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Jedi Poster
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·Champion Broadba..

Scandal? Griffin wasn't cleared to play by team doc

Short version is Shanahan continues to say the team doctor cleared Griffin to play for the game this week. The team doctor according to various sources, of which only two are below, denies he ever cleared Griffin and that he wasn’t even permitted to examine him at a certain point in time. Griffin allegedly continually denied being "injured," claiming he was just "hurt" and able to play.

Somebody isn’t telling the truth.

»www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf···1812693/

»sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne···d=cnnbin



HiVolt
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Scandal? come on... lol



I AM
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reply to Blogger

Back in the days they called it sucking it up and playing.



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reply to HiVolt

Griffin missed most of his sophomore year of football due to a torn ACL in his knee.

He injured his knee and ACL about a month ago. It significantly limited his ability to run or move properly and safely.

He re injured or aggravated it further in the last game of the season. He was obviously worse off than before.

During the game yesterday he was obviously in bad shape and he obviously deteriorated as the game went on. Eventually, untouched his knee gave out and he collapsed and was unable to continue. (One doesn't need to be doctor or even know much about injuries to know that at the very least Griffin should have been pulled from yesterday's game at some time way before the end and perhaps he shouldn't have even been allowed to start.

Now given the above you see nothing extremely seriously wrong in the fact that the team orthopedist claims he wasn't allowed to examine Griffin and that he never told the coach that Griffin was OK to play. He also added that he was terrified and anxious watching him struggle to play on the knee.

Shanahan on the other hand claims the doctor examined Griffin and told Shanahan that Griffin was cleared to play.

Meanwhile pending diagnostic results from exams today and tomorrow the seriousness of Griffin's injury is to be revealed.

The pending diagnosis and prognosis has been acknowledged as cautious and guarded.



berserken

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2 edits
reply to Blogger

said by Blogger:

Short version is Shanahan continues to say the team doctor cleared Griffin to play for the game this week.

The team doctor according to various sources, of which only two are below, denies he ever cleared Griffin and that he wasn't even permitted to examine him at a certain point in time.

Only the first of your two of "various" sources says anything about what Andrews claims vs. Shanahan.

said by USA Today, first of "various" sources :

Shanahan said that after Griffin originally suffered a sprained lateral collateral ligament vs. the Baltimore Ravens on Dec. 9, Andrews had cleared him to return. Griffin came out of the 31-28 victory after colliding with defensive tackle Haloti Ngata. He limped off the field for one play, then re-entered the game for four plays before removing himself.

The following day, Shanahan said he let Griffin return with the blessing of Andrews. But Andrews told USA TODAY Sports on Saturday that he never cleared Griffin to return, because he never even examined him.

"(Griffin) didn't even let us look at him," Andrews said.

What's disputed, here, is what happened Dec. 9, not yesterday's game. Also, "he (Andrews) wasn't even permitted to examine him (Griffin) at a certain point in time" implies a bit more in the way of sensational malfeasance than what is reported, elsewhere, as Griffin, himself, refusing an examination.

said by Blogger:

Griffin allegedly continually denied being "injured," claiming he was just "hurt" and able to play.

Your second source does weigh in on this but neither source you cite, nor any I have heard, seems skeptical about this claim or has felt it necessary to insert "allegedly".

Accuracy is often sacrificed for the sake of "scandal".


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2 edits

Griffin was either injured or he wasn't.
He was examined by the team doctor or he wasn't. If he was then he was either cleared or he wasn't. The doctor either told Shanahan of his finding or he didn't.

A more complete picture.

»msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/robe···e-010613

»espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/st···seahawks

(The text of the article addresses the issue more directly and informatively than the video that discussed a different aspect than the issue of the doctor’s opinion and clearance or lack of clearance or if did or did not communicate with Shanahan.)

»www.clevelandleader.com/node/19786

»www.businessinsider.com/video-ro···t-2013-1

www.google.com

The above facts completely aside, it was obvious that as the playoff game progressed he should not have been allowed to continue to play both from a health standpoint and an effective standpoint.

The end result of him collapsing untouched and being unable to continue speaks for itself.


berserken

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So what? I found issue with your inaccurate statements and implications. "google.com" isn't addressing the issue, so far. In fact, one of your "new" sources supports my complaint:

"I've been a nervous wreck letting him come back as quick as he has," Andrews told USA Today.

»espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/st···seahawks

If that's the case, Andrews doesn't seem to have objected to Griffin playing.

The reality is not that extraordinary, far from your original reach for "Scandal".


