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d_source
join:2011-01-18

d_source to resa1983

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to resa1983

Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday.

In order for their to be twists and turns, the people affected need to show up and represent themselves, so at a minimum i'm hoping they are smart enough to do that.
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983

Premium Member

said by d_source:

In order for their to be twists and turns, the people affected need to show up and represent themselves, so at a minimum i'm hoping they are smart enough to do that.

You're assuming the judge won't allow CIPPIC to intervene?
d_source
join:2011-01-18

d_source

Member

If I were one of the people affected, i definitely wouldn't rely on that! I'd have my own lawyer in there for sure! I'm not even with TSI and I am going to support the funds being collected to stop this mess. It NEEDS to stop on Monday.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to d_source

Premium Member

to d_source
said by d_source:

In order for their to be twists and turns, the people affected need to show up and represent themselves, so at a minimum i'm hoping they are smart enough to do that.

Wrong.
They need to have counsel represent them.

Voltage knows nobody's names/addresses now. You want to be an idiot and show up to represent *yourself* - and go on the record with your name & address - fine, be a fool and do that. Next thing you'll be looking at is a subpoena to seize your computer & backups to look for evidence of infringement. That's what I'd do to anyone who *gave up* their identity as you've proposed.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs to resa1983

Premium Member

to resa1983
said by resa1983:

said by d_source:

In order for their to be twists and turns, the people affected need to show up and represent themselves, so at a minimum i'm hoping they are smart enough to do that.

You're assuming the judge won't allow CIPPIC to intervene?

There is no guarantee that the judge will allow CIPPIC to intervene.

TSI made a deal with Voltage to allow TSI to allow time for TSI to contact those alleged to have infringed to allow them to represent themselves (hopefully via counsel) in court. The 14th is that date.

If no counsel shows up for individuals, and Voltage says "Your Honour, TSI and us had a deal, and now there's there is this CIPPIC thing trying to force their way in - when no counsel of record for anybody showed up, come on - give us a break. We did everything we said we would. The alleged infringers were notified and chose not to represent themselves. Please grant us the order requiring TSI to hand over the names."

If that's the way the 14th played out, and I were the judge, I'd be inclined to agree with Voltage.
d_source
join:2011-01-18

d_source to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
Yes, sorry, when I say represent themselves, I meant anonymously by sending counsel on their behalf, you are correct.

And you have a very good point. If no counsel appears from the ~2300 affected, why would the judge allow CIPPIC to intervene? Again, if it were me, there's no way I would let this go unfettered.

Dr Facts
@gc.ca

Dr Facts

Anon

>why would the judge allow CIPPIC to intervene?

I think CIPPIC makes an argument for that in their latest letter? The judge did read their first one so that's could be taken as a positive sign.
Tong
join:2012-12-11
r3t 38x

Tong to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
I keep hearing this "deal" is made. Isn't there a law that ISP is required to inform the customer a third party is requesting private information? I think it is the "Notice to Notice" or something? So I'm don't know what is this "deal" all about.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Dr Facts

Premium Member

to Dr Facts
said by Dr Facts :

>why would the judge allow CIPPIC to intervene?

I think CIPPIC makes an argument for that in their latest letter? The judge did read their first one so that's could be taken as a positive sign.

We won't know *what* it means until the 14th.
Right now all it means is that he's read the letter and is considering what comes next.
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983

Premium Member

The motion to intervene by CIPPIC was filed on the 21st last month, and served to both Voltage & Teksavvy. I linked it before I think...

Either way, it'll be decided on on Monday, with additional arguments CIPPIC has held in reserve, as well as plenty of evidence. I know I've been tossing a few things off to CIPPIC to help them out...

One thing I'm wondering... Has CIPPIC ever been denied on a motion to intervene?

The Judge seemed open to hearing CIPPIC, until Plaintiff's counsel brought up the fact that CIPPIC hadn't formally filed to intervene.. But still read the intent to intervene, which he didn't need to do.

I think its encouraging.
d_source
join:2011-01-18

d_source

Member

What I don't get is why so many people seem to think that CIPPIC will be able to win this on their own. Is everyone putting their eggs into that basket only? I see a lot of people posting here about what could/should be done, about what TSI should do, and CIPPIC, but I haven't read anyone's post that they have contacted a lawyer and that their lawyer will be present on Monday. Unless that happens, I see this as an easy victory for Voltage, sadly. And then the extortion letters will begin and other companies will follow the leader. This is so wrong in so many ways and yet I don't see anyone defending themselves properly.

Zing
@teksavvy.com

Zing

Anon

It would cost that brave person hundreds of dollars to bring a lawyer in for the hearing. Are you willing to put down 500$ for the good of everyone ?

Also, not everyone lives in Toronto.
So you can add travel cost and time to that.
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983 to d_source

Premium Member

to d_source
said by d_source:

What I don't get is why so many people seem to think that CIPPIC will be able to win this on their own. Is everyone putting their eggs into that basket only? I see a lot of people posting here about what could/should be done, about what TSI should do, and CIPPIC, but I haven't read anyone's post that they have contacted a lawyer and that their lawyer will be present on Monday. Unless that happens, I see this as an easy victory for Voltage, sadly. And then the extortion letters will begin and other companies will follow the leader. This is so wrong in so many ways and yet I don't see anyone defending themselves properly.

