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Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
reply to Grail Knight

Re: Alex Jones Detained By TSA

TSA needs fully dismantled, top down. Reorganize as security, not security guards believing that they're the secret police.


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
reply to Steve

But Steve, 83 different and independent web sites agree that "the TSA was forced to admit that it had kept records on Alex Jones and Matt Drudge".

Oh, wait, they've all just cut'n'pasted the exact same text.


dave
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

It shouldn't matter who the TSA kept records on. The fact that they do should matter.

Sure, but with an admittedly short session of googling, I can't find out whether in fact the TSA ever "admitted" that they kept records on A. Jones. All I can see is A. Jones and his acolytes claiming that they "forced" the TSA to "admit" this. I don't consider A. Jones' web site (and copies of the text therefrom) to be a trustworthy source on the subject of the TSA's dealings with A. Jones.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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said by dave:

...I can't find out whether in fact the TSA ever "admitted" that they kept records on A. Jones.

The TSA refuses to say one way or the other. From The Hill article linked above.
quote:
The lawsuit alleges TSA acknowledged receipt of the records request, but refused to release documents to Liberty Guard because it believed the information was "exempt from disclosure."

In short they extended their middle finger and said FU.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
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So Jones' web site claims that the TSA were 'forced' to 'admit' they kept records 'on' Alex Jones, but now it's just that the TSA refuses to say one way or the other?

This slipperiness is why I distrust Jones' web site. It's hyperbole all the way.



StuartMW
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That maybe true. Since there is no written (or electronic) "proof" (the TSA won't say) one has to use their own judgment based on the history of the TSA etc. Some may say "show me the proof" and because no hard documentation is available will say the claims are bogus. Others will take the opposite view.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5

said by StuartMW:

one has to use their own judgment based on the history of the TSA etc.

That "etc" is a pretty weak way of admitting that others may well use their judgment based on a history of Alex Jones as well.


StuartMW
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Fair enough. That said I hadn't heard of him until today but I have been reading articles about the TSA for many years. From those I've drawn conclusions about how they operate. The claims are consistent IMO. YMMV.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



Steve
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said by StuartMW:

I hadn't heard of him until today

Alex Jones believes, among other things, that the US government was involved in the Oklahoma City bombings and the 9/11 attacks; this may explain why so many have as strident views about him as just about everybody has about the TSA
Expand your moderator at work


Grail Knight
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reply to Mike

Re: Alex Jones Detained By TSA

quote:
TSA needs fully dismantled, top down. Reorganize as security, not security guards believing that they're the secret police.
I find it interesting how you would know what the TSA Organization thinks especially the employees.
--
"Paranoia, the destroyer"


StuartMW
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reply to Steve

said by Steve:

Alex Jones believes, among other things, that the US government was involved in the Oklahoma City bombings and the 9/11 attacks...

He's a "truther"? Oh the ironing. LOL.

I'm sure he and Rosie O'Donnell would have a lot in common. Then again maybe not
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Mike
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reply to Grail Knight

It's my duty as a citizen to know government powers.

I also know TSA has a bit of a PR problem due to illegal detentions and unreasonable targeting.

Are they needed? Yes.
Are they doing it wrong? Completely.
--
"If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce
What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon.



NetFixer
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said by Mike:

It's my duty as a citizen to know government powers.

I also know TSA has a bit of a PR problem due to illegal detentions and unreasonable targeting.

Are they needed? Yes.
Are they doing it wrong? Completely.

Are they doing it wrong?

That might depend on what their real agenda is.

Immediately after the 9/11 attacks, it was pretty clear that the problem was a failure of the various intelligence agencies not talking to each other, combined with a nearly neutered post cold war air defense system. The private security agencies at the boarding points actually did what they were hired to do (at that time the box cutters that the hijackers took aboard as weapons were legally permitted in carry-on baggage as tools).

Now everyone just gripes about the TSA. Is that really coincidental?
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock
reply to StuartMW

Athletes foot SUX!!!!!

