tberg
join:2001-08-23
Greenville, SC | Water leak under slab I noticed that my water bill jumped the last two months and I'm not watering the garden anymore. I did a little checking and found that if I turned off the valve to the water heater, the water meter stopped turning.
So, that means I have a water leak in my hot water lines. The problem is that my house is on slab. I'm losing about 1500 gallons per month or 50 gallons per day. That's one water heater full per day.
How do you go about finding and fixing a problem like this without taking a jack hammer to the whole house? Are there detection devices that can get you within a few feet?
I see no signs of water leakage from "above".
Thanks in advance for any tips. Of course, as a DIYer, I don't want to call the pros unless I really have to. |
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Zach 58Premium
join:2006-11-26
NW Minnesota | First thought would be to walk around the house in bare feet. If you are loosing 50 gallons of hot water a day, there is a good chance the floor will be warmer in the area close to the leak. Fixing the leak will probably require a jackhammer or rerunning in the attic. Not likely to be a simple, easy fix.
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Zach |
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garys_2kPremium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI | reply to tberg
Personally, I'd abandon the leaky pipe and run a new one above the slab, even if it meant a drywall soffit here or there. If the pipe has started to leak at one point it's quite likely the whole thing is nearly rotted out. |
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 John97Over The Hills And Far AwayPremium
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
 ·Bright House
| reply to tberg
Is your T&P valve piped into a drain or anything? Maybe it's something as simple as that.
If not, and it's a pipe lieak I think garys_2k is right on the mark.
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So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time... |
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| reply to tberg
In my current house, the cold water pipes started leaking under the slab long long ago. We simply abandoned them in-place, and ran new pipe for both hot and cold through the attic. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to tberg
Find someone with a FLIR (infrared) camera. Some of the home inspectors have them as well as some of the energy conservation testing companies. The camera with an experienced operator can detect moisture.
Haven't found a place to rent one in my area but they do rent them some places. The camera sells for over $6000 so you probably don't want to just go out and buy one! |
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 mityfowlPremium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX | reply to tberg
Eliminate the T & P valve 1st.
Find where it drains. Mine was buried about an inch in dirt and mulch. |
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 leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6
 ·SONIC.NET
| reply to tberg
At that flow rate you may also be able to follow the route of the leaking pipe acoustically.
As for the thermal imaging (probably the best way given that it is hot water that is leaking), some utility companies have a free service that performs a home energy efficiency audit. Some of those energy audits include thermal imaging of your home.
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Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to Raphion
said by Raphion:In my current house, the cold water pipes started leaking under the slab long long ago. We simply abandoned them in-place, and ran new pipe for both hot and cold through the attic.
It gets down to "0" at times here. Not a very viable idea. |
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| reply to robbin
said by robbin:Find someone with a FLIR (infrared) camera. Some of the home inspectors have them as well as some of the energy conservation testing companies. The camera with an experienced operator can detect moisture.
Haven't found a place to rent one in my area but they do rent them some places. The camera sells for over $6000 so you probably don't want to just go out and buy one!
I would LOVE to go out and buy one of those cameras. So much fun, and so many uses... but I still just can't justify the price of a reasonably good one.  |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to leibold
said by leibold:As for the thermal imaging (probably the best way given that it is hot water that is leaking) The interesting part is that it doesn't matter if it is hot water or not. FLIR cameras appear to be great for moisture detection of any kind.
»lmgtfy.com/?q=FLIR+moisture+detection |
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leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
| reply to Raphion
said by Raphion:I would LOVE to go out and buy one of those cameras. So much fun, and so many uses... but I still just can't justify the price of a reasonably good one.
I got the opportunity to use one during emergency preparedness training and they told us prices have come down significantly as more and more fire departments are buying them (still about $4000 if you want all the extra features for firefighters). We used it to locate people in a smoke filled room and it was pretty amazing (due to the smoke there was zero visibility with flashlights).
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Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:said by Raphion:In my current house, the cold water pipes started leaking under the slab long long ago. We simply abandoned them in-place, and ran new pipe for both hot and cold through the attic.
It gets down to "0" at times here. Not a very viable idea. Actually quite viable if done right. Our master bath pipes are in the ceiling and the low so far this winter has been -5F. The pipes are in foam insulation, right on top of the rafters, and buried in R60 insulation. We haven't had them freeze in the 5 winters we been here. The lowest temp has been around -20F.
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Gadgets |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | said by GadgetsRme:said by Jack_in_VA:said by Raphion:In my current house, the cold water pipes started leaking under the slab long long ago. We simply abandoned them in-place, and ran new pipe for both hot and cold through the attic.
It gets down to "0" at times here. Not a very viable idea. Actually quite viable if done right. Our master bath pipes are in the ceiling and the low so far this winter has been -5F. The pipes are in foam insulation, right on top of the rafters, and buried in R60 insulation. We haven't had them freeze in the 5 winters we been here. The lowest temp has been around -20F. Could it be enough heat rises through the ceiling to keep the pipes above freezing? How about if the power is off and no heat is present? They would have to equalize to the ambient temperature regardless of insulation level.
I don't think I would take that chance |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | Sometimes there is no option. If the lines are bad under the slab, depending on the floor plan, jack hammering isn't necessarily the best answer. If the power goes out (with no heat for an extended time) well insulated pipes in the attic aren't really any different than pipes in a two story house. Either the house needs to be maintained at some heat level above freezing or the system MUST be drained. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | said by robbin:Sometimes there is no option. If the lines are bad under the slab, depending on the floor plan, jack hammering isn't necessarily the best answer. If the power goes out (with no heat for an extended time) well insulated pipes in the attic aren't really any different than pipes in a two story house. Either the house needs to be maintained at some heat level above freezing or the system MUST be drained.
Agree Robbin. That's something that can happen and I know I'm on a slab but not going to take that chance. I have emergency propane heat for minimum use but not enough to prevent that. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to tberg
You might be able to see it with a good heat gun. Just a thought. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | Could you expand on that? Are you talking about a contractor's heat gun (industrial hair dryer/melter)? Or are you referring to the FLIR camera I previously recommended? Just trying to understand -- I have a heat gun out in the van, but can't figure out how to see anything with it.
[edit] Had to look this up as I wasn't positive of the words behind the acronym -- FLIR - Forward Looking Infrared Radiometer |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | I completly screwed up the description. I meant:
infarared heat indicator hand held. Point and read temp.
There are a lot of hand held ones ranging from cheap to very good. I was thinking op may could find one or borrow one sensitive enough to see a temperature difference. Just a thought. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | Ok -- so you are thinking it may be possible to see a temp difference with a handheld IR thermometer. Be worth playing with if a person had or could borrow one. Doubt it would be worth the gamble if had to buy it. Good thought, though. I'd try it if I had one.
Actually the OP didn't describe their house. I have, in the past, used a cheap moisture detector on slab, tile joints as well as a hardwood floor to find a leak in a wall. It's amazing how what looks pretty much the same with the eye can have 10 to 20% difference in moisture content. Paid about $35 for mine at Lowes. Could possibly get you within 5 feet or less from my experience. |
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