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BoteMan

join:2002-11-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL

[Connectivity] Sharing drop with neighbor

A tech came out to install cable in my half of the duplex apartment where I live. The other half of this duplex got Comcast a few months ago. It is served from a pole about 50 feet from the building and I assume that a new drop was run from the pole to his (closer) apartment eaves, then through his wall.

The tech today looked puzzled about how to run the cable drop to me and indicated that he could just split it at my neighbor's service entry point and then run it another 40 feet along the eaves to my half of the duplex.

I thought each customer drop needed to be a separate cable? If not, what problems can arise from sharing the drop from the pole?

My guess is that I might have half the signal I would otherwise get, but whether or not that would cause trouble I don't know yet. We rescheduled for tomorrow for a number of reasons, so I'd like to be prepared for his return.

Any gotchas to watch out for or ask him about?

Thanks.
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gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4
cable is all shared so it makes no difference, unless it puts your signal into the red.

since your in a duplex, it is feasible that your system is designed to have 1 drop per house, so this could be the correct way. alot of duplexes around here are like that, it just depends on the layout.
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sapreaper

join:2007-06-01
united state
reply to BoteMan
I have NEVER seen this...period... Although i never worked for Comcast thank the lord, I worked for another Cable company in my area. Under NO circumstances were we EVER to share a drop on a duplex. (If this is NOT how comcast does it, then i guess you are SoL and must share)
Not understanding why he could not get the drop to your side. Our rule was 99% of the time, the RG6Q drop is supposed to follow your power drop. IF it is a true duplex with 2 addresses? , you should have 2 power drops and 2 meters etc.
What happens when the neighbor dumps his connection?
Something just sounds wrong, but maybe that is just comcast....


BoteMan

join:2002-11-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL
said by sapreaper:

...What happens when the neighbor dumps his connection?

Message received. Good point.

I'll see if we can steer the contractor towards running a drop to my apartment tomorrow when the resked shows up.
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nrobot80

join:2012-12-05
Union City, GA
The problem you run into is when you split a cable signal is you weaken the signal after every split. This in turn effects every service you have especially internet and/or voice which should come off the first split to maximize the upstream and downstream signals.


One_Drop

@comcast.net
reply to sapreaper
said by sapreaper:

I have NEVER seen this...period... Although i never worked for Comcast thank the lord, I worked for another Cable company in my area. Under NO circumstances were we EVER to share a drop on a duplex. (If this is NOT how comcast does it, then i guess you are SoL and must share)
Not understanding why he could not get the drop to your side. Our rule was 99% of the time, the RG6Q drop is supposed to follow your power drop. IF it is a true duplex with 2 addresses? , you should have 2 power drops and 2 meters etc.
What happens when the neighbor dumps his connection?
Something just sounds wrong, but maybe that is just comcast....

I live in an apartment complex. Each building has eight apartments. There is only one power drop and one Comcast cable drop for each building. The power and cable is fed from a common junction box (with separate power meters for each apartment) to each apartment. I don't see why a duplex would require any different treatment.


BoteMan

join:2002-11-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL

1 edit
said by One_Drop :

I live in an apartment complex. Each building has eight apartments. There is only one power drop and one Comcast cable drop for each building. The power and cable is fed from a common junction box (with separate power meters for each apartment) to each apartment. I don't see why a duplex would require any different treatment.

The trunk hardline will have a splitter up on the pole; this would be analogous to the one serving your 8 apartments. Then if the tech splits it again at my neighbor's service entry that's another 3dB drop on my leg (and my neighbor's). I get that.

I just don't know if he can remove an attenuator up on the pole or somehow adjust the signal level to our split drop to undo the effects of the second split? Or just run the drop all the way from the pole to me and eliminate one potential source of trouble, if it is one. And any additional installation cost because of this drop run (I doubt it based on reading similar threads here).