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1 edit

Boy you are just seem determined to pick a fight and with the wrong person, me, who is just the mailman.

I never said there was a scandal. I asked if there was, and then provided lead info to put my question in context. Please read the title of this thread and of the OP. Note the punctuation! It's pretty clear and forthright. It's not like anything I just said was obscured or hidden in any way. Based upon your responses to it you seem confused on the preceding.

In the text of the posts I accurately reported that it was reported in several main stream media reports that the doctor said: He didn't examine Griffin. That he wasn't permitted to do so. He never told Shanahan that Griffin was fit or cleared to play. During the game the doctor said words to the effect that watching Griffin out on the field the doctor was very apprehensive and worried about his injury or well being.

If any of what was reported was inaccurate or misleading its not my fault.

I only offered my opinion that Griffin should either not have been allowed to play or given the events as the game progressed the evidence was overwhelming that he should have been taken out of the game. I submit that my opinion was validated by his overtly increasing physical discomfort combined with decreasing mobility and competitive effectiveness and finally as million saw how he end his play in the game.

I'll supplement the above by saying that Shanahan in this case definitely made a bad decision at the very least in leaving Griffin in. He should have IMO been replaced at the half, or after a couple of series in the second half.



berserken

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Whatev



FFH
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reply to Blogger

Griffin may end up missing a part of next season, no matter whose fault it was.
»espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/88219···ests-acl

An injury that sidelines RG3 well into next season is a very real possibility -- or at least it seemed that way Monday after coach Mike Shanahan described the results of tests on the rookie's right knee.

Shanahan said the results are prompting the team to send Griffin to Florida on Tuesday to see renowned orthopedist James Andrews for more examinations, essentially a second opinion that will decide the team's fate for the 2013 season.

"There is a concern," Shanahan said. "That's why he's going to see him."

Shanahan was grilled about his handling of Griffin's injury. Already playing with a heavy black brace in his third game since spraining a lateral collateral ligament, Griffin hurt the knee again when he fell awkwardly while throwing a pass in the first quarter of Sunday's 24-14 playoff loss to the Seattle Seahawks.

Griffin stayed in the game, but he was far from his usual self, clearly favoring the knee and unable to run with the world-class speed that helped define his play early in the season.

Shanahan said he thought he made the "right decisions" to keep Griffin in the game and that it would be "crazy" to think he would purposely sacrifice Griffin's career to win a game. He said he did not talk to team doctors initially after Griffin was hurt in the first quarter, instead relying on Griffin's word.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the coach risked more damage to his QB in order to get a playoff win. If Griffin is seriously injured and misses most of next year, he may come to regret that decision.
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He started out with just a common sprain of his lateral collateral ligament sustained on one play against the Ravens.

We all are familiar with events after that play and injury as detailed to some extent in this thread and from other sources as well and also the controversy that evolved over time after the Raven game and ending at the end the game yesterday against the Seattle.

Today it has been revealed that he is suffering from a partial tear of both the anterior collateral ligament, (the same ligament that caused him to miss most of his sophomore year of FB in college), and a partial tear the lateral collateral ligament. It is yet to be decided if surgery is need and if so how extensive. Griffin has stated he hopes for the most conservative surgical procedure should surgery be needed.



Draiman
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reply to Blogger

I know it's a slow time in sports but this reads like an NFL.com fluff filler article. We can do MUCH better!



footballdude
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reply to Blogger

said by Blogger:

Today it has been revealed that he is suffering from a partial tear of both the anterior collateral ligament, (the same ligament that caused him to miss most of his sophomore year of FB in college), and a partial tear the lateral collateral ligament.

Three first round picks and a second round pick. Skins fans must have an empty, hollow feeling right now. More so than normal.
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said by Draiman:

I know it's a slow time in sports but this reads like an NFL.com fluff filler article. We can do MUCH better!

I'll take your word for it as I've never read any article on NFL.com.

As for this topic it's a fact that one of the NFL's and Redskin's young, exciting stars that is also one of the biggest offensive threats and all around NFL marquee player is seriously injured. In terms of speed of mobility perhaps permanently injured with permanently reduced physical ability for the rest of his career. He also may be more prone to re-injure the same knee again. It will be many months before a clearer picture will emerge.

Most of his multiple knee injuries were according to the media were a result of mismanagement, dishonesty, poor decision making, improper team medical management and care. That's just for starters.

I guess our standards for what constitutes "fluff" are different.


Draiman
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RG3 had an ACL torn in college. Where does that come into this discussion? Little missing pieces of info like that are why this reads like an NFL.com article.