One of Jones’ primary concerns regarding the removal of shoes was the fact that he had caught athletes foot from that very process in another airport years previously, meaning that he now carries a spare pair of socks to change into when he boards the aircraft. Jones emphasized that he was not a “clean freak” but that he never encountered such issues before having to take his shoes off at TSA security.


--
When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask him to dribble a football.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

Fair enough. That said I hadn't heard of him until today but I have been reading articles about the TSA for many years. From those I've drawn conclusions about how they operate. The claims are consistent IMO. YMMV.

The objections we raised was that Alex Jones himself is not a particularly trustworthy source. On Alex Jones, or pretty much anything else. And the article from the Hill doesn't really corroborate any of the more sensational allegations.

Does the TSA keep files on Alex Jones specifically? Doubt it, and no evidence that they do has been presented thus far. Refusing a FOIA request is hardly proof of that. I could file all manner of frivolous requests to every 3 or more letter agency in the world for documents on myself. And it wouldn't surprise if some are refused. Their refusal to comply wouldn't constitute proof that they were "keeping files on me".

If airport security asks you to remove your shoes, do so. I don't like it either, but I would take the train or a ship if it bothered me that much. I couldn't help but feel pity for the people in line forced to wait longer as Alex Jones created his self-indulgent little scene at the airport.
--
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Grail Knight
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reply to Mike

Still sounds like your guessing as to what the TSA wants to be.

PR problems affect many companies and government agencies
and citizens themselves.

I still believe the isolated incidents are caused by poor training,
travelers actually creating an issue where none existed, and poorly
written employee guidelines.
--
"Paranoia, the destroyer"



disconnected

@snet.net
reply to Ian

Taking a train or bus will soon involve TSA as well. A pilot program was tried in Tenn last fall. The federal agency is getting a budget to set up roadblock style security checkpoints on highways now. It's coming. Yesterday's tin is today's reality.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to Mike

said by Mike:

Aren't the TSA glorified security guards?

Can we disband these idiots yet, burn it down, and try again with maybe 60% less stupid?

Nope... They have gone WAAAAAYYYY beyond glorified security guards you see in airports.

»www.huffingtonpost.com/christoph···332.html

said by Christopher Elliot :

Turns out the TSA goes to NFL games and political conventions and all kinds of places that have little or nothing to do with air travel. It even has a special division called VIPR -- an unfortunate acronym for Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response team -- that conducts these searches.

Few people know that $105 million of their taxpayer dollars are going to fund 37 VIPR teams in 2012, whose purpose is to "augment" the security of any mode of transportation. They don't realize that these VIPR teams can show up virtually anytime, anywhere and without warning, subjecting you to a search of your vehicle or person.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to Grail Knight

said by Grail Knight:

quote:
TSA needs fully dismantled, top down. Reorganize as security, not security guards believing that they're the secret police.
I find it interesting how you would know what the TSA Organization thinks especially the employees.

Actions speak louder than words.

Apparently you never read any of the articles about how they abuse their powers against those going through airport security.


Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock
reply to ropeguru

said by ropeguru:

said by Mike:

Aren't the TSA glorified security guards?

Can we disband these idiots yet, burn it down, and try again with maybe 60% less stupid?

Nope... They have gone WAAAAAYYYY beyond glorified security guards you see in airports.

To add to that ... The TSA's mission creep is making the US a police state. »www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree···ce-state

Ever since 2010, when the Transportation Security Administration started requiring that travelers in American airports submit to sexually intrusive gropings based on the apparent anti-terrorism principle that "If we can't feel your nipples, they must be a bomb", the agency's craven apologists have shouted down all constitutional or human rights objections with the mantra "If you don't like it, don't fly!"

This callous disregard for travelers' rights merely paraphrases the words of Homeland Security director Janet Napolitano, who shares, with the president, ultimate responsibility for all TSA travesties since 2009. In November 2010, with the groping policy only a few weeks old, Napolitano dismissed complaints by saying "people [who] want to travel by some other means" have that right. (In other words: if you don't like it, don't fly.)

