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shepd

join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
reply to sbrook

Re: Voltage Versus Teksavvy, Round 2 Continued

said by sbrook:

even with a $5000 cap on damages, and "costs", defending a case is still potentially prohibitive. I certainly don't have cash in hand to defend a case. Add to that the worry, sleepless nights, time off work. It all adds up to be an expensive toll on any defendant.

I think the court will find these cases to almost entirely be represented by pro se defendants. As for the extortion letter, I would answer with "I will offer $100 in the interest of not wasting the court's time, on the understanding that I've not done anything but respect the court has better things to do. Since this is the recommended amount of penalty per the Canadian government, I am certain the court will recognize my attempt to deal in good faith with you. The offer stands until you choose to pursue the matter in court."

But that's just me, and if I had to risk $5k on defending myself by myself, I would because I'm crazy like that.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

Offering to settle, no matter how you word it would be an admission in the eyes of the court and if they refused your offer and took you to court, you would most likely be forced to pay something (might be $100, might be more).

You'd be better off saying you did nothing wrong and see you in court....


Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON

said by rednekcowboy:

Offering to settle, no matter how you word it would be an admission in the eyes of the court and if they refused your offer and took you to court, you would most likely be forced to pay something (might be $100, might be more).

You'd be better off saying you did nothing wrong and see you in court....

Right. An idea would be to...
•get a lawyer to write a letter denying the allegations.
•ask them to pay your lawyer's bill, plus any time you took off from work to talk to the lawyer during the workday
•if they don't pay up, go after them in small-claims court

When they get hit with multiple claims for a couple of hundred dollars each, it might wake them up. While you might not get any money from small-claims court, it'll hurt the trolls just defending themselves. War of the courts they want, war of the courts they get.

fazeTO

join:2011-03-22
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to rednekcowboy

EVERY Lawyers worst nightmare is a self-represented defendant. The court has an obligation to "walk" you through the protocol. That would eat up Voltages time and end up costing them more. I asked my friend who is a lawyer about it. It would be like an SNL skit.

Technically the case is sort of already being built up with the argument of how a IP is NOT a person, so you could reference other court affidavits. etc.. no?



giggles

@videotron.ca

said by fazeTO:

EVERY Lawyers worst nightmare is a self-represented defendant. The court has an obligation to "walk" you through the protocol. That would eat up Voltages time and end up costing them more.

heh I saw this happen before when a bud of mine went to court. Judge was telling him what he was going to do, and my bud had no clue what was being said. Judge yelled like no tomorrow. Screaming. Asking why he doesn't know. He layed into the lawyers calling them idiots. Blamed all the lawyers in the room, called my bud every conceivable name possible for the word idiot, went into some sort of 15-minute soliloquy questioning the use of the legal system and lazy lawyers who eat his important and valuable time, then explained what certain terms meant.

Then it happened again with some other legal term. Judge lost it. Rise, repeat. I was just sitting there and almost shat myself with the way the judge screamed and went ballistic. No one in that room even moved or breathed. Everyone was scared.

Now imagine this happening a few hundred times.

It doesn't seem so much as a lawyers worse nightmare, as you said, but rather a judges. After what I witnessed, I can see a judge either forcing voltages lawyers to educate people who self-represent themselves, holding some sort of mass education meeting, or jumping over his desk thingy and killing everyone w/o a lawyer who says, "What does that mean", "I don't understand"?

heh that was my one and only time I was sitting in a court room watching a show. And it freaked me right out.

So any other news on Voltage?

Anything else filed?

Did Voltage finally send the cease and desist letter to TSI so TSI could forward it?

Did they skip town w/o paying TSI?

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

Nothing filed as of yesterday. I doubt there will be a c&d sent out.

Voltage has not skipped.... Yet.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



gruntbuggle

@ustomer-incero.com

Not sending out the C&D certainly sends out a message that they really aren't worried about their movies being shared.

