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Bones13

@optonline.net

[Internet] [OOL] Problem with xbox live for about 4 months

Hi, to starts things off i'd like to post my chat with the oh so corporative OOL rep. Karl: Hi, my name is Karl. How may I help you?
Jay Waldner: Hi Karl
Jay Waldner: I need some help here
Jay Waldner: So for about 3 months here, i have been having issues with xbox live over optimum internet
Jay Waldner: I have done every possible tpye of trouble shooting
Jay Waldner: What im asking is if you guys would be able to open the ports needed for xbox live from your end?
Jay Waldner: Or in my modem
Karl: I understand the issue and sincerely apologize for any inconvenience with your Xbox. I will be happy to assist you.
Karl: We have thousands that use Xbox on our network, never once have I had to open ports.
Karl: The issue has to be with your router
Jay Waldner: Can't be
Jay Waldner: I've bypassed it
Jay Waldner: And plugged direct into modem
Jay Waldner: You can look on my service records, i have had around 5 techs come out, new lines, new splits, and a brand new modem
Karl: Modem then needs to be reset as the modem currently sees the Netgear
Karl: I see slow speed issues
Jay Waldner: What do you mean?
Karl: You asked me to look at your records
Jay Waldner: Oh
Jay Waldner: Ya
Jay Waldner: It all originated because of issues over xbox
Jay Waldner: But everything works crystal clear, other than xbox live
Karl: It's your router
Karl: Or the Xbox
Jay Waldner: Heres the thing
Karl: I see the netgear currently connected
Jay Waldner: I asked two of my friends to stop by a few days ago
Jay Waldner: We tested their xboxs
Karl: Your router has ports that may need to be openned
Jay Waldner: And it had the same problem
Karl: Your router
Karl: Jay, the number you need to call to reach Netgear is 1-888-638-4327. Once you call, they will be able to further assist you with this issue.
Jay Waldner: That dosne't make sense though
Jay Waldner: Why would it be the router if i was direct plugged into the modem?
Karl: Because you did not reset the modem when you connected the XBOX direct to it
Karl: The modem has a current 3 + day uptime indicating that the modem was not reset today
Karl: If you simply move the Ethernet to the XBOX , WITHOUT resetting the modem, it still will not work
Jay Waldner: I understand that
Karl: Try moving the Ethernet to the XBOX, unplug the modem for 30 seconds, plug back in the modem and start up the XBOX and you should not have an issues
Jay Waldner: There is an order in which you need to power them
Karl: Power down the modem.
Karl: With the modem powered down, move the Ethernet over to the XBOX( do this with the XBOX powered down as well )
Jay Waldner: I've power cycled it all before, im not having a problem connecting
Jay Waldner: Its once im connected
Karl: After moving the Ethernet over, power up the modem , turn on the XBOX
Jay Waldner: Everything i do is delayed
Jay Waldner: As if it had a high ping issue
Karl: I am not seeing anything at issue on the modem at this time
Jay Waldner: I know
Jay Waldner: I have a ping of 8
Jay Waldner: Speed test is saying 58 down
Jay Waldner: 8 up
Jay Waldner: Thats all great
Karl: Great
Jay Waldner: But its all only on xbox live
Karl: Exactly where you need to be
Jay Waldner: Which is why im suggesting something isnt opened
Karl: I advised what you need to do next.
Karl: Is there anything else that I can assist you with today, Jay?
Jay Waldner: Karl, i've power cycled it before tons on times...That isn't my problem
Jay Waldner: of*
Jay Waldner: There is something else causing a problem
Karl: Then I would contact Xbox as there are no open issues in regards as to XBOX on our network
Karl: Jay, the number you need to call to reach Microsoft is 1-800-936-5700. Once you call, they will be able to further assist you with this issue.
Jay Waldner: I was actually talking with them today
Jay Waldner: We tried everything
Jay Waldner: And they advised me to either call you guys
Jay Waldner: Or try another isp
Karl: You did not reset the modem today
Karl: So try that as well
Karl: Is there anything else that I can assist you with today, Jay?
Jay Waldner: There is nothing else you guys can possibly do from your end?
Karl: Nothing here. You said you tried everything today but clearly the modem has not been reset today. That would be everything IF you reset the modem.
Jay Waldner: I understand what your saying, but its been a 3 month issues. Over those 3 months, i have done that tons and tons of times, which makes me think this 1 time at this 1 time of day won't fix it. Im sorry if i was rude before but this problem has been causing me numerous amounts of stress, i really want it gone :'(
Karl: I do not see a thing at issue here. You can replace the modem if you want as that "MAY" potentially be doing something but that would be the first time I've ever seen that. To view all the nearest walk in center locations please click on this link. »optimum.com/support/optimum_stores.jsp
Jay Waldner: The last tech i had out here did that for me (Which was about 4-5 days ago). Is it possible to put my xbox outside the modems firewall?
Karl: There is no firewall on the modem. Jay. You are not the first person that has used an XBOX on our network, me included. There has never been a port or a firewall ever that has affected any XBOX user that we had anything to do with .
Karl: If you are not going to take my suggestion to reset the modem and connect DIRECT to the modem again, there is nothing else I can do for you. Is there anything else that I can assist you with today, Jay?
Karl: Are you there, Jay?
Karl: Hello, are you still there? Without a response in the next few minutes this session may end.
Jay Waldner: I will take you suggestion but i can't at the moment due to others using the internet. If it is nothing from your network, and not the xbox itself, i out of ideas of what's causeing all these problems. I had every piece of line in and around my house replaced and the problem is still there. Might i add that when talking over xbox pary others voices will but out periodically.
Jay Waldner: your*
Jay Waldner: im*
Karl: Ok
Karl: Good luck with that then Jay
Karl: If nothing else today, thank you for choosing Optimum's Technical Support. Please be aware that we are available 24 hrs a day, seven days a week. Have a great evening, Jay.
Karl has disconnected.

