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NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
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reply to dragonfly

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

said by dragonfly:

Putting someone in jail is violating their charter rights, by definition. As a society, we choose to call that reasonable when someone has committed a crime.

I'd put forth that this woman is mentally ill, as evidenced by her inclination to torture small animals and plan the murders of human beings, and so should be put into a mental hospital until she is well. That would violate her Charter rights. I feel it's reasonable.

I think you might want to re-read the Charter. Imprisoning someone after due to trial is quite explicitly NOT a violation of Charter rights.

Your ignorance in relation to mental illness is also telling.

dragonfly

join:2012-09-04

Read it yourself. Section 9 of the Charter gives the authorities the right to deprive someone of their Section 7 rights after a trial.

And, really? Do you suppose someone who tortures kittens is all-right and dandy?


NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by dragonfly:

Really? Do you suppose someone who tortures kittens is all-right and dandy?

Ah. I see you are using medical terms. I don't think people who post asinine comments on online forums are "all-right and dandy" yet they may or may not be mentally ill.

If criminal activity was a defining characteristic of mental illness, we wouldn't need prisons, everyone would be in a hospital. But there is more to a mental illness diagnosis.
Expand your moderator at work


Kardinal
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reply to vue666

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

said by vue666:

So other words you would prefer to wait until the crime occurs then deal with it rather then crime prevention?.

Not even close, but try reading again without your filter of bias.

said by vue666:

But IF she hasn't done anything then WHY can't I own an AK47?

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

I have no intent to do anyone harm nor am I considered a high risk to do so...

Attempted tangent/troll that has nothing to do with the discussion. Ignored.

said by vue666:

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

It's not a crime for which incarceration is normally assigned, sorry. Is it wrong? Yes, but people just don't go to prison for it so you can't use it for that reason now. She's been in prison to "pay the price" for what she has already done, so she's allowed to leave and there are conditions being put on that.

Why do you feel the assessment of her being a high risk is correct, when you thought the assessment of Turcotte being low risk was so wrong? It's the same organization (of professionals) doing it after all, so going from hyper-critical to hyper-supportive of their work based on individual cases is odd behaviour to say the least. Or is it because this time it's feeding into your biases?
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dragonfly

join:2012-09-04

1 edit
reply to NCRGuy

said by NCRGuy:

Ah. I see you are using medical terms. I don't think people who post asinine comments on online forums are "all-right and dandy" yet they may or may not be mentally ill.

[deleted]

If you feel so strongly that this woman is fit for release, how about you rent her a room in your house. Put your money where your mouth is.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
reply to vue666

didn't luka magnotta start out with the animal killings?



vue666
Small block Chevys never die
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Halifax, NS
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reply to Kardinal

said by Kardinal:

said by vue666:

So other words you would prefer to wait until the crime occurs then deal with it rather then crime prevention?.

Not even close, but try reading again without your filter of bias.

said by vue666:

But IF she hasn't done anything then WHY can't I own an AK47?

I mean I have NO criminal record other then one speeding ticket when I was in my early 20's...

I have no intent to do anyone harm nor am I considered a high risk to do so...

Attempted tangent/troll that has nothing to do with the discussion. Ignored.

said by vue666:

So killing the family dog & torturing a cat, video taping the actions is not a crime? Sorry but a crime has been committed and with a strong indication (by professionals) she will do so again....

It's not a crime for which incarceration is normally assigned, sorry. Is it wrong? Yes, but people just don't go to prison for it so you can't use it for that reason now. She's been in prison to "pay the price" for what she has already done, so she's allowed to leave and there are conditions being put on that.

Why do you feel the assessment of her being a high risk is correct, when you thought the assessment of Turcotte being low risk was so wrong? It's the same organization (of professionals) doing it after all, so going from hyper-critical to hyper-supportive of their work based on individual cases is odd behaviour to say the least. Or is it because this time it's feeding into your biases?

The reason I can not have an AK47 is because of it's possible danger to society... Now the authorities are warning Kayla Bourque is a possible danger to society...


vue666
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reply to vue666

Kayla hopes to murder someone under the age of 14 before she turns 40 according to police...

quote:
VANCOUVER — The person Kayla Bourque is likely to target would be someone weak and vulnerable who can be overpowered, but also someone strong enough "to fight back a little," according to court documents on the convicted animal torturer living in Vancouver.

The documents say the 23-year-old doesn't have a specific target in mind, but has a "type of victim" she could hurt if the opportunity presents itself.