It does feel like Voltage has withdrawn for now but I have no doubt the idiots will try and take another whack at it, perhaps with a BC court under a different name? That seems to be the troll pattern in the States.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
reply to hm

Court cases like these are often long drawn out affairs, with actual court dates far apart from each other. Seeing now news for weeks, or even months is not a sign any side has backed off.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

said by TypeS:

Court cases like these are often long drawn out affairs, with actual court dates far apart from each other. Seeing now news for weeks, or even months is not a sign any side has backed off.

You are correct for the most part, however not sending out the C&D while claiming to the courts that it was an absolute emergency and that it was imperative that Tek's alleged infringers received it immediately, may very well be a sign....


Shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to gruntbuggle

Maybe they will sue everyone here at DSLr for defamation!

Woot!


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by Shrug :

Maybe they will sue everyone here at DSLr for defamation!

Woot!

Lol.. Saw that thing on Prenda huh?

It's kinda funny too... As I sent CIPPIC to fightcopyrighttrolls.com for background info on Voltage in the US.. When it came out that Prenda wanted IPs for every visitor of that site & dtd, I said I didn't think CIPPIC would like that too much, which they RT'd.

I will be quite surprised if Voltage continues this case much further tbh.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Shrug

@videotron.ca

said by resa1983:

said by Shrug :

Maybe they will sue everyone here at DSLr for defamation!

Woot!

Lol.. Saw that thing on Prenda huh?

You betcha.

Been keeping tabs on this one The whole thing is a fricking circus. Monday is going to be SoOoOo gOoOoOoD if they don't show their faces, as they wrote they wouldn't (more or less telling the judge to stick it).


humanfilth

join:2013-02-14
cyber gutter
reply to hm

These copyright maffia firms are so desperate to kick down their clients customers.
Like why the hell do they do the old ancient times way of stomping everyone in their path...

An IP address is not a person and since the firm is abusing the court system by avoiding the police and their investigative branch at all costs. You end up with many innocent victims wondering why they have to spend money to declare their innocence.

The Charter of Rights in Canada states that you are innocent until proved of guilt.

But we always need to point out that accusing someone of guilt and interrogating someone accused of guilt and then slamming their limp body through the court system based on an accusation of guilt is just wrong.
If there is not enough basic evidence on the spot, of guilt, then you walk away. Accusing someone walking their dog of their dog crapping in the yard based on the size of the turd is wrong. Covering the dog poop in bacon grease helps to remove the poop and educates the dog walker.

People have been so brainwashed that they think that the police can just stop you in your travels and interrogate you under some false pretenses of the crime of the day/night.
Did you commit a crime? Where you in the planning stages of committing a crime? If not, then you can not be stopped, searched and interrogated. That is the common basics of law.
It is illegal for those TSA security guards to molest/digital strip you, but the police will ignore those daily crimes, which creates a long string of crimes in the name of derp.

Meanwhile corporations now write the laws in order to allow for their criminal activity, while the peasants do not realize that all laws are to apply equally to all occupants of the country at all times.
That goes for politicians too. Violate the Charter with a bogus law and we really would love to see the politician who created it to go to prison for life, but he claims immunity from being prosecuted and the police/prosecutor and court system refuse to do anything about enforcing the law equally. Rob a bank and go to jail, but a bank executive can rob the customers and get a $10 million bonus as congratulations.

The powers that be hate it when people state the justifiable law to them. But without enough people stating the law, those that then state the law, may be assaulted, bankrupted or killed in the name of 'shut your damn mouth'.

*^*

»torrentfreak.com/copyright-troll···-130308/

.......... In the United States some of the most motivated troll fighters are to be found on two sites, FightCopyrightTrolls and DieTrollDie. Their aims are simple. To keep the public and fellow victims informed and to ensure that through activism, trolls make as little money as possible.

Needless to say, trolls do not like this kind of opposition. It hurts their bottom line. And now, in the middle of what is probably the most bizarre case there has ever been in troll history, one outfit is coming out fighting possibly for its life.

Prenda Law is in the middle of a mess so massive that to adequately describe the case in enough detail one needs to write many thousands of words. Fortunately, for those who want to catch up, the sites mentioned above have been keeping up to date, complimented brilliantly by Techdirt Mike Masnick and Kens excellent summary over at Popehat.

