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Kardinal
Dei Gratina Regina
Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th

Kardinal to EUS

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to EUS

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

said by EUS:

And who's to pay for all of this? Multiply this scenerio by how ever many Canadians are in the same boat that we have not heard of. Then I'll ask again, who's to pay for this ever lasting treatment & surveillance?
Depending on the crime committed, I'd pitch in for a bullet (yes, for capital punishment on some crimes), but not for in perpetuity monitoring based on today's group-think hypothesis of what may or may not be psychopath/sociopath tendencies.

Is surveillance and treatment going to be more or less expensive than locking someone up in perpetuity? I don't know, but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.
dragonfly5
join:2012-09-04

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dragonfly5 to vue666

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Putting someone in jail is violating their charter rights, by definition. As a society, we choose to call that reasonable when someone has committed a crime.

I'd put forth that this woman is mentally ill, as evidenced by her inclination to torture small animals and plan the murders of human beings, and so should be put into a mental hospital until she is well. That would violate her Charter rights. I feel it's reasonable.
vue666 (banned)
Let's make Canchat better!!!
join:2007-12-07

2 edits

vue666 (banned) to Kardinal

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said by Kardinal:

Is surveillance and treatment going to be more or less expensive than locking someone up in perpetuity? I don't know, but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.

So other words you would prefer to wait until the crime occurs then deal with it rather then crime prevention?

But IF she hasn't done anything then WHY can't I own an AK47?

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

I have no intent to do anyone harm nor am I considered a high risk to do so...

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to Kardinal

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to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by EUS:

Depending on the crime committed, I'd pitch in for a bullet (yes, for capital punishment on some crimes)

but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.

I agree, you even quoted what I wrote. I shortened the quotes to make it plain as the nose on my face.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0 to vue666

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said by vue666:

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

psst...a speeding ticket isn't a criminal record...speeding is a violation of the HTA, not a CC violation (unless it was going REALLY REALLY fast, where a dangerous driving charge, etc may come into play)...but i knew what you meant.
vue666 (banned)
Let's make Canchat better!!!
join:2007-12-07

vue666 (banned)

Member

I knew that ... LOL... Just trying to make a point...

I was doing something like 120 in a 100 kph zone in a Toyota Celica...
Expand your moderator at work
vue666

vue666 (banned) to Kardinal

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to Kardinal

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

said by Kardinal:

I don't know, but I do know that I don't favour "a bullet" for something that someone hasn't done yet. I guess it's just me, but innocent until proven guilty is pretty strong when a crime hasn't actually occurred.

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker

Premium Member

said by vue666:

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

Animal cruelty / killing is unlikely to get her much (if any) time. As much as some people feel, myself included, that torturing and killing an animal is reprehensible, it's not a high priority for prosecution.

Heck, even getting animal control to investigate a complaint can be tough.
dragonfly5
join:2012-09-04

dragonfly5

Member

Given one of the best indicators of a serial killer is the torture of animals, that attitude needs to change and it should be treated as a serious warning sign.
NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

NCRGuy to dragonfly5

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to dragonfly5
said by dragonfly5:

Putting someone in jail is violating their charter rights, by definition. As a society, we choose to call that reasonable when someone has committed a crime.

I'd put forth that this woman is mentally ill, as evidenced by her inclination to torture small animals and plan the murders of human beings, and so should be put into a mental hospital until she is well. That would violate her Charter rights. I feel it's reasonable.

I think you might want to re-read the Charter. Imprisoning someone after due to trial is quite explicitly NOT a violation of Charter rights.

Your ignorance in relation to mental illness is also telling.
dragonfly5
join:2012-09-04

dragonfly5

Member

Read it yourself. Section 9 of the Charter gives the authorities the right to deprive someone of their Section 7 rights after a trial.

And, really? Do you suppose someone who tortures kittens is all-right and dandy?
NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

NCRGuy

Member

said by dragonfly5:

Really? Do you suppose someone who tortures kittens is all-right and dandy?

Ah. I see you are using medical terms. I don't think people who post asinine comments on online forums are "all-right and dandy" yet they may or may not be mentally ill.

If criminal activity was a defining characteristic of mental illness, we wouldn't need prisons, everyone would be in a hospital. But there is more to a mental illness diagnosis.
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Kardinal
Dei Gratina Regina
Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th

1 recommendation

Kardinal to vue666

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to vue666

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

said by vue666:

So other words you would prefer to wait until the crime occurs then deal with it rather then crime prevention?.

Not even close, but try reading again without your filter of bias.
said by vue666:

But IF she hasn't done anything then WHY can't I own an AK47?

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

I have no intent to do anyone harm nor am I considered a high risk to do so...

Attempted tangent/troll that has nothing to do with the discussion. Ignored.
said by vue666:

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

It's not a crime for which incarceration is normally assigned, sorry. Is it wrong? Yes, but people just don't go to prison for it so you can't use it for that reason now. She's been in prison to "pay the price" for what she has already done, so she's allowed to leave and there are conditions being put on that.

Why do you feel the assessment of her being a high risk is correct, when you thought the assessment of Turcotte being low risk was so wrong? It's the same organization (of professionals) doing it after all, so going from hyper-critical to hyper-supportive of their work based on individual cases is odd behaviour to say the least. Or is it because this time it's feeding into your biases?
dragonfly5
join:2012-09-04

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dragonfly5 to NCRGuy

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said by NCRGuy:

Ah. I see you are using medical terms. I don't think people who post asinine comments on online forums are "all-right and dandy" yet they may or may not be mentally ill.

