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Dliv

join:2010-03-29
Lutherville Timonium, MD
reply to fishacura

Re: Ultra HD at CES

JPL is right on all points. I'm a big SACD and DVD Audio fan, but the masses never got on board with them, so they faded away.


fishacura

join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA

said by Dliv:

JPL is right on all points. I'm a big SACD and DVD Audio fan, but the masses never got on board with them, so they faded away.

Ahhhh DVD Audio....I really wish that would have taken off. Had it in one of my old cars and in that confined space it was an amazing experience.
--
People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1.


Nezmo
The name's Bond. James Bond.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-11-10
Coppell, TX
kudos:1

said by fishacura:

said by Dliv:

JPL is right on all points. I'm a big SACD and DVD Audio fan, but the masses never got on board with them, so they faded away.

Ahhhh DVD Audio....I really wish that would have taken off. Had it in one of my old cars and in that confined space it was an amazing experience.

Agreed. In my TL it sounds fantastic.
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My Gallery
Formerly Nezmo

knarf829

join:2007-06-02
kudos:1
reply to Dliv

said by Dliv:

JPL is right on all points. I'm a big SACD and DVD Audio fan, but the masses never got on board with them, so they faded away.

Don't look now, but SACD is alive and well with plenty of new releases and the support of an enthusiastic community. It's a niche market for people who enjoy more quality conscious musical genres, but it's a market.


rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
reply to fishacura

said by fishacura:

re: gimmick....I don't see why. PQ comes out time after time as the thing people care about most. If (not sure as I have not seen it) the PQ is that much better, I don't see why people wouldn't pursue it.

re: whether the human eye can see a difference...not sure. I don't know if you need the 8k version, but if you walk up to a HD set, you can still see the pixels in a normal HD set...imagine what PQ would look like if you couldn't see them even at close range? I have to believe there is something better than HD. Maybe not 8k but to limit ourselves to HD as it stands today is tatamount to people who said "why would we ever need a car when we have horses".

because other than a bluray DVD that comes encoded at 1080p all else wil be at the mercy of the uploader, and then the cable company's extra compression as in cramming many channels in one satellite transponder etc. etc. etc just a gimmick for people that don't have a technical clue.

fishacura

join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA
reply to Nezmo

said by Nezmo:

Agreed. In my TL it sounds fantastic.

:( I miss my TL thanks for reminding me!

fishacura

join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA
reply to rtcy

rtcy - you make a gross assumption that compression, bandwidth limitations, etc will continue in their current state. That may or may not happen and I go back to my original sentiment that the only certainty re: technology is that the future is always uncertain.
--
People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1.



Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ

said by fishacura:

rtcy - you make a gross assumption that compression, bandwidth limitations, etc will continue in their current state. That may or may not happen and I go back to my original sentiment that the only certainty re: technology is that the future is always uncertain.

It's an assumption I'm also making, because I don't see evidence to the contrary. UHD != Profit/ROI.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to rtcy

said by rtcy See Profile
because other than a bluray DVD that comes encoded at 1080p all else wil be at the mercy of the uploader, and then the cable company's extra compression as in cramming many channels in one satellite transponder etc. etc. etc just a gimmick for people that don't have a technical clue.

"bluray DVD"??????? It's Blu-ray Disc. Where did the DVD come from? A BD has more in common with a CD than a DVD.

fishacura

join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA
reply to Greg2600

@Greg2600 I don't either. And in 1980 people didn't see tablets but they're here.....It's a fact of life. It's when not if.
--
People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1.



danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

1 edit

said by fishacura:

@Greg2600 I don't either. And in 1980 people didn't see tablets but they're here.....It's a fact of life. It's when not if.

Yes....and no...you raise a great point, 4K,8K may ultimately be the dominant format of TV but it's facing an entrenched hard to move market place that only just moved to 1080p and still gaining 1080p inertia. People are reluctant to move again, even blu ray hasn't anywhere near the market that dvd has ~30%. SACD and other formats couldn't move CD because CD only recently had replaced the record and most people couldn't hear the difference and saw Sony as attempting to make them re-buy their recently replaced media yet again among other issues (lack of players and content).

That market inertia is tough to run up against. In 30 years who knows what type of screen you may be watching...or maybe your screen is defined by the wallpaper or paint you apply....


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to fishacura

said by fishacura:

@Greg2600 I don't either. And in 1980 people didn't see tablets but they're here.....It's a fact of life. It's when not if.

Yeah well I have no interest in even thinking about it if it's 5+ years away.

billhere

join:2011-10-21
Santa Monica, CA

High prices and lack of content will delay the public's acceptance of Ultra HD for a couple years at least.

3D TV has been out for several years now. Prices are coming down but there's still not much content out there and, in general, you've got to wear those clunky glasses.



bull3964

@stargate.net
reply to danclan

DVD was lightening in a bottle. The perfect format came at the perfect time. Suddenly people had a video format that was much more portable that worked on computers (which also hit a huge portability phase at the same time with increase notebook ownership) that was higher quality than VHS. The players could also be made cheaper than VHS because of fewer moving parts.