The TL;DR is that there is going to be an unprecedented showdown in a Los Angeles court on Monday that could lead to someone associated with Prenda going to prison.

Based on the evidence presented at the March 11, 2013 hearing, the Court will consider whether sanctions [for Prenda Law] are appropriate, and if so, determine the proper punishment. This may include a monetary fine, incarceration, or other sanctions sufficient to deter future misconduct, Judge Wright explained.

But while the blood of trolls may indeed flow on Monday, in the last few days Prenda have been going on the offensive. .........
Occupy everything


hm

@videotron.ca

said by humanfilth:

But while the blood of trolls may indeed flow on Monday, in the last few days Prenda have been going on the offensive. .........

Monday is going to be a fun read when they don't show up in court like they were told to do. If the judge does nothing.... it will be a slap in the face to the ordinary people of the states. Court orders for them and court orders ignored for others.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Live tweet feed of the Prenda hearing thats starts in about 50 minutes
»fightcopyrighttrolls.com/2013/03···ve-feed/



hm

@videotron.ca

said by andyb:

Live tweet feed of the Prenda hearing thats starts in about 50 minutes
»fightcopyrighttrolls.com/2013/03···ve-feed/

TY.
And Prenda filed in court that it wants your IP address if you go to that domain to read anything. Even funnier.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to hm

Prenda updates:

Alan Mooney denies being CEO, etc of AF Holdings or any other company Prenda represents:
»www.techdirt.com/articles/201303···es.shtml

Filed today:
Verizon stating Gibbs didn't inform them that the subpoenas had been null & voided, which was why the information was sent to Prenda. This matters, cuz Gibbs put in an affidavit under penalty of perjury that he served the order voiding the prior subpoena on Verizon, which he apparently didn't.
short:
»ia701508.us.archive.org/28/items···77.0.pdf
long:
»ia701508.us.archive.org/28/items···78.0.pdf

Tweets from recess during hearing - hearing started 1:30pm PDT (4:30pm EDT), recessed after 1 1/2 hrs, and went back in minutes later:

»twitter.com/goodreverend
quote:
In recess. Just. Wow.

Steele and friends didn't show, but they're available by phone. Alan Cooper -- the real one -- is here. #Prendalaw

Wright came in like a tornado. Things do not look good for Prenda. At all. #Prendalaw

Judge Wright just take up the Janice to call Steele and company. Pity they aren't here to know the prior testimony. Poor move. #Prendalaw

Pietz is handling this masterfully. Gibbs lawyers tried to discredit Verizon declaration. Gibbs introduces Verizon lawyer. #Prendalaw

Gibbs lawyers awfully quiet. Wright blasted the Hensmeier deposition. Said he doesn't know anything about his own firm. #Prendalaw

I have lots of updates from #prenda. But going back in now. Needed to refill popcorn. Oh god the popcorn is endless.
Guess we'll hear more when its done.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

shepd

join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
reply to rednekcowboy

said by rednekcowboy:

Offering to settle, no matter how you word it would be an admission in the eyes of the court and if they refused your offer and took you to court, you would most likely be forced to pay something (might be $100, might be more).

You'd be better off saying you did nothing wrong and see you in court....

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Courts generally respect a defendant that doesn't want to waste their time by going to court when they could have settled and in as much, want to encourage them to do that by *not* using offers of settlement as evidence against the defendant (otherwise lawyers would never even offer to settle, as it would be a waste of their time, since nobody would as they'd then get sued anyways). Be sure you offer the settlement "without prejudice".

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_···tiations

"The term 'without prejudice' is used in the course of negotiations to settle a lawsuit. It indicates that a particular conversation or letter cannot be tendered as evidence in court. It can be considered a form of privilege. This usage flows from the primary meaning: concessions and representations made for purpose of settlement are simply being mooted for that purpose, and are not meant to actually concede those points in litigation."

Of course, this is why I say *I* would represent myself. Unfortunately, most people stare into a court room like it's some kind of mysterious black box and make the wrong choices.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

Gotta watch "without prejudice" because it does mean that the matter is not considered over. For example, if you offer to settle without prejudice, it only means that the offer to settle cannot be brought up as evidence in court, but it must contain a good faith offer of settlement.