So, for the past 4 months i have been having this odd issue over xbox live. The two main problems that are constantly accruing are delay while in games (I'll shoot but it wont show my shots aren't even registering) and over party chat and game chat, players mics will cut words out while they are talking. I have done everything i can possibly think of with troubleshooting my problem. My current modem (5 days old now after replacing it) is an Arris Tm822g Doc 3.0 and my rotuer is a Netgear WNDR3700v3. I have rewired my whole house, making my modems coax line being split total of 1 times. Within the modem, the power levels are between 0.28 and +1 dbmv downstream with 39 SNR. Upstream is 47 dbmv. Anyone you guys need me to post i will, just ask. Also, i have tried two other friends xbox's on our network (Direct connected to modem and router) with nothing being any better. Thank you all and i will be sure to read all posts


frdrizzt

join:2008-05-03
Ronkonkoma, NY
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Is your Xbox in the same room as the modem or do you have long wires run? You can try a different wire to the modem in case it is related (especially since you said only xbox has issues). You should also test for packet loss on the connection, especially to the IP address/server name you are connected to while for XBL.

It has nothing to do with a port. The port is not blocked, and if it was you wouldn't connect at all, not only see QOS issues.



Bones13

@optonline.net

I happen to be in the same room as my modem, but i have about a 25 foot long wire that runs over to my xbox. I've moved my xbox up close to my modem and tested playing with a normal, short wire and had the same result. As for doing pack loss, i had a rep out around 5 days ago who tested all my lines for loss with his hand held machine. Im not sure if it is the same but, if not, can you explain the steps for testing the IP you talked about in your reply?


frdrizzt

join:2008-05-03
Ronkonkoma, NY
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

If your router allows you to see a list of active connections, you can shut everything down for a minute or two, connect to XBL, then try to ping the IP address that is newly listed. There are multiple IP addresses, I'm sure, but testing one that is giving you problems may help confirm or eliminate that as a cause.

Finding the IP is the hard part as the router may not show that. You can google your router model number & active connection ip to see if you can get instructions on exactly where it may be listed. If you get the IP, open a command prompt and type:

ping [ip address found] -t

After a few minutes, control c will stop the ping and give you stats on packet loss.



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Bones13

CV does not block ports that are required for xbox to work. If you connected your xbox directly to your modem, bypassing a router, every needed port is open.
Block/filtered/closed ports would not cause random lag spikes or drops in voice chat.

It sounds like either games' servers are shit or people you talk to over xbox have shit connections...
Or you have a bad controller which does not register your every input.
--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]


gambitNJ

join:2012-11-15
Boonton, NJ
reply to Bones13

The Rep told you clear as day they STILL saw Your 3rd Party Router, Netgear, still connected to the Modem... If you were telling the truth either you never rebooted your modem, or the modem was still holding onto the Netgear settings which is highly unlikely if you did a hard modem reset after plugging directly to the modem.. More than likely you still had Netgear connected and weren't telling the Truth.. I've worked for TWC and have seen thus happen numerous times after countless times getting ppl to actually remove their routers and hard booting the modem afterwards from the cable companies end...



