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SadPanda

@frontiernet.net

[FiOS] Frontier FiOS customers falling further and further behin

In June of 2010 Verizon traded the FiOS customers in several states over to Frontier. 35/35 was the top tier speed.
In November of 2010 Verizon started offering 150/35 service on their network. There was also a 50/20 speed. Frontier still topped out at 35/35.
In June of 2012 Verizon started offering 300/75 service, along with 150/75, 75/35, and 50/25. Frontier still topped out at 35/35.
In January 2013 it was announced that Verizon would start offering 1GB FiOS service. Frontier? You guessed it, still tops out at 35/35.

In the short 2 1/2 years since we were Verizon customers, they have had an almost 10x speed upgrade, soon to be 30x, and we are still at the same speed we had.

When is Frontier going to give us more competitive FiOS speeds?

At the very least can they trade us back to Verizon for more worthless copper in other states?



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

Re: [FiOS] Frontier FiOS customers falling further and further b

said by SadPanda :

When is Frontier going to give us more competitive FiOS speeds?

Most likely never.

At the very least can they trade us back to Verizon for more worthless copper in other states?

Verizon doesn't want FiOS in the states that they traded for money (e.g. sold) to Frontier; in fact, they FORCED Frontier to take these FiOS states as part for the trade (er, sale) of the other copper states.

It is kind of laughable -- I can get way better download speeds on my iPhone now with LTE (on AT&T) in the center of town.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to SadPanda

Where is this announcement for Gbps?.

Sounds like all of Frontier may be using BPON equipment. They can start upgrading one day to GPON and beyond when they feel its necessary, and for all intensive purposes, its not.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

said by ITALIAN926:

Where is this announcement for Gbps?

»www.techworld.com.au/article/445···it_fios/

Meanwhile, the company has a platform in place to increase the speed of FiOS to 1 Gbps to homes, McAdam said. The company has more than 5 million FiOS customers now. A version of the service with 300M bps speed came out last year. Not to leave out enterprises, McAdam said Verizon would offer 100G bps speeds, which already connect most major U.S. cities, in its metro Ethernet networks to boost the speed companies can get.


--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬

Chawk12
Premium
join:2011-12-26
Everett, WA
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
reply to ITALIAN926

Frontier uses GPON in some offices. They plan to upgrade the remaining ones this year but I don't think faster speeds will be the result.

My understanding is they will not renew their contract with Verizon but go with AT&T U-Verse instead. U-Verse's video is IP based so they'll use the extra band-width for that.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

said by Chawk12:

My understanding is they will not renew their contract with Verizon but go with AT&T U-Verse instead. U-Verse's video is IP based so they'll use the extra band-width for that.

Wouldn't that require completely different set-top boxes??
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬

Chawk12
Premium
join:2011-12-26
Everett, WA

Yes and new ONTs in many cases.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

said by Chawk12:

Yes and new ONTs in many cases.

Huh. Seems unlikely to me then... but what do I know?
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to darcilicious

quote:
the company has a platform in place to increase the speed of FiOS to 1 Gbps to homes, McAdam said.
All that means is they have the network in place to offer Gbps, which is true being 100% fiber. The network can support Tbps, it doesnt mean youre gonna see it. Id be shocked if they upgrade beyond GPON this year.

quote:
My MISunderstanding is they will not renew their contract with Verizon but go with AT&T U-Verse instead.
Uverse is a completely different architecture, they will not replace their current FTTP with FTTN. They may replicate Uverse in other areas, but they surely wont scrap FTTP for FTTN.

wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000

All that chawk has posted is pretty much accurate. Plans ARE in place to replace BPON equipment with GPON equipment.

Yes, that does involve a massive undertaking of replacing every BPON ONT.
I will go so far as to say that the manufacturer is Calix and that company has even designed their ONT to fit into existing Tellabs ONT closures.

Frontier has a number of areas that are already GPON served. The largest office in Oregon - Beaverton, has had both GPON and BPON equipment for years.

"Italian926's" misunderstanding is that U-verse video product is dependent on an FTTN DSL architecture. U-verse can and already does run over FTTP.