[deleted]

If you feel so strongly that this woman is fit for release, how about you rent her a room in your house. Put your money where your mouth is.
jaberi
join:2010-08-13

jaberi to vue666

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didn't luka magnotta start out with the animal killings?
vue666 (banned)
Let's make Canchat better!!!
join:2007-12-07

vue666 (banned) to Kardinal

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to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by vue666:

So other words you would prefer to wait until the crime occurs then deal with it rather then crime prevention?.

Not even close, but try reading again without your filter of bias.
said by vue666:

But IF she hasn't done anything then WHY can't I own an AK47?

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

I have no intent to do anyone harm nor am I considered a high risk to do so...

Attempted tangent/troll that has nothing to do with the discussion. Ignored.
said by vue666:

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

It's not a crime for which incarceration is normally assigned, sorry. Is it wrong? Yes, but people just don't go to prison for it so you can't use it for that reason now. She's been in prison to "pay the price" for what she has already done, so she's allowed to leave and there are conditions being put on that.

Why do you feel the assessment of her being a high risk is correct, when you thought the assessment of Turcotte being low risk was so wrong? It's the same organization (of professionals) doing it after all, so going from hyper-critical to hyper-supportive of their work based on individual cases is odd behaviour to say the least. Or is it because this time it's feeding into your biases?

The reason I can not have an AK47 is because of it's possible danger to society... Now the authorities are warning Kayla Bourque is a possible danger to society...
vue666

vue666 (banned)

Member

Kayla hopes to murder someone under the age of 14 before she turns 40 according to police...
quote:
VANCOUVER — The person Kayla Bourque is likely to target would be someone weak and vulnerable who can be overpowered, but also someone strong enough "to fight back a little," according to court documents on the convicted animal torturer living in Vancouver.

The documents say the 23-year-old doesn't have a specific target in mind, but has a "type of victim" she could hurt if the opportunity presents itself.

In 2006, Bourque told police in her hometown of Prince George that she planned to kill before she turned 40, with "the primary target being someone under the age of 14, as such a person would be easy to overpower," said an RCMP report referenced in search warrant documents.

Bourque was released from jail Monday after serving time for killing her family pets.

quote:
She is also a sexual sadist who feels no remorse, but can't be certified under the Mental Health Act because she isn't considered psychotic.

Read more: »www.theprovince.com/news ··· HZZoSwLB

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

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to jaberi
said by jaberi:

didn't luka magnotta start out with the animal killings?

ding ding ding! You win the prize. Please no concrete examples of the outcome of letting this type of person run loose in the wilds of society
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Anav

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Anav to vue666

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Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

kardinal your right in terms of being jaded. Every week if not day now it seems there is one violent crime being committed in our area and the thing that sticks in my craw is the almost standard line.....

One man (or two men) are being held in custody for sentencing today for the stabbing (insert violence & robbery) as well as charges for BREACHING PROBATION AND COURT ORDERS.

These are criminals who actually have some measure of control over their faculties. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum realistically thinking that this women is not a threat to society. Concur that there seems to be a lack of options and perhaps will to do anything about it. In my opinion we need to change legislation such that for special cases aka pig farmers and cat killers we can take extraordinary efforts to ensure they do not roam the wilds of our society.
vue666 (banned)
Let's make Canchat better!!!
join:2007-12-07

vue666 (banned)

Member

I might add if our HRM police or social workers were asked to monitor everyone of these criminals and thugs it would tie up our police and social services to the point hardly anything else would ever get done...

I wonder if Bourque's fantasy was to harm Stephen Harper or Justin Trudeau would she be released back into society? Yet when she has desires to murder a child it's the "wait and see what happens" response...
vue666

vue666 (banned) to Anav

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to Anav
said by Anav:

said by jaberi:

didn't luka magnotta start out with the animal killings?

ding ding ding! You win the prize. Please no concrete examples of the outcome of letting this type of person run loose in the wilds of society

Exactly, these are warning signs that must be heeded. IF the low oil pressure light comes on in my car I pay attention. I do NOT wait until something happens...

Hydraglass
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join:2002-05-08

Hydraglass to Anav

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to Anav
said by Anav:

kardinal your right in terms of being jaded. Every week if not day now it seems there is one violent crime being committed in our area and the thing that sticks in my craw is the almost standard line.....

One man (or two men) are being held in custody for sentencing today for the stabbing (insert violence & robbery) as well as charges for BREACHING PROBATION AND COURT ORDERS.

These are criminals who actually have some measure of control over their faculties. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum realistically thinking that this women is not a threat to society. Concur that there seems to be a lack of options and perhaps will to do anything about it. In my opinion we need to change legislation such that for special cases aka pig farmers and cat killers we can take extraordinary efforts to ensure they do not roam the wilds of our society.

We used to have insane asylums for these people - you could have them committed and until a doctor said they wouldn't ever hurt anyone, they stayed locked up and under psychiatric care. We seem to have done away with those places and now there's two choices left - prison - and no one will lock them up in prison because they haven't "done the crime" yet so they can't "do the time", and "watch them and release them" - which fails miserably all the time - because no one can be successfully watched 24 hours a day when they are out in the public. You can put a monitoring bracelet on them, but when they decide it's time to kill someone, it'll be too long before the authorities get to them to stop them, you can have someone "babysit" them but eventually people fall asleep and people walk away or aren't looking. See how often "almost rehabilitated" convicts walk away from halfway houses to know that's not foolproof.

Time to bring back the loony bin (as opposed to the loonie bin that I keep in my end table).

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

Anav

Premium Member

I would prefer to say Recreational Centres as Asylums have a bad rap in books and movies and probably for real (really dont know). All to say is any institution type setup has to be new, different, better and more humane than any in the past which seem to have been cauldrons of abuse. Even now old folks homes seem to ferment abuse. We have to stop that BS!!