Bones13

@optonline.net
reply to frdrizzt

Ok, i have my xbox as a reserved IP so it shouldn't be hard to find. Tomorrow, ill ping my xbox's IP and post the results of here.



Bones13

@lightpath.net
reply to gambitNJ

I never unplugged my modem while over the chat with him. First off, it would have disconnected me from the chat. Second off, i have powercycled the modem so many times now i cant even keep track. I was saying that i didn't think that doing it again this one times was going to change anything, so i asked him if we could skip the step as if it didn't change anything. He was too stubborn to listen to anything i told him. On the note of the controller, i have a few different ones and tried them all. If i've tried multiple xbox's connected to my modem directly via ethernet cord, and still had problems, i don't understand what else i can do from my side of it. Like i said, the modem is brand new after replacing a total of 3. I also had every line replaced going up to the telephone pole at the end of my house. My modem also had it's own separate coax cable which goes through 1 splitter which also had been replaced. When the Tech came, he tested everything and said my connection was great and flying. I completely agree with him because it does for just about everything other then xbox live....


cablewizzard

join:2009-06-14
Hicksville, NY
kudos:1

XBOX-Live is an over-the-top Internet service that no ISP, including OOL, will or can support beyond ensuring that your core connectivity works (packet loss, no service, etc.).

What you appear to be expecting of OOL is a support level akin to asking your new car dealer to intervene on your behalf (with whom?) over highway traffic congestion, when all he can reasonably be expected to be responsible for, is to make sure the lot's gate is open when you drive off.

Yes, that crazy.

Microsoft should have all the tools and infrastructure at their disposal to run 'big-data' performance analysis on players' network performance - and be able to tell whether it's just you or your entire ISP having trouble, or whether the numerous CDN/gaming servers they are running are in good health and reachable with low latency from your location. (Netflix indeed knows such key performance indicators ; all you get to see of them are their monthly "ISP scorecard" performance reports).

If MS choses not to make such KPI data part of their own trouble-shooting, network management and support processes, they don't really understand their role as an Internet over-the-top service provider.

OOL for their part, most certainly has the tools and support infrastructures in place to be able to tell that your cable modem is operating properly, and the road's wide open. They will not, and should not care where it takes you: that's your and Microsoft's problem.

PS: My PlayStation Network connection is working fine, even though the CDN Sony uses to distribute content (game updates, PSN Store purchases) is really crappy, and I never get more than 2-3 Mbps for the updates. Again, totally not OOL's fault.



Bones13

@optonline.net

Thanks for the reply

Right now im at a lose of what to ask the xbox reps, or any reps in general about what i can do to fix my problem.

What im looking for is any type of specific things i can ask them to figure of my problem, because at this point i almost feel like i've asked everything /

Any type of help would be great, and again, im willing to do anything in takes to get this problem gone with....


max pl

join:2009-03-22
Hyde Park, NY
reply to Bones13

1. Go to BestBuy and buy a router and compare the performance to current router. If the problem persists, return the new router.

2.Do a system reset on the Xbox and reset the old router to new as well.

3.Enable UPnP and all other Xbox ports via the new/old router.

4. Try a new ethernet cord if your using a wired connection.

If none of that helps, report back



Bones13

@optonline.net

Ok, lets see...

1. At the moment, i have a Netgear WNDR3700v3 which was a replacement an older netgear router when i began to have the problems. Even after replacing the older netgear router, the problem was still very much there and didn't get better.

2. I've reset my xbox a few times when on the phone with xbox reps. No change.

3. My first thought was it might of been the cord i was playing on, so i replaced it with long, and short cords and even tried wifi. Once again, still there.

4. As for UpnP and ports, UPnP is currently on but i don't have port forwarding or triggering all forwarded at the moment. I have my xbox DMZed which should do everything port forwarding would. I've tried port forwarding in the past though and it didn't really fix my problem.