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sapreaper

join:2007-06-01
united state
reply to One_Drop
totally different. An apartment complex (typically a building having 4 or more) gets a hard line run to the building, then attached to the tap-plate (up to eight positions), and mounted in a lock-box. This takes place of the connection/tap-plate up on the pole/messenger. Now any new connections or changes can be done in that box.

sapreaper

join:2007-06-01
united state
reply to BoteMan
said by BoteMan:

said by One_Drop :

I live in an apartment complex. Each building has eight apartments. There is only one power drop and one Comcast cable drop for each building. The power and cable is fed from a common junction box (with separate power meters for each apartment) to each apartment. I don't see why a duplex would require any different treatment.

The trunk hardline will have a splitter up on the pole; this would be analogous to the one serving your 8 apartments. Then if the tech splits it again at my neighbor's service entry that's another 3dB drop on my leg (and my neighbor's). I get that.

I just don't know if he can remove an attenuator up on the pole or somehow adjust the signal level to our split drop to undo the effects of the second split? Or just run the drop all the way from the pole to me and eliminate one potential source of trouble, if it is one.

Unless something changed, tap plates are installed (measured in loss/ohms etc) based on signal and number of buildings it needs to feed. Sometimes you cannot just change to a different plate as that effects the rest of the resistance etc. If this building is 2 addresses, that tap plate has a port and proper signal to connect both halves. Even Comcast under their policy does not allow 2 modems to be connected via the same drop. Again maybe there is lee-way, but even a Comcast authorized contractor states: "If you have two modems, they must have separate connections to the main line tap plate. They can not both exists on the same RG6 coax building drop."

So, if there is room on the plate (if 2 addresses), than that tech needs to run another drop. Possibly even if he follows the first til it gets to the building.

I still do not understand the issue with him running another drop ?? Did he explain?


One_Drop

@comcast.net
reply to BoteMan
said by BoteMan:

said by One_Drop :

I live in an apartment complex. Each building has eight apartments. There is only one power drop and one Comcast cable drop for each building. The power and cable is fed from a common junction box (with separate power meters for each apartment) to each apartment. I don't see why a duplex would require any different treatment.

The trunk hardline will have a splitter up on the pole; this would be analogous to the one serving your 8 apartments. Then if the tech splits it again at my neighbor's service entry that's another 3dB drop on my leg (and my neighbor's). I get that.

I just don't know if he can remove an attenuator up on the pole or somehow adjust the signal level to our split drop to undo the effects of the second split? Or just run the drop all the way from the pole to me and eliminate one potential source of trouble, if it is one.

And the eight way split on the apartment building would mean a proportionally larger db drop for each apartment. What's your point? The tech only has to adjust the level before the split to compensate. I have quite acceptable modem stats despite the eight way split (and a two way split inside my apartment).



sapreaper

join:2007-06-01
united state
said by One_Drop :

said by BoteMan:

said by One_Drop :

I live in an apartment complex. Each building has eight apartments. There is only one power drop and one Comcast cable drop for each building. The power and cable is fed from a common junction box (with separate power meters for each apartment) to each apartment. I don't see why a duplex would require any different treatment.

The trunk hardline will have a splitter up on the pole; this would be analogous to the one serving your 8 apartments. Then if the tech splits it again at my neighbor's service entry that's another 3dB drop on my leg (and my neighbor's). I get that.

I just don't know if he can remove an attenuator up on the pole or somehow adjust the signal level to our split drop to undo the effects of the second split? Or just run the drop all the way from the pole to me and eliminate one potential source of trouble, if it is one.

And the eight way split on the apartment building would mean a proportionally larger db drop for each apartment. What's your point? The tech only has to adjust the level before the split to compensate. I have quite acceptable modem stats despite the eight way split (and a two way split inside my apartment).

You are not getting it. It is split eight ways on a tap plate! Just like any neighborhood is split. You cannot split 8-ways on RG6 and keep your signal. The tech does not adjust anything. Only if something is wrong with overall signal at the tap plate, can the higher tech-2 or similar come out to change something. They could up the amp setting but that effects the whole tap plate at once (every port)


One_Drop

@comcast.net
reply to sapreaper
said by sapreaper:

Even Comcast under their policy does not allow 2 modems to be connected via the same drop. Again maybe there is lee-way, but even a Comcast authorized contractor states: "If you have two modems, they must have separate connections to the main line tap plate. They can not both exists on the same RG6 coax building drop."

