dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
1116
share rss forum feed

skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON

[DSL] Line is bad on weekends

Hello everyone

What can be the reason for the DSL to have higher noise on certain periods of time?

Usually I have SNR Margin (0.1 db) = ~100. Not the highest value, but works fine. The problem is that somehow on weekends this value have a tendency to drop sometimes up to 10-20., which basically means a disconnect.

This had already happened this morning at least five times. Every time i need to reboot the modem for a short relief until it goes offline again. (I'm happy I'm able to post this here, now it shows - SNR Margin (0.1 dB): 68. )

The thing is, I have almost no problems on week days. I come from work and I use my interned with maybe one disconnect in a week.

TS people at tech support and here are unsure what's happening. I even had a Bell guy come to my apartment (I live in high rise), did some splitter rewiring, the problem was gone for a couple of weeks then came back.

I've been noticing this tendency for a couple of months for sure.

Has anyone had the same problem?



ChuckcZar

@teksavvy.com

A SNR of 6 is usually where you could lose your connection. I have no idea in the world what you're trying to get across with 0.1db. A drop in SNR means a lower number not a higher one.


skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON

Yeah, that's kinda misleading. But that's what it shows in my control panel of my router. 0.1 means that 10 is really a 1 db. 60 is 6db, so yeah, at 6 db it usually drops.

The problem is that the whole day today it's been dropping below that mark. I can't remember if I had a stable connection for over a half an hour today. I can put my money on it that tomorrow I won't have a single problem. It's very very periodical.


JeanInNepean

join:2012-09-19
Nepean, ON

Are the numbers for downstream and upstream similar or is it just one of the streams? I find my SNR margins are higher after a reset and slowly decrease the longer the connection stays up. So I do periodic resets to keep my numbers up.


skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON

The problem is that at bad times I need to do restarts every 5 minutes to even have internet connection. Noise just goes to 1-2 db and stays there. There's got to be some interference, but it even happens at night when I literally have nothing running except my fridge. I don't know about neighbors though, I live in high rise.

Incidentally I can't find quiet spot on AM radio in that area, but I can't do anything, as the splitter is installed there. Maybe just buy longer phone cord and put modem somewhere else.

And it seems to be happening all the time now. Ever since I posted this message I had terrible online experience. Other times it's absolutely fine for days.


stevey_frac

join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON
reply to skylynx

I wouldn't expect a longer phone cord to help. In fact, I'd expect it to hurt as it would act as an antenna.

-Steve


skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON

Well then I don't know what to do. Noise margin dropped below (or above) 6 db two times in the last 20 minutes, had to reboot both times.

I have my router (TP-Link TD-W8960N) currently on the fridge. I thought that might be the case. I know, it fridge can produce interference but the splitter is right there. And besides it used to work just fine. This whole thing started in October.


MZB

join:2010-11-25
Dunrobin, ON

I'd guess RFI.

Bad stats at night (I have them) can be due to (a) lighting, faulty street lights, etc. (b) AM radio stations. Both have time-of-year effects (dusk/dawn turns lights on/off, radio propagation is different at night.

Weekends suggests an effect from something electrical you or your neighbour (and that means anybody near your DSL line back to the switch/remote) runs when home at weekends. Could be heating (winter only, more used at weekends?)

I also note temperature effects (I'm at the end of a long run)


skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON

You know, I actually bought 3.6 m telephone cable and moved my modem away next to my laptop and surprisingly the line's been great so far. Despite me even using additional splitter on the way just to extend the cord. I really expected terrible results, tried out of curiosity, but it turned out well. Will check in the morning.

PS Maybe that's the case for my 6 Mb/s. Perhaps on higher ADSL2 speeds those conditions would harm the connection.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

Impulse Noise always a fun headache, putting in a ticket for intermittent sync on a Line with impulse noise is going to be difficult to get a tech to fix for a third-party, Though it is a simple fix of changing the wire going from the Opi to your home, to a new pair.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


JeanInNepean

join:2012-09-19
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy TekTalk
·voip.ms
·Primus Talkbroad..
·igs.net
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to stevey_frac

said by stevey_frac:

I wouldn't expect a longer phone cord to help. In fact, I'd expect it to hurt as it would act as an antenna.