ALL of this at a time when the market rushed into larger home video libraries (helped by TV series ownership) and the decline of rentals (helped by the race to the bottom in media pricing.)

None of this will happen again. Blu-ray came about at a time AFTER people developed large back catalogs of their favorite movies. AFTER Netflix became a verb for video streaming. AFTER redboxes and single night rentals killed the video rental store. It also happened right at the same time as the growth in smartphone and tablet ownership and the demand for more portable media. Blu-ray itself became LESS portable than DVD with more draconian DRM measures, higher licensing costs for playback software, and the growing lack of optical drives on notebooks. Ultraviolet and digital copies were too little too late and to this day still suffer from issues (network participation, streaming availability across providers, quality of streams.) Meanwhile, studios have attempted to fix eroding margins by propping up pricing on blu-ray media which has curbed ownership to some extent.

Any 4k video format is going to face the continuing uphill battle against portability of media and compromises to quality to ensure that portability as well as general cost.


JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4
reply to fishacura

said by fishacura:

@Greg2600 I don't either. And in 1980 people didn't see tablets but they're here.....It's a fact of life. It's when not if.

I don't think anyone on here is arguing that it won't happen. Pricing will eventually push down the technology, so it'll be standard equipment. The question is - how fast will the take up be? Just because you can point to one technology that is ubiquitous today doesn't change the fact that some things catch on... and some things don't. I can point to just as many examples of things that fizzled. It all comes down to consumer demand.

Even the increasing the pipe from the content providers to the service providers. What will drive that? I keep seeing on here that it's easy. I don't doubt that. That it just takes an upgrade in technology and it's done. I'll grant all of that. But even if that's all true, it changes nothing. Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean it will. You have to look at what will drive a company like CV (Rainbow) to make that update.

There are two ways that it can come about. One is through market demand. When the market wants it, producers will fall all over themselves to provide it - remember when DirecTV started the HD wars, by offering up a slate of new HD channels? That's exactly what I'm talking about. All of these companies were willing to make extremely expensive upgrades to accommodate that demand. Because people really wanted it.

But what if you have a technology that people are pretty blase about? Eventually you'll get acceptance as prices drop, and as the technology to implement becomes ubiquitous - e.g. I know ALOT of people who have no intention of upgrading to Blu Ray. They may have kick ass HD TVs, but there's no drive to upgrade to Blu Ray. But what happens when their current DVD players bite the dust? So... sure, at some point Blu Ray will be as ubiquitous (or close) as DVD.

Well, then you'll see many of them make the switch. I think the same can happen with things like implementation of upgrades to allow for increased bandwidth. If there's no drive from the market for it, then yes, eventually these providers will upgrade their equipment. But most likely only when they have to.

Not to jump on you, but all you've demonstrated in your example is that there are technologies that grow because people WANT them. That's the tablet market. And yeah, sometimes it takes time for that market to develop (when Jobs first showcased the iPad, I wondered who the hell would ever want something like that... but now I WANT one).


bull3964

@stargate.net

I know a lot of people that only buy certain things on blu-ray, but the rest of the stuff is bargain bin hunting the $4.99 dvd rack.

LOTR, sure blu-ray. Last year's romantic comedy, DVD. Many people associate HD with special effects blockbusters and really don't care about it for anything else.



rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
reply to aaronwt

said by aaronwt:

said by rtcy See Profile
because other than a bluray DVD that comes encoded at 1080p all else wil be at the mercy of the uploader, and then the cable company's extra compression as in cramming many channels in one satellite transponder etc. etc. etc just a gimmick for people that don't have a technical clue.

"bluray DVD"??????? It's Blu-ray Disc. Where did the DVD come from? A BD has more in common with a CD than a DVD.

now you are playing that old semantics game . DVD or DISC it's the same crap. as for the compression arguments, as you suggested I'm a OLD dog, but I do know that satellite transponders are around 45mbps now mind, that I no longer keep up with it, since I gace up by Cband dish 7 years ago in discust with Motorola for buying out GI. and ruining the dish fopr consumers to cram us all into one package with a 100 channels of crap. but the $$bottom line is EVEN if some of the programs are now being sent via FIBER and not sattellite, they are STILL using the GI/Motorola encoder to send it down the fiber or up the sattellite channel, and they CRAM stuff in there, about the best palyers are HBO and SHO that only send 2 of their HD channels in inside one 45mbps transponder.

but MOST have 4 to 8 channels crammed in there, so good luck blowing up FAT pixels into a even higher resolution, you will all be crying louder than when Directtv looked like you were looking through a sand blasted windshield on a truck that goes from Vegas to Tucson to Los ANgeles , (I see those from time to time at work, real joy to drive them in the morning sun as it comes up over the highway)

but bro, don't let OLd farts like me that are sarcastic and negative from lifes experiences put a damoer on buying that 4k 3d wiz bang new tv that can stream 50 internet channels too. hope you truly enjoy it and I do mean it. me I have a nasty eye that sees encryption algorithm errors much less just plain amplified low quality channels.

peace out bro. now back to upgrading this Cisco 2800 router no more DSLR


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

said by rtcy:

said by aaronwt:

said by rtcy See Profile
because other than a bluray DVD that comes encoded at 1080p all else wil be at the mercy of the uploader, and then the cable company's extra compression as in cramming many channels in one satellite transponder etc. etc. etc just a gimmick for people that don't have a technical clue.