That would mean that a business class customer who had both Internet and voice services would need to have two drops, because none of the officially approved "modems" that are allowed to be used for a business class account have FXS (voice) ports. That restricted modem list means that two modems are required if a business class customer is a CDV subscriber. I really don't think that Comcast is going to run a separate drop just for the voice modem.

sapreaper

join:2007-06-01
united state
Maybe due to the low bandwidth that VoiP uses. I used "modems" loosely as in used for internet and speeds above 10-15Mbps etc. I do not deal with VoiP, and wish I would never have to get it myself. Low cost garbage..


not

@comcast.net
Bottom line everyone... the splitting can only happen at the TAP plate. If he splits off somewhere else down the line from there, when your neighbor cancels his/her account, Comcast comes out or remotely cuts off his connection and inturn yours as well.


gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to BoteMan
said by BoteMan:

said by sapreaper:

...What happens when the neighbor dumps his connection?

Message received. Good point.

I'll see if we can steer the contractor towards running a drop to my apartment tomorrow when the resked shows up.

thats why they make orange tags (multiple downstream connections)
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nrobot80

join:2012-12-05
Union City, GA
The bottom line is the tech needs to do his job, contractor or not. No the tech can't turn the signal up at the pole, it's not possible. If there are two power meters from two drops from the pole then there need to be two drops for cable service from the pole, enough said.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to BoteMan
said by BoteMan:

A tech came out to install cable in my half of the duplex apartment where I live. The other half of this duplex got Comcast a few months ago. It is served from a pole about 50 feet from the building and I assume that a new drop was run from the pole to his (closer) apartment eaves, then through his wall.

The tech today looked puzzled about how to run the cable drop to me and indicated that he could just split it at my neighbor's service entry point and then run it another 40 feet along the eaves to my half of the duplex.

I thought each customer drop needed to be a separate cable? If not, what problems can arise from sharing the drop from the pole?

My guess is that I might have half the signal I would otherwise get, but whether or not that would cause trouble I don't know yet. We rescheduled for tomorrow for a number of reasons, so I'd like to be prepared for his return.

Any gotchas to watch out for or ask him about?

Thanks.

could leave you disconnected if the person turns off the service..

they had to run a new line of RG11 after that happened.


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US

1 edit
reply to sapreaper
said by sapreaper:

said by BoteMan:

said by One_Drop :

I live in an apartment complex. Each building has eight apartments. There is only one power drop and one Comcast cable drop for each building. The power and cable is fed from a common junction box (with separate power meters for each apartment) to each apartment. I don't see why a duplex would require any different treatment.

The trunk hardline will have a splitter up on the pole; this would be analogous to the one serving your 8 apartments. Then if the tech splits it again at my neighbor's service entry that's another 3dB drop on my leg (and my neighbor's). I get that.

I just don't know if he can remove an attenuator up on the pole or somehow adjust the signal level to our split drop to undo the effects of the second split? Or just run the drop all the way from the pole to me and eliminate one potential source of trouble, if it is one.

Unless something changed, tap plates are installed (measured in loss/ohms etc) based on signal and number of buildings it needs to feed. Sometimes you cannot just change to a different plate as that effects the rest of the resistance etc. If this building is 2 addresses, that tap plate has a port and proper signal to connect both halves. Even Comcast under their policy does not allow 2 modems to be connected via the same drop. Again maybe there is lee-way, but even a Comcast authorized contractor states: "If you have two modems, they must have separate connections to the main line tap plate. They can not both exists on the same RG6 coax building drop."

So, if there is room on the plate (if 2 addresses), than that tech needs to run another drop. Possibly even if he follows the first til it gets to the building.

I still do not understand the issue with him running another drop ?? Did he explain?