Frontier will be terminating their agreement to recieve the linear video product from Verizon soon. Don't ask me when because at one point it was a July 2012 deadline until it was extended.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

quote:
U-verse can and already does run over FTTP.
That statement makes NO SENSE whatsoever.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24

He's talking about U-Verse Lightspeed, which is a Fiber to the Home flavor of U-Verse which is closer to FiOS than DSL for delivery.


wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000
reply to ITALIAN926

Not quite sure what makes no sense to you.

AT&T has fiber to the home (fttp) in some areas. Their u-verse iptv video product is deployed over this network.

Frontier is looking to deploy some variation of u-verse over their fttp and conceivably the DSL network as well.

Not quite sure what makes no sense to you.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

Wow, Uverse uses FTTP? Didnt know that. Exactly what percentage of Uverse subscribers are FTTP? .01% ? Who has more FTTP customers, Comcast, AT&T or Google?

and btw, if Frontier does adopt GPON or better widespread, not all ONT's get replaced, that would not be economical at all. They would install them on new and upgrading customers.



wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

said by ITALIAN926:

Wow, Uverse uses FTTP? Didnt know that. Exactly what percentage of Uverse subscribers are FTTP? .01% ? Who has more FTTP customers, Comcast, AT&T or Google?

Based on what I know of AT&T's network, Frontier has more FTTP subscribers than AT&T's U-Verse. ("FTTP subscriber" means someone served by fiber to their house, which AT&T does for greenfield U-Verse deployments. There is an ONT at those houses that does exactly what ours do: outputs a copper service.)

I suspect that the July 2012 deadline for linear video was a "deadline" for some sort of strategic partnership to get someone else to provide video service to Frontier's customers, thus not breaking all of those franchise agreements they didn't get out of. Since virtually every "cancel by" date has passed for Frontier in Washington state, they're stuck with the franchises. Since no one, including AT&T, wanted to do a video-only service on someone else's network, my theory is that linear video will remain as-is until management either figures out how to get out of the franchise agreements entirely (possible, but not likely, given how revenue-strapped some of these cities are) or the FiOS service goes back to Verizon.

Frontier FiOS going back to Verizon has been a theory of mine for the past few months, based on actions visible in the public sphere and the latest one has come to pass: First, the Reverse Morris Trust deadline that Verizon used to foist our areas onto Frontier has now passed. Those assets can be used in an RMT again without penalty. Second, Frontier now has business and customer service offices open in every market where Verizon does copper and FiOS, but with copper on a greater scale (e.g. semi-rural Texas). Third, at least in Texas, Verizon's copper service is being provided by GTE Southwest d/b/a Verizon Southwest of Texas, a regulated utility, which no longer officially provisions dial-tone services over the FiOS networks owned by Verizon Infrastructure. In one of Verizon's latest SEC filings, they continued to downplay the role of their copper network.

All of this added together means that Verizon is in a position to "trade back" for its former FiOS areas, leaving Frontier saddled with the debt Frontier incurred to take them along with the copper markets. Ergo, Frontier gets to do just copper (like it wants), and Verizon gets back FiOS markets in regions that would be wildly popular if not for the build-out costs in those relatively small areas. At least in Puget Sound, Verizon Wireless and Xfinity can still continue their partnership unabated because Seattle is covered by Comcast but not Frontier.

(Why did Verizon force Frontier to take the FiOS systems that Frontier obviously didn't want? My theory is to make the deal more palpable to Frontier shareholders... "We're getting an advanced network, too!")

wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

and btw, if Frontier does adopt GPON or better widespread, not all ONT's get replaced, that would not be economical at all. They would install them on new and upgrading customers.

No. You misunderstood my original post.

All BPON customers will be force migrated to GPON beginning sometime this year.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

That doesnt make any sense at all. Why would they waste all that equipment? Frontier is already having enough trouble making money, so they will migrate people unnecessarily? Please explain why it would be necessary to move ALL existing customers to GPON.



wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
reply to wasvznowftr

said by wasvznowftr:

No. You misunderstood my original post.

All BPON customers will be force migrated to GPON beginning sometime this year.