Not quite true. Parallel wires and twisted pairs don't pick much of RF interference (other than common-mode noise which is eliminated when the connection enters a transformer). However, longer cabling will increase the signal attenuation, but a few meters of good wiring won't have much of an effect if the rest of the line is already a km long or more.

skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

Impulse Noise always a fun headache, putting in a ticket for intermittent sync on a Line with impulse noise is going to be difficult to get a tech to fix for a third-party, Though it is a simple fix of changing the wire going from the Opi to your home, to a new pair.

I'm in a high building so it's not possible i think.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

You are i am Sure, But That cable runs god Knows where.. keep in mind it has to run to the street and to the c/o, But moving your Modem Seems to have resolved it? what was your modem previously near? curious minds
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON

Two weeks since last reply but still for curious minds..

It didn't help. Noise margin became better by 1 db but it still spikes and loses sync. Previously my modem was on the fridge next to the in-wall splitter. I bought 7m telephone cable and put it next to my laptop.

Now, interesting thing:

sunday - terrible internet, desyncs every 10 minutes
monday - everything's perfect (!)
tuesday - terrible internet again

I'm scratching my head trying to think of a reason. There is nothing that's changed in my apartment.


MrMazda86

join:2013-01-29
Kitchener, ON
reply to skylynx

I would be curious to look at all of the ends of your junction points. From the sounds of it, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that either the jack itself that you were plugging into is older and/or has developed some sort of a minor short. This usually appears as a darker discolouration (or oxidization) of the wires, or the metal surfaces. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the problem go away if you were to replace that phone jack (which you can pick up cheap at a hardware store), then cut the exposed metal end of every wire (where it joins to the new wire), then re-strip the end to ensure that you have shiny and non-oxidized metal directly at each of the connection points.

The trouble here is that sometimes, you may not always be able to fully see the short or beginning of a short on the end of the wire, which can increase the line noise. When this happens, the wiring may attract external interference, which will directly result in this exact problem. Your best option is to use the little red and clear 3-wire snap-on connector pieces to join the wires, unless they attach into a phone jack. This too will help eliminate any interference, as they're filled with a special gel that will help keep the exposed ends from oxidizing, and will help as an insulator to help protect the wiring from acting as an antenna.

Lastly, also be sure to check the phone cord that runs to the DSL modem itself to ensure that it too has "shiny" connectors on the tip, as this will also directly impact the line noise. I have found the overall line noise issues that I've experienced over the years to be traceable back to a junction point or jack somewhere in the line. As a last resort to determine if you've found the problem, when your connection drops, call Bell from a phone other than that phone line. You will want to escalate the call to the Bell Test Centre Ontario. One of the key things that will serve as a tell-a-tale sign of this type of a problem will be the electrical resistance of the telephone line. There is one other test that they should run that will also determine if there may be a ground on a line, which is can often be caused by a faulty telephone that uses a D/C power source such as an adapter or batteries to control it's electrical functions like the call display.

Just a few tidbits you may find useful...

(Edit: I also forgot to mention... If it's black and/or it's green, white, and fuzzy, you have also found your problem... This is generally the symptom of a more major short, which will also tend to take out voice services on the line as well.)


monsoon66

join:2007-01-13
Toronto, ON
reply to skylynx

I live in a highrise building and when I had DSL I used to have similar problems.

Although I wouldn't lose sync as often as OP would, my connection would be noticeably worse on weekends than it would on weekdays. I also would usually sync at something like 2496 on weekends and sync at 3008 on weekdays.

It would be worse in the cold months as well so I thought it might have to do with heating, or the water (from rain or snow) getting into the ground.