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said by Draiman:

RG3 had an ACL torn in college. Where does that come into this discussion? Little missing pieces of info like that are why this reads like an NFL.com article.

With no disrespect toward you and in all honesty I fail to see the relevancy of your statement to the thread or you opinion about how the prior ACL contributes to a fluff piece and IMO by inference the prior injury is not relevant to his current injuries.

However since your question was asked in good faith I will respond as best as possible.

First off the thread and posts about RG III and his current situation encompassed a whole lot of information, fact and opinions in addition to the fact you are comment on.

His torn ACL in college comes into question in light of recent events because:

His torn ACL in 2009 was so severe that it required reconstructive surgery and he missed a about a year of football while he rehabilitated it.

A repaired ACL is NEVER as strong as the ACL was before it was torn and then repaired/replaced. Everyone involved in the situation with Griffin at Washington knew and continues to know that.

Consequently, when he sprained his left left collateral ligament near the end of the regular season and continued to play he was putting additional strain on the ACL that had all ready once been repaired/replaced and weakened. In other words it just wasn't the LCL that was at risk or an issue by his continued play.

He was allowed to continue to play over time where based upon his play and movement on the field resulted in just about everyone agrees that at some point he shouldn't have been playing. People just disagree to when he should have been sat down. However, regardless he played on the weak and more vulenerable then normal knee and consequently now he has another partially torn ACL and a partially torn LCL with surgery likely and full reconstructive surgery a possibility. (As of yesterday.)

Even if all things medically in terms of treatment turn out optimally he still will come back weaker and more vulnerable to future knee injuries than he was before the new tears.

It would also not be unexpected unexpected that he will come back with at least a bit of a reduction in his speed and agility or ability to cut at speed.

An up to date professional explanation:

»espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/st···torn-lcl


Draiman
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It's all speculation at this point but given your stance he wasn't 100% when he was drafted because of the college injury and would never be at 100%. If he was good enough to be drafted less then 100% why would anyone question him being good enough after another injury given he over came the first one? He could be like Payton Manning and have dozens of surgeries and still be able to win games we just don't know. If the Redskins had won that game this wouldn't even be a discussion. Any Given Sunday.
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said by Draiman:

It's all speculation at this point but given your stance he wasn't 100% when he was drafted because of the college injury and would never be at 100%. If he was good enough to be drafted less then 100% why would anyone question him being good enough after another injury given he over came the first one? He could be like Payton Manning and have dozens of surgeries and still be able to win games we just don't know. If the Redskins had won that game this wouldn't even be a discussion. Any Given Sunday.

I never said he wasn't 100 percent when he was drafted--as in his ability to perform. Never. I only said that he had a previously injured ACL that was repaired/replaced in college and the new ACL wasn't as strong as the old one and therefore more vulnerable to being injured then the original ACL. However, that doesn't mean that he could not perform at 100 percent with the second ACL. He obviously could, I never suggested or stated otherwise. It is not at all uncommon for college players being drafted at the highest level that had not sustained some type of serious injury and even surgery on that injury in college.

However, it is just fact everyone lives with that often the injured part of the athletes body while able to be "healthy" again is still more vulnerable to be re injury. More vulnerable to injury is not the same as guaranteed to be re-injured.

IMO your statement that, "If the Redskins had won that game this wouldn't even be a discussion" is literally astounding to me. IMO you position is totally unsupported by the facts of Griffin's current condition and how he got to where he is at injury wise now. The results of the game is completely irrelevant to that.

I have said that his ability to run at the speed before his latest injuries and his ability to cut while running, especially at speed, is likely to be permanently reduced. Not dramatically curtailed or limited, but reduced. And his succesability to further injury to the knee is greater now when he comes back in light of his current injuries to the knee.

Again, except for you raising the issue, the outcome of the game is not even on the table.


footballdude
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said by Blogger:

I have said that his ability to run at the speed before his latest injuries and his ability to cut while running, especially at speed, is likely to be permanently reduced.

Manning injured his neck. His ability to read defenses, adjust at the line, and deliver an accurate pass weren't destroyed by a neck injury. Once he rahabbed he was able to do what he always did.

RG3 relies on speed and agility. Losing functionality in your knee is a death knell for speed and agility. He couldn't even throw the ball well last weekend because of his bad footwork. At his young age, having the same knee injured twice is a really bad sign. Even if he makes a valient recovery, he's likely to be reduced in functionality and that knee will be a huge target for the rest of his career. Not many guys in the NFL will take a knee out and hurt a guy on purpose, but most of them are perfectly OK with banging the leg up here and there and trying to get him to protect it instead of making a play.