This is a terrible way to install regardless of the circumstances. Even if there were no tap ports, which is possible the drop should have been split at the pole off the neighbors tap port and ran to your power meter etc. Even then should only be temporary. This is most likely a case of a lazy tech.
Edit: fixed some things lol.
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sapreaper

join:2007-06-01
united state
@BobJohnson , what is a terrible way to install? Not sure where your reply was directed


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
I edited my post previous to kinda make more sense out of it. I'm not sure what happened on my phone but I thought I shortened the quote the first time. Anyway, all of your post was correct and I was saying that there is not an excuse for not running the drop.

sapreaper

join:2007-06-01
united state
said by bobjohnson:

I edited my post previous to kinda make more sense out of it. I'm not sure what happened on my phone but I thought I shortened the quote the first time. Anyway, all of your post was correct and I was saying that there is not an excuse for not running the drop.

Ah gotya, no problem at all. Nice to have some support when trying to explain to others


BoteMan

join:2002-11-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL
reply to bobjohnson
said by bobjohnson:

...This is most likely a case of a lazy tech.

Welcome to south Florida!
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gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4
reply to sapreaper
quote:
Even Comcast under their policy does not allow 2 modems to be connected via the same drop
ummm no.. wrong dude....

so when a customer has two modems in a house (phone/hsi) you need to dual drop?!?!?!
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trythisfirst

@comcast.net

1 edit
reply to sapreaper
Do you guys realize that comcast does not do disconnects anymore?? All this arm flailing about the what if the neighbor cancels? Nothing, that is what will not happen. Without seeing it i can't comment on whether it was proper or necessary. Is the drop marked feed, are the units orange tagged with addresses. What i can comment on however is this

said by sapreaper:

I have NEVER seen this...period... Although i never worked for Comcast thank the lord, I worked for another Cable company in my area.

Comcast at times does things a bit differently.

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bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
reply to BoteMan
Lol... I don't think it's isolated to you guys... I know quite a few myself up in these parts... But seriously though, How far do you think it is from the tap to your power meter? I've zip-tied a drop about 100ft down a hard line to get across so I didn't have an aerial trespass in a similar situation...


NetFixer
Bah Humbug
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
reply to gar187er
said by gar187er:

quote:
Even Comcast under their policy does not allow 2 modems to be connected via the same drop
ummm no.. wrong dude....

so when a customer has two modems in a house (phone/hsi) you need to dual drop?!?!?!

Before I ordered my business class HSI, I connected an old modem that I had previously used for residential HSI (I still subscribed to TV service, but not HSI), just to see what the line levels looked like. That old modem was still connected (I simply forgot to remove it) when the business class installer installed and setup the SMCD3G BC gateway. He just put the SMCD3G BC gateway on the 3.5db leg of the splitter that was already installed, and moved the old modem to a 7db leg, and left the TV on a 7db leg. There was no consideration given to my needing another drop just because I had another modem connected to the line.
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bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
reply to gar187er
said by gar187er:



so when a customer has two modems in a house (phone/hsi) you need to dual drop?!?!?!

No, but if you have two people in one house that want their own HSI modems there has to be an individual account and drop for each HSI modem.


NetFixer
Bah Humbug
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by bobjohnson:

said by gar187er:



so when a customer has two modems in a house (phone/hsi) you need to dual drop?!?!?!

No, but if you have two people in one house that want their own HSI modems there has to be an individual account and drop for each HSI modem.

Individual accounts, yes.

Individual drops, no. While that might seem to be an ideal solution, that is not the way that Comcast does it for a single residential address (at least not in my franchise area).

I asked about getting a second drop for my business class service. My residential service is in my name, and the business class service uses a DBA business name, and I wanted them to be totally separate; but I was told that Comcast never puts in two drops to the same residential address.
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A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Depends on market then... In Jacksonville, FL they will only allow the two modem, two account setup with individual drops and tags unless there is not an extra port on the tap, then I don't know what they do.


NetFixer
Bah Humbug
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by bobjohnson:

Depends on market then... In Jacksonville, FL they will only allow the two modem, two account setup with individual drops and tags unless there is not an extra port on the tap, then I don't know what they do.

Of course in the context of this thread, the OP's duplex probably has two distinct addresses, so that would/could make a big difference in how the Comcast franchise in that area would handle a new installation in a previously unconnected duplex residence. With Comcast, each franchise area has a great deal of autonomy in what products are marketed and how certain services are provided.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.