The case can't continue on until CIPPIC's motion to intervene is ruled on by the Judge, which may or may not happen on Monday.

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker to d_source

Premium Member

to d_source
said by d_source:

This is so wrong in so many ways and yet I don't see anyone defending themselves properly.

I haven't kept up on the entire thread, however, a lot of people posting here were not on the list of IPs. Those that are, if they have consulted a lawyer, were probably first told not to talk about it publically.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

said by A Lurker:

I haven't kept up on the entire thread, however, a lot of people posting here were not on the list of IPs. Those that are, if they have consulted a lawyer, were probably first told not to talk about it publically.

QFT, discussing your legal strategy in an area where your opponents could find out what it is, is a bad idea.

citizenkane
@bell.ca

citizenkane to d_source

Anon

to d_source
i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.
said by d_source:

What I don't get is why so many people seem to think that CIPPIC will be able to win this on their own. Is everyone putting their eggs into that basket only? I see a lot of people posting here about what could/should be done, about what TSI should do, and CIPPIC, but I haven't read anyone's post that they have contacted a lawyer and that their lawyer will be present on Monday. Unless that happens, I see this as an easy victory for Voltage, sadly. And then the extortion letters will begin and other companies will follow the leader. This is so wrong in so many ways and yet I don't see anyone defending themselves properly.

Tong
join:2012-12-11
r3t 38x

Tong

Member

We don't like the settle price they are asking, so we will see you in court. However, I have not seen one case where someone file defense in court and then they take the person to court.
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187 to citizenkane

Member

to citizenkane
said by citizenkane :

i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.

1. The last time I check you are innocent until proven guilty. The motion is against Teksavvy to hand over the Does information. Maybe you should try to read carefully and thoroughly before you make a ridiculous post.

2. It is extortion and it seems all the professionals disagree with you.
FatBastid
join:2012-12-27
Toronto, ON

FatBastid to citizenkane

Member

to citizenkane
said by citizenkane :

i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.

That's a somewhat ignorant statement on your part. Because you don't know if "they", being ALL the people being accused, broke the law.

And even if "they" did, if you've been reading this thread you should know that it's not the point. This situation is like doing 10 km/h over the speed limit on an empty road and then later, based on a picture taken by a 3rd party, receiving a summons for dangerous driving. Speeding 10 km over the limit is about a $50 fine. A dangerous driving conviction results in a criminal record and (in Ontario) an automatic one-year license suspension (for a first offense). The charges are ridiculous, the evidence to support them even more so, but now you have to spend thousands of dollars appearing in court and fighting the system. You are of the opinion that there would be nothing wrong with such a situation, and those who don't like it, shouldn't drive. All I can say is, wow.

random
@teksavvy.com

random to citizenkane

Anon

to citizenkane
It is a civil court not a criminal court. It is not like the RCMP caught these people, but the plaintive claimed that they do.

At this point, it is their word vs everyone else. This first part is the release of users information. Until the actual trial case(s) (if at all) on the infringement, can't even say they have broken the law or not.

These 2000+ people from an ISP are being sued for "commercial" copyright infringement which is highly unlikely.
cynic10
join:2011-02-05

1 edit

cynic10 to citizenkane

Member

to citizenkane
said by citizenkane :

i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.

Please go educate yourself further on the matter before making such statements. You come off as very ignorant and I'm trying to be nice here.

God forbid, if you or your family members ever get mistakenly accused of pirating, I'd like to see you eat your words and put your money where your mouth is, assuming you or they can even afford to settle.
Voltage
join:2013-01-13

Voltage to d_source

Member

to d_source
said by d_source:

If I were one of the people affected, i definitely wouldn't rely on that! I'd have my own lawyer in there for sure! I'm not even with TSI and I am going to support the funds being collected to stop this mess. It NEEDS to stop on Monday.

what funds? i wasnt aware we could help donate for this cause?
sanc5
join:2012-12-13
Mississauga, ON

sanc5

Member

»Kickstarter for funds VS Voltage Lawsuits-CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED!
FatBastid
join:2012-12-27
Toronto, ON

FatBastid

Member

If people want this to be the last time Voltage pulls this trick in Canada just brand them a vexatious litigant:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ve ··· litigant

It can be done in Quebec, not sure if Ontario has a similar set up, but at least the Frenchies would be safe. I don't know how many of these 1000's of John Doe's will end up in court, but we all know that nearly none, if any at all, committed commercial infringement as claimed by Voltage. So nearly all of those that end up in court will be either dismissed or reduced to infringement for personal use. After a dozen of those fishing expeditions that led to nothing are on record in our courts, lawyers representing future defendants should be able to ask for dismissal outright.

I have a feeling Voltage knows this, they just want to get the precedent for having the ISP (Teksavvy) cough up the name without a fuss. Either that or they thing our judges are really, really dumb.