5. At this point i've completely taken the router out of the equation, and just directly plugged my xbox into my modem so i guess we can take out next steps from there. Even with it having a direct modem connection, the problem still seems to say around : /



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Bones13

Do you have this problem in all games or only in some specific ones?
Do you talk only with a few of your friends or do you experience this problem with anybody you talk to?
Have you tried talking your console to your friends or somewhere else where you can connect it online and see if you still experience these problems?
Are you experiencing this problem 24/7 or only during peak usage time?
When your friends used their consoles, did they somehow login into their xbox account or did you use your account?

And be truthful. Making your problem sound worse than it is can mislead in troubleshooting where the issue is.

--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]


max pl

join:2009-03-22
Hyde Park, NY
reply to Bones13

and just to be clear, are you using all wired components?
wired xbox and wired mic?

possible interference may be the cause if wireless is used.

i definitely had mic cutouts using the microsoft wireless headset back when i played.



Bones13

@optonline.net

1 recommendation

reply to MxxCon

1. Yes, i really only play two games which are Call of Duty and Nhl 13. Nhl 13 is on the EA servers and Call of Duty is over xbox servers. I seem the experience more so lag over the Ea then the xbox servers, but there is still enough over xbox servers me make my experience not very enjoyable.

2. Anybody, i've tried party chat or game chats depending on the game.

3.No, i've never brought my console to their house within the period of my problem happening. It's been to their houses and my grandparents before i started having problems and worked fine.

4.This is the sort of tricky part, i would say about 90% of the time yes, i experience problems, but out of the blue i sometimes get a fairly problem less experience. It's not to the point where its running clear again, but i'd say its on the scale of more playable. As for when this happens, i can't really say it happens at certain times in particular. More of an almost random type thing.

5.When the two of them came, the both sighed into their profiles. While on the topic of profiles, one of the xbox reps had me do a few things with my profile. 1 being going onto it from my computer and updating all my information. He said that an xbox profile is like a key, if part of the key is broken, it you're gonna have problems opening the door. I've also deleted my profile and re-downloaded it a few times.

6.I use turtle beach x12s, so they are wired into my xbox via USB and the Red and White component cables into the back of my T.V. Not quite sure it's a mic issue because when i do get that random 10# spur of somewhat better connection, all voice/chat problems go 100% away but the delayed gameplay still stays.


max pl

join:2009-03-22
Hyde Park, NY
reply to Bones13

okay, so my suggestion would be to definitely try out another headset just to completely eliminate that as the issue.

and is your NAT on the xbox open, moderate, or closed?

this definitely doesnt seem like an xbox live or isp issue, but isolated to something within your setup.


jcondon

join:2000-05-27
Fishkill, NY

I play COD BO2 a decent amount online and know a bunch of other people who do. We all see moderate or open and it changes session to session. In general I don't have lag issues. But they certainly do come up from time to time. I am using the Actiontech MI424 rev F that Verizon FIOS provided. Below is the ports I have forward. Some are for live specifically and some COD sorry I didn't comment which are which since the OP needs both it doesn't matter. I think also port 53 (DNS) should be forwarded but I don't have that setup since my previous router was set to do OpenDNS DNS Crypt and all my DNS traffic was going to them regardless.

Anyway.

XBox360
192.168.15.4
Destination Ports 3478
TCP Any -> 3478
UDP Any -> 3478 All Broadband Devices Active

XBox360
192.168.15.4
Destination Ports 4379-4380
TCP Any -> 4379-4380
UDP Any -> 4379-4380 All Broadband Devices Active

XBox360
192.168.15.4
Destination Ports 27000-27050
TCP Any -> 27000-27050
UDP Any -> 27000-27050 All Broadband Devices Active

XBox360
192.168.15.4
Destination Ports 88
UDP Any -> 88 All Broadband Devices Active



Bones13

@optonline.net
reply to max pl

That sounds good, rather have it be that than something from either of the two. For NAT, it's always been open for me. I'll see if i can try another headset sometime over the weekend. How about the in game delay issues?



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
reply to jcondon

You don't need to forward port 53. Your devices make OUTGOING connections TO port 53. Virtually all consumer routers do not restrict outgoing connections.
--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Bones13

What xbox rep said about your profile "broken key" is pretty bs. If some of that info is incomplete, it will either work just fine because that info is optional or it won't work at all because that info is mandatory.

It's possible that if you have a wrong country or state that maybe xbox live connects you to less optimal servers. But beyond that I don't know enough about xbox live's service to know if there's something behind the scenes that could affect how your account connects.