That would be the height of lunacy. The ONT that they installed for me ~3 months ago would be replaced? Even Verizon doesn't do this and they actively market services that require GPON. A BPON ONT will still work with GPON equipment.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

BPON ont's do not work on GPON CO equipment, the point is Frontier would not switch all customers off of BPON to GPON. Imagine having to revisit all customers, its absurd. People will get GPON as new customers or when they upgrade their speeds.


wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000

said by ITALIAN926:

BPON ont's do not work on GPON CO equipment, the point is Frontier would not switch all customers off of BPON to GPON. Imagine having to revisit all customers, its absurd. People will get GPON as new customers or when they upgrade their speeds.

Sorry, italian.

Didn't know you had so much information.

See, chawk and I both work for Frontier in the Everett, WA Northwest HQ where the vast majority of Frontier's FiOS customers are served (Washington and Oregon) and thought we were being helpful by dropping some inside info.

But clearly you have more information than we do. I'll keep an eye on this and other threads to learn more from the users here. That way the next time I get a company email or have some director tell my department in a meeting what the future plans are , I'll know they're just full of it.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

LMAO, you have a paypal account? You want to BET Frontier does not migrate everyone off BPON? If they did make such a ludicrous choice, you should start sending out your resume to other companies.

Replacing not only ALL customers ONT's but CO PON cards as well. Then you have situations where ONT's are located within someones home, and you have to inconvenience the customer as well. Absurd.

BPON can handle 50Mbps per sub, possibly more, yet Frontier will force migrate everyone to GPON when like 90% of their overall footprint is still copper?



wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
reply to wasvznowftr

said by wasvznowftr:

See, chawk and I both work for Frontier in the Everett, WA Northwest HQ where the vast majority of Frontier's FiOS customers are served (Washington and Oregon) and thought we were being helpful by dropping some inside info.

But clearly you have more information than we do. I'll keep an eye on this and other threads to learn more from the users here. That way the next time I get a company email or have some director tell my department in a meeting what the future plans are , I'll know they're just full of it.

Italian sure does have a way with words.

Your managers may be giving you accurate information, and they probably are. Personally, I have no reason to suspect that your managers are lying to you. The question still remains: Why would Frontier swap all currently-deployed BPON equipment for GPON when they are both 1) still installing new BPON equipment in customer environments and 2) there would be no benefit to doing so based on the current service offering?

I sincerely, fervently hope that Frontier actually is going to convert the entire network to GPON. I really, really want you to be right. Why? We might get 300/65.

EdmondsFios

join:2010-09-02
Edmonds, WA
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit
reply to wasvznowftr

If Italian926 gets your sense of humor, this is going to become great reading material. I am also thrilled to hear that my new Tivo with Lifetime Service will no longer function with U verse and I will have to suck it up and go back to Comcast - for all my trliple play services.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to wesm

Thank you wes.

For you to GET GPON though, you dont have to convert the entire network ! lol Just add GPON to existing hubs ! Holy moly. A simple concept wasvznowftr managers cant comprehend. lol


vidvid

join:2010-09-10
reply to SadPanda

gpon upgrade was the plan - has been scrapped
vz 2012 deadline - has been scrapped
uverse content - has been scrapped



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
reply to SadPanda

And now that we've looped all the way back to the status quo, what's next for this thread?
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Melakion

join:2009-06-25
Marysville, WA
reply to SadPanda

Is most of Frontier's FiOS really BPON? I'm on GPON, and would assume everyone else coming out of Everett is too. Maybe just the East Side is BPON?



linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink
reply to SadPanda

Welcome to rural America where faux telco pretends to serves the vast majority of small towns from coast to coast. It is the same problem regardless of who is blowing the smoke or where you live.

You have 35/35 and you are not happy? I will trade you every day for my 10/.512 and kiss your hand for your generosity..
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to Melakion

You can have GPON and BPON out of the same hub, so you may have GPON, but your next-door neighbor could be on BPON.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
reply to linicx

said by linicx:

You have 35/35 and you are not happy? I will trade you every day for my 10/.512 and kiss your hand for your generosity..

You're entirely free to move to a FiOS (most of which are not rural). Otherwise, I'm not sure why you're posting a thread that has nothing to do with you...
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