In 2006, Bourque told police in her hometown of Prince George that she planned to kill before she turned 40, with "the primary target being someone under the age of 14, as such a person would be easy to overpower," said an RCMP report referenced in search warrant documents.

Bourque was released from jail Monday after serving time for killing her family pets.

quote:
She is also a sexual sadist who feels no remorse, but can't be certified under the Mental Health Act because she isn't considered psychotic.

Read more: »www.theprovince.com/news/Convict···HZZoSwLB


Anav
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Dartmouth, NS
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reply to jaberi

said by jaberi:

didn't luka magnotta start out with the animal killings?

ding ding ding! You win the prize. Please no concrete examples of the outcome of letting this type of person run loose in the wilds of society
Expand your moderator at work


Anav
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1 recommendation

reply to vue666

Re: Kayla Bourque - Killer in the waiting

kardinal your right in terms of being jaded. Every week if not day now it seems there is one violent crime being committed in our area and the thing that sticks in my craw is the almost standard line.....

One man (or two men) are being held in custody for sentencing today for the stabbing (insert violence & robbery) as well as charges for BREACHING PROBATION AND COURT ORDERS.

These are criminals who actually have some measure of control over their faculties. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum realistically thinking that this women is not a threat to society. Concur that there seems to be a lack of options and perhaps will to do anything about it. In my opinion we need to change legislation such that for special cases aka pig farmers and cat killers we can take extraordinary efforts to ensure they do not roam the wilds of our society.
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vue666
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I might add if our HRM police or social workers were asked to monitor everyone of these criminals and thugs it would tie up our police and social services to the point hardly anything else would ever get done...

I wonder if Bourque's fantasy was to harm Stephen Harper or Justin Trudeau would she be released back into society? Yet when she has desires to murder a child it's the "wait and see what happens" response...



vue666
Small block Chevys never die
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Halifax, NS
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reply to Anav

said by Anav:

said by jaberi:

didn't luka magnotta start out with the animal killings?

ding ding ding! You win the prize. Please no concrete examples of the outcome of letting this type of person run loose in the wilds of society

Exactly, these are warning signs that must be heeded. IF the low oil pressure light comes on in my car I pay attention. I do NOT wait until something happens...


Hydraglass
Premium
join:2002-05-08
Kingston, ON
reply to Anav

said by Anav:

kardinal your right in terms of being jaded. Every week if not day now it seems there is one violent crime being committed in our area and the thing that sticks in my craw is the almost standard line.....

One man (or two men) are being held in custody for sentencing today for the stabbing (insert violence & robbery) as well as charges for BREACHING PROBATION AND COURT ORDERS.

These are criminals who actually have some measure of control over their faculties. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum realistically thinking that this women is not a threat to society. Concur that there seems to be a lack of options and perhaps will to do anything about it. In my opinion we need to change legislation such that for special cases aka pig farmers and cat killers we can take extraordinary efforts to ensure they do not roam the wilds of our society.

We used to have insane asylums for these people - you could have them committed and until a doctor said they wouldn't ever hurt anyone, they stayed locked up and under psychiatric care. We seem to have done away with those places and now there's two choices left - prison - and no one will lock them up in prison because they haven't "done the crime" yet so they can't "do the time", and "watch them and release them" - which fails miserably all the time - because no one can be successfully watched 24 hours a day when they are out in the public. You can put a monitoring bracelet on them, but when they decide it's time to kill someone, it'll be too long before the authorities get to them to stop them, you can have someone "babysit" them but eventually people fall asleep and people walk away or aren't looking. See how often "almost rehabilitated" convicts walk away from halfway houses to know that's not foolproof.

Time to bring back the loony bin (as opposed to the loonie bin that I keep in my end table).


Anav
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I would prefer to say Recreational Centres as Asylums have a bad rap in books and movies and probably for real (really dont know). All to say is any institution type setup has to be new, different, better and more humane than any in the past which seem to have been cauldrons of abuse. Even now old folks homes seem to ferment abuse. We have to stop that BS!!



Hydraglass
Premium
join:2002-05-08
Kingston, ON

said by Anav:

I would prefer to say Recreational Centres as Asylums have a bad rap in books and movies and probably for real (really dont know). All to say is any institution type setup has to be new, different, better and more humane than any in the past which seem to have been cauldrons of abuse. Even now old folks homes seem to ferment abuse. We have to stop that BS!!

