic House magazine...but wait, he didn't say how many speaker runs of 12 gage in wall rated wire he did....

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by medbuyer:

said by GadgetsRme:

Anyone denigrating his choice is really out of line. Saying you wouldn't do it that way is one thing, being critical calling it stupid or any other similar adjective is another and really not acceptable.

but wait, he didn't say how many speaker runs of 12 gage in wall rated wire he did....

Probably like 8 drops every 72 inches.


MSauk
MSauk
Premium
join:2002-01-17
Sandy, UT
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to pandora

Hell I am not going to lie, I am jealous! I wish I could do something like that in the house we own right now. You know how nice it would be and it would also clean up a lot of cables laying around.

Congrats on that, nice job
--
801 Images


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by MSauk:

Hell I am not going to lie, I am jealous! I wish I could do something like that in the house we own right now. You know how nice it would be and it would also clean up a lot of cables laying around.

Congrats on that, nice job

no way to fish new cables?

if I could do it all over again, I'd do 4 outlets too but only 2 runs of cat6 and 2 runs of rg6 per room. kitchen, living room, family room, front, garage and back door entrances and the garage itself get 2 cat6 and 2 coax each, not counting the thermostats and security panel..but the biggest splurge would be the media room or home theater room or even the family room, i'd say a dozen cat6 and a dozen coax, fiber and hdmi as planned per home theater equipment needs.

others have advocated running conduit so you can add / replace cables easily but that depends on the structure of the house if it's feasible...


jig

join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
reply to GadgetsRme

said by GadgetsRme:

Anyone denigrating his choice is really out of line. Saying you wouldn't do it that way is one thing, being critical calling it stupid or any other similar adjective is another and really not acceptable.

i brought the rationale up because i question it on a more fundamental level. if you'd prefer, you can imagine that the extent of my criticism left off at suggesting pandora install large-bore low-voltage conduit that's easy to fish cables through, if he were going to go through the trouble to do all that cabling anyway. he certainly doesn't appear to be cost-adverse or reluctant to over-engineer.
--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.


MSauk
MSauk
Premium
join:2002-01-17
Sandy, UT
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to medbuyer

said by medbuyer:

said by MSauk:

Hell I am not going to lie, I am jealous! I wish I could do something like that in the house we own right now. You know how nice it would be and it would also clean up a lot of cables laying around.

Congrats on that, nice job

no way to fish new cables?

if I could do it all over again, I'd do 4 outlets too but only 2 runs of cat6 and 2 runs of rg6 per room. kitchen, living room, family room, front, garage and back door entrances and the garage itself get 2 cat6 and 2 coax each, not counting the thermostats and security panel..but the biggest splurge would be the media room or home theater room or even the family room, i'd say a dozen cat6 and a dozen coax, fiber and hdmi as planned per home theater equipment needs.

others have advocated running conduit so you can add / replace cables easily but that depends on the structure of the house if it's feasible...

To be honest I wouldn't know how to do it. I would have to pay it out to someone.
--
801 Images

nocannothave

join:2006-10-14
Kennewick, WA

I don't mind having a switch in my "busy" rooms (office, server, and media), but one less device would be nice. Take that saved money and invest in a bitchin' managed switch to cover the whole house.


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to MSauk

said by MSauk:

To be honest I wouldn't know how to do it. I would have to pay it out to someone.

and there's nothing wrong with paying somebody to do it as long as they do it properly.

it takes off the blame from yourself if something goes wrong...lol

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to nocannothave

said by nocannothave:

I don't mind having a switch in my "busy" rooms (office, server, and media), but one less device would be nice. Take that saved money and invest in a bitchin' managed switch to cover the whole house.

it's intriguing how much money the OP spent to have all those wires laid out, marked, fastened etc...

knowing the OP is in CT, it might be a good sum....if I remember correctly, when I had my house built, the low voltage guy was charging me somewhere $50-75 i think per cable run in addition to what the bldg. plans called for.

prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2
reply to pandora

fridges may have an Ethernet port in the future, but all appliances that will be connected will be wireless or over power line. Why? Nobody likes having 1 cord, nevermind 2 running to a device. A fridge is a little easier because it doesn't move and the cords are hidden behind.

On top of that, 99.99% of houses simply aren't wired for it. If you're marketing a product, you're going to make it work for as many people as you can, not just the people who have prewired their house with an rj45 everywhere. By solely having an RJ 45 on a device you limit it to very few homes, whereas the majority of people who have Internet have wireless (I'm sure a small fraction of high speed don't have wireless, dial up is a different story). Every device needs power though which makes powerline more probable than ethernet