But now TSA is invading travel by other means, too. No surprise, really: as soon as she established groping in airports, Napolitano expressed her desire to expand TSA jurisdiction over all forms of mass transit. In the past year, TSA's snakelike VIPR (Visual Intermodal Prevention and Response) teams have been slithering into more and more bus and train stations – and even running checkpoints on highways – never in response to actual threats, but apparently more in an attempt to live up to the inspirational motto displayed at the TSA's air marshal training center since the agency's inception: "Dominate. Intimidate. Control."

Its gone to far and its time we let the patriot act expire! Welcome to the Police States of America were personal liberties no longer mean anything to the powers that be!
--
When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask him to dribble a football.


Grail Knight
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reply to ropeguru

They are not all of them.
They are individuals here and there causing problems.
Problems that apparently are addressed as well or have you not seen that?

Try not to assume to much.
--
"Paranoia, the destroyer"


Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
kudos:1

A couple of months ago, I had the misfortune to have to fly due to a family emergency. As usual, I expect a certain amount of arrogance and disrespect from the TSA twits. I was not disappointed. I was directed to the full body scanner by a TSA twit that had absolutely no idea how to address a person with a certain amount of respect. It was "Get in this line, now."

After going thru the full body scanner, I found that it is pretty much worthless. As I stepped out, I was asked if I had an artificial knee on my left leg. I replied no, and got groped due to a defective scanner.

The TSA so makes me feel secure about flying, NOT.



Grail Knight
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I fly often as well and see the TSA in action.
Have yet to have had an issue myself with security but I know it happens.

I find it interesting in a bad way that people keep blaming the TSA instead of who is really at fault but that is for a different part of this site.
--
"Paranoia, the destroyer"


Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
kudos:1

Yes, I blame the TSA because their machine is not doing what it is supposed to do and the personnel are arrogant little, uneducated, twits.



Grail Knight
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I blame who ultimately runs the TSA because without their oversight or perhaps with their blessing the TSA would not be running roughshod.
--
"Paranoia, the destroyer"



NetFixer
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said by Grail Knight:

I blame who ultimately runs the TSA because without their oversight or perhaps with their blessing the TSA would not be running roughshod.

OTOH, perhaps the TSA is just taking orders from above to deliberately be theatrical and outrageous in order to distract attention from far worse things that are being done in the name of homeland security.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


Grail Knight
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Anything is possible because governments throughout history have never been pure of heart. Not the government per say but the people who make it happen.
--
"Paranoia, the destroyer"



traveldewd

@64.253.179.x
reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

said by dave:

Alex Jones is the guy who owns the web site that has the article about Alex Jones that you linked to.

Why's it matter? Because Alex Jones's web site might not be unbiased on the matter of Alex Jones.

Perhaps not but Alex Jones wasn't even the point of my post. The point is clearly made in the quoted section.

Here it again.

quote:
Following the national opt out day protest in 2010, the TSA was forced to admit that it had kept records on Alex Jones and Matt Drudge, another prominent TSA critic, but refused to release details even after a FOIA request by former Congressman Bob Barr.

It shouldn't matter who the TSA kept records on. The fact that they do should matter.

I would be upset if they didn't have multiple threat lists with differring levels. After all it's common sense that those deemed threats receive more screening than those who aren't.

The more important question is not are there records but what criteria are used to deem individuals threats.

In the case of Alex Jones, Austin is his hometown airport so I'm sure he's talked about and the screeners decided to mess with him.


signmeuptoo
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reply to StuartMW

I listen to CoastToCoastAM most nights. Most of what is on it is pathetically stupid and politically biased in the opposite direction that I, myself, am facing. Alex Jones comes on regularly and spews out hateful, nutcase, conspiracy theory bullcrap. As he talkes, he pants like a dog spitting out crazy accusations about stuff he knows nothing about, claiming all of it as though it were fact.

Frankly, I'm glad they are paying special attention to him, I could imagine him doing something bad, something harmful to others. I get mad at my government too, and often don't trust the workers in that government, but I don't go around spreading falsehoods and trying to incite violence, the worst I ever do is say I'm angry about something. He is dangerous because he's like an unlocked pistol in a room of young children. Sooner or later, because of him, something bad is going to happen.
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