"bluray DVD"??????? It's Blu-ray Disc. Where did the DVD come from? A BD has more in common with a CD than a DVD.

now you are playing that old semantics game . DVD or DISC it's the same crap............

??? Semantics???... Sure a DVD is a disc, but a disc is not a DVD unless it's actually a DVD you are talking about. So do you also call a CD a DVD? Even though they might look the same, they are not the same. CD is not interchangable with DVD which is not interchangable with BD.


Mr Wendal

@verizon.net
reply to fishacura

Why even bother with a small step like 4K if8*K technology is just as ready? Japan will be doing 8K Super-Hi Vision, it seems like the only reason 4K will be rolled out is to try to suck some more consumer dollars before the inevitable switch to 8K.
Go for 8K, ditch LCD for superior technologies like SED, FED, OLET, IMOD, TMOS, laser, etc., and go for as close as they can possibly get to the full CIE 1931 color space. It's not like the technology doesn't exist, but it's better to wait a little bit for costs to go down for far superior tech than be stuck with a middle ground tech. 4K will be the laserdisk of the tv/display world.



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15
reply to aaronwt

said by aaronwt:

??? Semantics???... Sure a DVD is a disc, but a disc is not a DVD unless it's actually a DVD you are talking about. So do you also call a CD a DVD? Even though they might look the same, they are not the same. CD is not interchangable with DVD which is not interchangable with BD.

funny. I just stick them in my disk player and play what ever is on them. Doesn't matter if it's movies, music, or data. I just know them as 700MB, 4.8GB, and 25GB disks. They all work fine in the same player.
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

said by DrDrew:

said by aaronwt:

??? Semantics???... Sure a DVD is a disc, but a disc is not a DVD unless it's actually a DVD you are talking about. So do you also call a CD a DVD? Even though they might look the same, they are not the same. CD is not interchangable with DVD which is not interchangable with BD.

funny. I just stick them in my disk player and play what ever is on them. Doesn't matter if it's movies, music, or data. I just know them as 700MB, 4.8GB, and 25GB disks. They all work fine in the same player.

The vast majority of people don't have a player that will read 25GB/50GB BD discs. They have a DVD player which can only read DVDs and CDs.
Expand your moderator at work


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to fishacura

Re: Ultra HD at CES

So to further confuse the entire concept, Netflix is now streaming 1080P and calling it SUPER HD! It's just HD Netty.



nascar

join:2000-02-28
Verona, NJ
kudos:2
reply to fishacura

»newscenter.verizon.com/residenti···ltra-hd/


MURICA

join:2013-01-03

said by Greg2600:

So to further confuse the entire concept, Netflix is now streaming 1080P and calling it SUPER HD! It's just HD Netty.

It's barely even HD. A 7 Mbps bitrate is pathetic for 1080p video even with H.264.

Netflix's "Super HD" is on par with some of the higher bitrate 1080i MPEG-2 channels. That's it.

It's inferior to Blu-ray, VUDU, and it's still inferior to the adult industry's 1080p downloads. (Brazzers offers 1080p MPEG-4 @ 12 Mbps; Twisty's 1080p MPEG-4 @ 8 Mbps; Naughty America 1080p MPEG-4 @ 8 Mbps; etc)

Yeah, sure you are Verizon. You can't even get your house in order when it comes to delivering proper HD.

Who do they think they're fooling?


Nezmo
The name's Bond. James Bond.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-11-10
Coppell, TX
kudos:1
reply to nascar

Wow, that's bold, even for VZ.
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Formerly Nezmo

thetick

join:2009-06-22
White Plains, NY

Oh that is completely stupid for Verizon to state such propaganda. We can't even get new HD channels!! How is Verizon going to provide UHD channels? via IP ? Is there an MPEG 6 with incredible compression on the horizon?

I have nothing but praise for Verizon Internet services, and the TV picture quality. If you take out picture quality Verizon TV service is no better than cable and some ways worse especially with integrating (ie terrible broken apps for BD players/TV/XBOX/IPAD and no android live TV). I was very impressed with Cablevison's live TV android app.


Acct101
Premium
join:2011-09-20
Bensalem, PA
reply to fishacura

I'd be ok to go back to my old digital TV and only pay $35 a month for cable. Sure the picture is better on HD, but the quality of the shows, in my opinion has taken a step back.