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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Anav

Re: Nope, that's not a sensationalist headline (oh brother)

said by Anav:

Love it, status quo do nothing approach. Hey run for politics you fit right in.

So you're advocating that we infringe on someone's Charter rights and/or break the law?

Gotcha!

I should just add, mental health care will be an important component in her life and no one should deny that. Unfortunately, as I harp on all the time, the level of care we provide for mental health issues in this country is absurd. Locking someone away because they might do something is not only not the answer, but it's outright illegal.


ekster
Hi there
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join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Reviews:
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1 recommendation

reply to vue666

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

We obviously can't lock her up for something she did not do as that's not only how our society doesn't work, but it's going to be one hell of a slippery slope with a lot of questions of where do we draw the line.

I'm all for a GPS bracelet on at all times as she needs supervision 24/7 in a situation like this though. And a lot of monitoring by psychiatrists.

dragonfly5

join:2012-09-04
reply to vue666
I'm all in favor of setting-aside some Charter rights of a person who's recorded videos of mutilating her pet animals and has planned to kill human beings. I think that's entirely reasonable, and I'd wager most of Canada would agree with me.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 recommendation

said by dragonfly5:

I'm all in favor of setting-aside some Charter rights for a person who's recorded videos of mutilating her pet animals and has planned to kill human beings. I think that's entirely reasonable, and I'd wager most of Canada would agree with me.

I'm entirely in favour of setting-aside some Charter rights for stupid people. I think that's entirely reasonable, and I'd wager most of Canada would agree with me.



When we start denying fundamental legal rights as a matter of convenience, we turn into a dictatorial police state.


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada

2 edits
reply to ekster
said by ekster:

We obviously can't lock her up for something she did not do as that's not only how our society doesn't work, but it's going to be one hell of a slippery slope with a lot of questions of where do we draw the line.

I'm all for a GPS bracelet on at all times as she needs supervision 24/7 in a situation like this though. And a lot of monitoring by psychiatrists.

And who's to pay for all of this? Multiply this scenerio by how ever many Canadians are in the same boat that we have not heard of. Then I'll ask again, who's to pay for this ever lasting treatment & surveillance?
Depending on the crime committed, I'd pitch in for a bullet (yes, for capital punishment on some crimes), but not for in perpetuity monitoring based on today's group-think hypothesis of what may or may not be psychopath/sociopath tendencies.

--
~ Project Hope ~


ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
We still have some rules and expectations in a society.

And someone living in prison their whole life is very expensive. And releasing them, then dealing with dead people, lawsuits, investigation, trials, etc also gets damn expensive.

So a GPS bracelet and some visits by a psychiatrist is a lot cheaper than doing nothing at all, or locking someone up in prison for life.

What other alternative is there? Deport them out of country and drop them off in the middle of an ocean? Maybe kill them first for a crime they might commit?


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Good questions to which I have no answer as I find Canada's justice system freakin' terrible, a bad, bad joke.
--
~ Project Hope ~

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

I'm entirely in favour of setting-aside some Charter rights for stupid people. I think that's entirely reasonable, and I'd wager most of Canada would agree with me.



When we start denying fundamental legal rights as a matter of convenience, we turn into a dictatorial police state.

That moment is well past in Canada.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to ekster
said by ekster:

We obviously can't lock her up for something she did not do as that's not only how our society doesn't work, but it's going to be one hell of a slippery slope with a lot of questions of where do we draw the line.

I'm all for a GPS bracelet on at all times as she needs supervision 24/7 in a situation like this though. And a lot of monitoring by psychiatrists.

Concur!
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to EUS
said by EUS:

said by ekster:

We obviously can't lock her up for something she did not do as that's not only how our society doesn't work, but it's going to be one hell of a slippery slope with a lot of questions of where do we draw the line.

I'm all for a GPS bracelet on at all times as she needs supervision 24/7 in a situation like this though. And a lot of monitoring by psychiatrists.

And who's to pay for all of this? Multiply this scenerio by how ever many Canadians are in the same boat that we have not heard of. Then I'll ask again, who's to pay for this ever lasting treatment & surveillance?

Well I know where to find $17 million a year for this!
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to EUS
said by EUS:

And who's to pay for all of this? Multiply this scenerio by how ever many Canadians are in the same boat that we have not heard of. Then I'll ask again, who's to pay for this ever lasting treatment & surveillance?
Depending on the crime committed, I'd pitch in for a bullet (yes, for capital punishment on some crimes), but not for in perpetuity monitoring based on today's group-think hypothesis of what may or may not be psychopath/sociopath tendencies.