Consider signing up for »www.testmyisp.com/ If you are selected, they will send you a free router does pretty extensive network testing and monitoring and at any time you can see the results. Among those tests are network jitter and packetloss. If there are problems if your connection, this router will tell you.

Also consider trying some of the tools at »measurementlab.net/measurement-lab-tools
--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]


jcondon

join:2000-05-27
Fishkill, NY
reply to MxxCon

said by MxxCon:

You don't need to forward port 53. Your devices make OUTGOING connections TO port 53. Virtually all consumer routers do not restrict outgoing connections.

I think they want to be able to directly connect to their DNS server. I was forcing everything to OpenDNS for like a year and had no real issues. Now my XBox360 can make DNS requests to whatever DNS server MS wants. Port 80 would also be open on most networks. Unless some sort of proxy filter was in place.

»support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live···box-live

»portforward.com/english/routers/···s_II.htm

Anyway this doesn't sound like the OPs issue anyway.


Bones13

@optonline.net
reply to MxxCon

Ok im really pissed off now.... I had friends over and we decided we where gonna goof around on chatroullete. This is that i get when we try and use it.



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY

I don't know what you got, but if it's a penis, I'm not surprised.
--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
reply to jcondon

said by jcondon:

I think they want to be able to directly connect to their DNS server. I was forcing everything to OpenDNS for like a year and had no real issues. Now my XBox360 can make DNS requests to whatever DNS server MS wants. Port 80 would also be open on most networks. Unless some sort of proxy filter was in place.

»support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live···box-live

wow...I'm surprised that Microsoft is giving out such super wrong instructions. Why the hell would they want you to allow INCOMING connections to your xbox on DNS and HTTP ports?! xbox does not run DNS or HTTP servers! You being able to talk to THEIR SERVICES does not require you allowing INCOMING connections to these ports. Whoever wrote those instructions does not understand the very basics of networking! Wow.

--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]


Anorexorcist
Premium
join:2005-08-21
Stamford, CT

am I missing something...but where does MS specifically state these "super wrong instructions"?



Bones13

@optonline.net
reply to MxxCon

Oh, i guess it never posted, but here is what i got.

2013-01-11 23:27:54 - Connection with CR server has failed. Reconnecting. If this problem persists, make sure your setup allows connection to TCP ports 81 and 80.

This message came up about 5 times and we never had been let on...


max pl

join:2009-03-22
Hyde Park, NY
reply to Bones13

are your ports even forwarded properly?

do you know how to do it?


jcondon

join:2000-05-27
Fishkill, NY
reply to Bones13

Port 81 for XBox Live? NHL2013 or COD?

I have never opened up 81 for Live or COD.


cablewizzard

join:2009-06-14
Hicksville, NY
kudos:1
reply to jcondon

said by jcondon:

»support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live···box-live

Anyway this doesn't sound like the OPs issue anyway.

The page is imprecise in the sense that it doesn't explicitly state that traffic to these ports must be working for OUTBOUND connections to the Internet, and NOT inbound forwarded ports - the fact that the page mentions router port forwarding makes this even worse, so yes: no kudos to Microsoft for this one, the page sucks.

XBL wouldn't work in probably 98% of all cases if XBOX-Live truly required direct INBOUND access to ports 53 and 80 to the XBOX itself. Not a network administrator (the one at school/work they mention on the page in such scholarly, pass-the-blame manner) in the world is going to make that happen, the majority of all end-user devices in the world are behind NAT, or even behind double-NAT (that's a particular troublesome scenario for XBOX).

The OP has stated multiple times that he has bypassed his router by hooking up his XBOX directly to the cable modem - so none of the router-centric discussions here are relevant, and all speculation about them should stop.

OP: you'll need more information, and nothing is easy from this point forward: the only way is to sniff the traffic between your XBOX and the rest of the network. Hook up a legacy ethernet hub (hard to find, even borrow these days) between your XBOX and the rest of the network (home router, or if bypassed, the cable modem), and put a PC/laptop with Wireshark on one of the other ports.
Record traffic. Analyze where the majority of the traffic is going (XBL gaming server? PS3 traffic is very much peer-to-peer) , and whether that traffic dies (becomes one-way, with your XBOX sending, but not getting anything back, or only getting traffic back with delays) when you experience your latency issues.

Post the XBL gaming server IPs here, if you will, so other people can take a look how much latency or reachability issues exist with them.
Expand your moderator at work