What is necessary in this case is not only "without prejudice" but also terms to indicate that the offer of settlement is not an admission of guilt but a means to limit your costs in defending yourself.



andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to resa1983

Small update from Ars Tech »arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013···lawyers/


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

1 edit
reply to hm

Full update from Ars:
»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013···to-hide/

Popehat will be posting on his own site, and cross-posting on techdirt, very soon.

EDIT: 8pm PDT - 11 EDT

The best writeup:
»www.popehat.com/2013/03/11/brett···he-star/

Way better than Ars'
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to hm

Canipre Admits It's Behind Voltage-TekSavvy File Sharing Lawsuits With Speculative Invoicing Scheme

»www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6805/125/

Really should read this.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

said by resa1983:

Canipre Admits It's Behind Voltage-TekSavvy File Sharing Lawsuits With Speculative Invoicing Scheme

»www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6805/125/

Really should read this.

Did Canipre just seriously weaken Voltage's case? Am I reading that right?

cog_biz_user
i ruin threads apparently

join:2011-04-19
Hamilton, ON
reply to hm

Weve penetrated a number of underground groups and invite-only FTPs, Logan says. Thats typically where we see a lot of the first-version uploads transacting. While Canipres film-noir website paints the company as the scourge of pirates, the truth is murkier. Logan says adversarial relationships with pirate site operators are generally counterproductive; working amicably to get illegal content removed produces better results. Canipre could seek to shut down illegal sites, but doesnt. Its best to know where your enemies are and what theyre doing, he says. The intelligence value far exceeds the enforcement value.

If Canipre has access to "first version uploads", then they should be shutting it down at the source (the rippers and uploaders), instead of suing all the little guys at the bottom (the downloaders). What a bunch of dicks.
--
Myth: It's only fair to pay for quality first-run movies.
Fact: Most movies shown on cable get two stars or less
and are repeated ad nauseum.


mazhurg
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Brighton, ON
Reviews:
·MTS

said by cog_biz_user:

e]
If Canipre has access to "first version uploads", then they should be shutting it down at the source (the rippers and uploaders), instead of suing all the little guys at the bottom (the downloaders). What a bunch of dicks.

But but, how would they make extra money from the rich subscribers stealing all their B movies and content?

They are not dicks, just savvy trollers.


Shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

Canipre Admits It's Behind Voltage-TekSavvy File Sharing Lawsuits With Speculative Invoicing Scheme

»www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6805/125/

Really should read this.

Now we get to see if the courts (ie Canada) will allow this to go on. If it does, I'm quitting the chemistry field to troll and sue people on p2p-networks. More money. Easier life w/o the need to think.


eu_bill

@noisetor.net
reply to hm

No C&D letter means that trolling dickwads are not interested in stopping so called "piracy". They are interested purely in extortion. If courts are going to allow it it is going to be a proof that democracy is BS and the only law is the law of money and corporations.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

Makes me wonder if someone like the Consumers Union could possibly start a class action for this against all of these clowns for all the stress, financial worries, and the extortion racket they gave people in both Quebec and Ontario.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

Another interesting copyright troll case is also going on in Canada. Last week Geist wrote of how the National Post wants to be paid if you copy a singe sentence from them (which goes against what the new copyright states about fair use).

Now the National Post is going after the Fourniers (their saga is well documented by Geist and other sites) for copying 11 words from their news site.

Knopf on it:
»www.excesscopyright.blogspot.ca/···nal.html

All this is contrary to what the new copyright laws states about fair dealing.

So this will also be a big one to watch out for. But I expect nothing to come of this till the end of the year, or even next year.

So in effect, if someone on this forum were to paste a paragraph on an interesting news item from the National post, they can/may/will go after both this site and the person (or try to) who quotes them, as they are doing with the Fourniers.


shepd

join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
reply to hm

Hopefully google news dumps the National Post, it's not uncommon for a headline to be 11 words long, after all.