Absolutely - it can't be the "experiment on their brains and use them as torture guinea pigs evil mental hospital of yore" - we needs mental care facilities with a LOT of staff and professionals with expertise in mental care as well as patient care/personal support workers, it needs to be tightly regulated and inspected (perhaps we need a new or improved branch of government that is dedicated to providing and regulating mental health services, similar but separate from acute health care? Just a thought...), patients need to be closely and thoroughly monitored, there needs to be "things for them to do if they are able to be productive" (jobs, services, etc... heck half these people could provide better phone support for Bell than what I get now :P) - but there's a large segment of the population with mental health issues that just have nowhere to be put with proper monitoring - especially for those who are a continuing danger to themselves or others.


vue666
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Halifax, NS
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reply to vue666

Well stated Hydraglass.... the other extreme is the horrendous treatment of Ashley Smith by our justice system....

Ashley's crime was the juvenile prank of throwing a snowball at someone yet she loses her life because of flaws in our system...

Yet Bourque who has desires to kill and a high risk will be let lose into society...

We need balance....



Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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Lots of talk about "needing a better system" and "protecting society", and yet if there is talk of raising taxes to better the mental health system (which is what needs a major boost overall, and these individuals getting news are 0.001% of the need), will it all be supported as necessary or will it be "I already pay too much tax...the government needs to find the money somewhere else".

I wonder, given some of the past threads about mental health issues in this forum and the opinions expressed therein.

(edit = added text)
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vue666
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Halifax, NS
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3 edits

No need to raise taxes. Just cut out the government waste and re-consider what services are essential and then prioritorize them...

Education, healthcare should be at the forefront...

said by Kardinal:

I wonder, given some of the past threads about mental health issues in this forum and the opinions expressed therein.
(edit = added text)

You simply live too much in the past my friend... time to move on... People over time can change. Especially opinions...


J E F F
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reply to NCRGuy

said by NCRGuy:

If criminal activity was a defining characteristic of mental illness, we wouldn't need prisons, everyone would be in a hospital. But there is more to a mental illness diagnosis.

I'd argue that everyone, except people who were railroaded by the system, in prison have mental issues.

If we focused on mental health a little more, there would be a lot of guards and police officers using employment services.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
Premium
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Halifax, NS
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said by J E F F:

said by NCRGuy:

If criminal activity was a defining characteristic of mental illness, we wouldn't need prisons, everyone would be in a hospital. But there is more to a mental illness diagnosis.

I'd argue that everyone, except people who were railroaded by the system, in prison have mental issues.

If we focused on mental health a little more, there would be a lot of guards and police officers using employment services.

Or retrained as healthcare professionals...


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
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join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Anav

said by Anav:

Every week if not day now it seems there is one violent crime being committed in our area and the thing that sticks in my craw is the almost standard line.....

One man (or two men) are being held in custody for sentencing today for the stabbing (insert violence & robbery) as well as charges for BREACHING PROBATION AND COURT ORDERS.

Look another one... Morgan James McNeil was arrested yesterday as a suspect in the murder of Laura Jessome...

»www.news957.com/2013/01/10/cape-···omicide/

In May 2012 he was arrested for armed robbery...

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot···ect.html


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
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join:2002-02-21
London, ON

1 recommendation

i said long ago, in most cases like these, the statement "known to police" and references of being out on bail or parole are all too common.



Kardinal
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reply to vue666

said by vue666:

Look another one... Morgan James McNeil was arrested yesterday as a suspect in the murder of Laura Jessome...

»www.news957.com/2013/01/10/cape-···omicide/

In May 2012 he was arrested for armed robbery...

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot···ect.html

Hmmm.....the cbc.ca article states that he was considered as "serious risk" to society, but it doesn't say if that's the opinion of a psychiatric assessment (like the one for Bourque that people are referring to when demanding indefinite custody) or a police opinion that I often see when referring to a suspect. Are you now advocating that any suspect (since I haven't seen trial results) who the police assign a risk to should be held indefinitely? That's what the use of this example looks like. If it is, a lot more prisons are going to be needed if all suspects who might be a risk are going to be held pending trial, with all the associated costs.

Oh wait....."get rid of government waste" will take care of those costs too, right?
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

rumour has it, the power plant fiasco costs could be as high as $1 Billion...you don't think $1 Billion into mental health could do some good?...you could build a massive mental health facility, and house and care for many of the people who need it.

just like we saw with Attawapiskat, the money is there, it is just being mismanaged.