Every athlete declines because of age and/or injury. If you're a Redskins fan, it just has to make you sick to see it starting so soon.
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Draiman
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If you're a Redskins fan you knew it started before they drafted RG3. He'll be like Vick and transition into a pocket passer who occasionally runs. Even Tebow who is a way better runner then RG3 can't cut it as a QB. Anyone who thought RG3 would continue down this road for too long was delusional.
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!



I AM
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said by Draiman:

Even Tebow who is a way better runner then RG3......

WHOOOOOT!


Moorecards

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reply to Blogger

what is funny, remember this :

»content.usatoday.com/communities···AJnfNl8E

The Chicago Bears defended QB Jay Cutler on Sunday after he came under withering criticism from fans, analysts and even fellow players for having left an NFC title game loss to the Green Bay Packers with a knee injury.

No matter what RG3 & the coachs would of done, it would of been wrong .. the media & fans I think just love to complain & bitch & moan when something happens like this .. a huge catch-22 if you ask me ..



Draiman
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said by Moorecards:

what is funny, remember this :

»content.usatoday.com/communities···AJnfNl8E

The Chicago Bears defended QB Jay Cutler on Sunday after he came under withering criticism from fans, analysts and even fellow players for having left an NFC title game loss to the Green Bay Packers with a knee injury.

No matter what RG3 & the coachs would of done, it would of been wrong .. the media & fans I think just love to complain & bitch & moan when something happens like this .. a huge catch-22 if you ask me ..

Yup! Your either not tough enough or have too large of an ego to do what's best for the team. You lose either way in this type of situation.
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!


shaner
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reply to Blogger

»espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/st···y-opener

Full ACL and LCL tear. Complete reconstructive surgery to come.



I AM
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Sad too see.



Draiman
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said by shaner:

»espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/st···y-opener

Full ACL and LCL tear. Complete reconstructive surgery to come.

Weird that what they said then doesn't match what actually happened today.

"A person familiar with the situation told The Associated Press that the procedure was expected to last about two hours. The person said orthopedist James Andrews planned to repair a torn lateral collateral ligament and examine the state of Griffin's ACL."
»sports.yahoo.com/news/redskins-r···nfl.html

Also note this:
"Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson made a remarkable return this season some eight months after tearing an ACL - and nearly broke the NFL's single-season rushing record"

You can have this type of injury and come back better then before!
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!


capdjq
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RGIII is the better hype. Luck and Griffin the rookies with a longer playing life. The Colts made a wise choice and so did Seattle. The style RGIII plays I give him 5 years. In his first year he's already had a concussion and severe knee injuries.

Shanahan should change his play calling and not run the option on first down. When out of the pocket he's fair game for every defender and next year they WILL hit him hard.

Restrict it to 3rd downs and in the red zone and when absolutely necessary.
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Draiman
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'"Robert's ACL is intact, but not enough for his profession," Griffin II said, via text. "You and I could be fine. But he is an athlete. So they will replace."'
»www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000···-surgery
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reply to Draiman

said by Draiman:

said by shaner:

»espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/st···y-opener

Full ACL and LCL tear. Complete reconstructive surgery to come.

Weird that what they said then doesn't match what actually happened today.

"A person familiar with the situation told The Associated Press that the procedure was expected to last about two hours. The person said orthopedist James Andrews planned to repair a torn lateral collateral ligament and examine the state of Griffin's ACL."
»sports.yahoo.com/news/redskins-r···nfl.html

Shaner is correct.

They began the surgery today on Griffin starting with the LCL. While in the knee they saw that that the ACL needed surgery also.

Some players with this type of injury are able to play in the season following the injury. Others have to miss the season following the surgery. With this type of injury it is impossible to accurately predict how fast and how well the athlete will recover.

It will be another 6-8 weeks before a more accurate prognosis can be made regarding the condition of the knee and the time needed to rehabilitate it to be able to return to playing.

Robert Griffin's father confirmed to USA TODAY Sports that it was determined Wednesday that RG3 needed to have his anterior cruciate ligament repaired.

"Robert's ACL is intact, but not enough for his profession," Griffin II said, via text. "You and I could be fine. But he is an athlete. So they will replace."

»www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000···ght-knee

»www.washingtonpost.com/sports/ro···ory.html


Draiman
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'"Robert's ACL is intact, but not enough for his profession," Griffin II said, via text. "You and I could be fine. But he is an athlete. So they will replace."'

»www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000···-surgery

Most definitely NOT a FULL ACL tear as shaner said.
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