Is surveillance and treatment going to be more or less expensive than locking someone up in perpetuity? I don't know, but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix

dragonfly5

join:2012-09-04

1 recommendation

reply to vue666
Putting someone in jail is violating their charter rights, by definition. As a society, we choose to call that reasonable when someone has committed a crime.

I'd put forth that this woman is mentally ill, as evidenced by her inclination to torture small animals and plan the murders of human beings, and so should be put into a mental hospital until she is well. That would violate her Charter rights. I feel it's reasonable.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:2

2 edits
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

Is surveillance and treatment going to be more or less expensive than locking someone up in perpetuity? I don't know, but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.

So other words you would prefer to wait until the crime occurs then deal with it rather then crime prevention?

But IF she hasn't done anything then WHY can't I own an AK47?

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

I have no intent to do anyone harm nor am I considered a high risk to do so...


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by EUS:

Depending on the crime committed, I'd pitch in for a bullet (yes, for capital punishment on some crimes)

but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.

I agree, you even quoted what I wrote. I shortened the quotes to make it plain as the nose on my face.
--
~ Project Hope ~


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

psst...a speeding ticket isn't a criminal record...speeding is a violation of the HTA, not a CC violation (unless it was going REALLY REALLY fast, where a dangerous driving charge, etc may come into play)...but i knew what you meant.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:2
I knew that ... LOL... Just trying to make a point...

I was doing something like 120 in a 100 kph zone in a Toyota Celica...
Expand your moderator at work


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:2
reply to Kardinal

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

said by Kardinal:

I don't know, but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
said by vue666:

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

Animal cruelty / killing is unlikely to get her much (if any) time. As much as some people feel, myself included, that torturing and killing an animal is reprehensible, it's not a high priority for prosecution.

Heck, even getting animal control to investigate a complaint can be tough.

dragonfly5

join:2012-09-04
Given one of the best indicators of a serial killer is the torture of animals, that attitude needs to change and it should be treated as a serious warning sign.

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to dragonfly5
said by dragonfly5:

Putting someone in jail is violating their charter rights, by definition. As a society, we choose to call that reasonable when someone has committed a crime.

I'd put forth that this woman is mentally ill, as evidenced by her inclination to torture small animals and plan the murders of human beings, and so should be put into a mental hospital until she is well. That would violate her Charter rights. I feel it's reasonable.

I think you might want to re-read the Charter. Imprisoning someone after due to trial is quite explicitly NOT a violation of Charter rights.

Your ignorance in relation to mental illness is also telling.

dragonfly5

join:2012-09-04
Read it yourself. Section 9 of the Charter gives the authorities the right to deprive someone of their Section 7 rights after a trial.

And, really? Do you suppose someone who tortures kittens is all-right and dandy?

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
said by dragonfly5:

Really? Do you suppose someone who tortures kittens is all-right and dandy?

Ah. I see you are using medical terms. I don't think people who post asinine comments on online forums are "all-right and dandy" yet they may or may not be mentally ill.

If criminal activity was a defining characteristic of mental illness, we wouldn't need prisons, everyone would be in a hospital. But there is more to a mental illness diagnosis.
Expand your moderator at work


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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N of 49th
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Reviews:
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reply to vue666

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

said by vue666:

So other words you would prefer to wait until the crime occurs then deal with it rather then crime prevention?.

Not even close, but try reading again without your filter of bias.

said by vue666:

But IF she hasn't done anything then WHY can't I own an AK47?

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

I have no intent to do anyone harm nor am I considered a high risk to do so...

Attempted tangent/troll that has nothing to do with the discussion. Ignored.

said by vue666:

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

It's not a crime for which incarceration is normally assigned, sorry. Is it wrong? Yes, but people just don't go to prison for it so you can't use it for that reason now. She's been in prison to "pay the price" for what she has already done, so she's allowed to leave and there are conditions being put on that.

Why do you feel the assessment of her being a high risk is correct, when you thought the assessment of Turcotte being low risk was so wrong? It's the same organization (of professionals) doing it after all, so going from hyper-critical to hyper-supportive of their work based on individual cases is odd behaviour to say the least. Or is it because this time it's feeding into your biases?
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix

dragonfly5

join:2012-09-04

1 edit
reply to NCRGuy
said by NCRGuy:

Ah. I see you are using medical terms. I don't think people who post asinine comments on online forums are "all-right and dandy" yet they may or may not be mentally ill.

[deleted]

If you feel so strongly that this woman is fit for release, how about you rent her a room in your house. Put your money where your mouth is.