I looked all over my apartment for ways to improve my line but nothing worked. Re-wired all the jacks but no luck. Had tickets opened with Bell and sometimes the line would stabilize for a while then go back to being bad a month or two later.

I once spoke to a Bell tech that I randomly bumped into the lobby of my building and asked why I had a bad connection. He said it was because the "board" where all the lines for each apartment are connected was old equipment that was not meant to handle the load of broadband connections. He said sometimes a tech can move the line onto a good spot on this "board", but other times they might move you to a bad spot in favour of a Bell customer.

I don't know if he was talking out of his ass because from what I know about DSL I didn't hear of those types of situations.

It was really frustrating so I ended up switching to cable and now I get better speeds and a solid connection.


skylynx

join:2012-10-08
Toronto, ON
reply to skylynx

@MrMazda86: Bell tech rewired my in-wall splitter in december. It is the only jack I have inside my apartment, I don't think it would degrade that fast unless he did a poor job. And I bought my cord three weeks ago at Source.

And again, it couldn't short-circuit for a day, then stop, then again short-circuit. It comes periodically.

@monsoon66: That is depressing if they can do that. I'd move to cable, but I'm a gamer, I don't really care about speed, I need good latency. I read that cable is inferior at that aspect.



TryThisIdea

@acanac.net
reply to skylynx

I used to have strange problems with line noise where it seemed like noise would build up getting worse and worse until it caused a disconnect. Then I would fiddle around with it, reboot the modem, and everything would seem fine again for a while, until it happened again.

Eventually I ended up with an old rotary phone (one that takes no electricity) on the line because I had been listening for noise, and I left it off the hook, and suddenly the line stabilized. I leave the phone there on the line off the hook now forever. This is using a VDSL phone splitter, one of the ones that you attach on the wiring coming into the house. I am also on dry loop.

Seems strange, but works for me. It seems so predictable now if I take the phone off the line the noise comes back.

Of course the phone goes silent after beeping for a while so I have no idea what it could be doing. Maybe it is voodoo.

Maybe give it a try.


JeanInNepean

join:2012-09-19
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy TekTalk
·voip.ms
·Primus Talkbroad..
·igs.net
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to skylynx

I had a similar problem recently. Explanation from a tech: phone wires have an average lifetime of 20 years; the ones in my backyard are over 40 years old. With time, the insulators crack and break and when water reaches the copper, the lines get shorted. Though my connection to the DSLAM is less than 750m, the attenuation looks like it's much farther away. The solution was to switch the two pairs, or to install a new line. Tech switched the pairs and now everything looks good.


MrMazda86

join:2013-01-29
Kitchener, ON
reply to skylynx

said by skylynx:

@MrMazda86: Bell tech rewired my in-wall splitter in december. It is the only jack I have inside my apartment, I don't think it would degrade that fast unless he did a poor job. And I bought my cord three weeks ago at Source.

And again, it couldn't short-circuit for a day, then stop, then again short-circuit. It comes periodically.

One would seem to think that it wouldn't short, however I did encounter this very problem with one of my phone jacks that was causing strikingly similar issues. It turned out that all I had to do was replace the kitchen phone jack, and the jack in the living room that piggy-backs off of it. Both jacks were old, and when I looked at the wiring under it, it was all dull and degraded. Cutting the bare copper off and re-stripping the wiring when I replaced both jacks fixed the problem for good.

said by JeanInNepean:

I had a similar problem recently. Explanation from a tech: phone wires have an average lifetime of 20 years; the ones in my backyard are over 40 years old. With time, the insulators crack and break and when water reaches the copper, the lines get shorted. Though my connection to the DSLAM is less than 750m, the attenuation looks like it's much farther away. The solution was to switch the two pairs, or to install a new line. Tech switched the pairs and now everything looks good.

I think you could be onto something there. While this wouldn't necessarily cause any issues within the house itself, if the underground wire or the wiring at the junction box were to have this issue, that would explain it. Given the variations in weather, that would also explain the inconsistency of the line noise also.