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JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
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[MLB] Baseball writers balk at Hall of Fame class of '13

Steroid Era has an effect...
»www.cnn.com/2013/01/09/sport/bas···pt=hp_c1

quote:
The 2013 ballot marked the first year of eligibility for several players who have been named in the probes of performance-enhancing drug use in the Major Leagues, including all-time home-run champ Barry Bonds and seven-time Cy Young winner Roger Clemens. It's only the eighth time that no player received the 75% support needed to enter the Hall of Fame, and several of the voters said the results reflected the Baseball Writers Association of America's ambivalence about the sport's "steroid era."
In my opinion, none of the juicers should ever be elected to the hall.
But I have no vote on the matter.
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MuDvAyNe
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Piazza will eventually get in but it's a shame he wasn't voted in on his first ballot.

I still believe Bonds and Clemens were HOF worthy before they did steroids.

Also I wonder if these guys take their jobs seriously. Who the hell voted for Aaron Sele.
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HiVolt
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reply to JRW2
Well I'm glad none of the roid freaks made it in... It is odd that they couldnt pick anyone else, as I also think that Piazza & Biggio should have gotten in.
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Blogger
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reply to JRW2
said by JRW2:

In my opinion, none of the juicers should ever be elected to the hall.

I agree with you. And I agree just judging the steroid users on the merits for or against them individually.

However, in aggravation, if Pete Rose can be denied for gambling despite undeniably incredible numbers performed without steroids...I mean come on. The juicers stay out.


J E F F
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I was just thinking of Pete Rose. And my understanding, he better FOR HIS team. He bet for them when he thought they had the best chance to win.

Rose needs to go in before the other guys.
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JRW2
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reply to Blogger
said by Blogger:

However, in aggravation, if Pete Rose can be denied for gambling despite undeniably incredible numbers performed without steroids...I mean come on. The juicers stay out.

I had that very conversation with him, and I agreed with him, if the "roid" guys can be considered, why can't he...
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In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!


JRW2
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reply to J E F F
said by J E F F:

I was just thinking of Pete Rose. And my understanding, he better FOR HIS team. He bet for them when he thought they had the best chance to win.

Rose needs to go in before the other guys.

Also had that conversation with him..
He said he ONLY bet with his team, never against...
--
Politics is a disease, we need a cure!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!


shaner
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join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
reply to HiVolt
Look at the ballot.

»mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd···=rss_tor

It's kind of ridiculously huge.

First off, Jack Morris and Dale Murphy are coming into their final years of eligibility. Murphy should be in; Morris, maybe simply because he's the winningest pitcher of the 80's . And Tim Raines, snubbed again. Shameful really.

As for the roid guys...well, some are really guilty by association. Some have never had charges against them proven. Yeah, Roger Clemens comes across as a condescending control freak, but nothing was ever found. Do we go by whomever Jose Canseco names in his book? Is that the definitive list of roid cheaters? Do we suspect Nolan Ryan used roids? No way a guy can throw that hard when he's that old.

What about the amphetamine players in the hall now? Mays, Mantle, Stargell (who may have also used coke), and a whole host of others for an entire generation. Weren't they cheating too by using baby-roids? Where do you draw the line? And who knows if there is a guy in the hall already who used roids?

Will future miscreants like Darryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden be similarly blacklisted because of their drug problems and run ins with the cops?

Here's my take on the roid guys; in many ways, guys like Bonds, McGwire and Sosa saved the game after the '94 strike. They generated interest at the ball park for the first time in a decade. That Home Run race between McGwire and Sosa WAS epic stuff. They did the game good in many, many ways and were also ridiculously good at what they did.
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btB

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reply to JRW2
My guess is that Bonds & Clemens will eventually get in. Doubt that Sosa or McGwire will even get in though. For Rose, it will probably be a generation or more from now when a group puts out a public campaign and gets sympathy from the public. When you break baseball's worse sin, what do you expect? It's not like the guys did not know the rules either. He was such an gambling addict that he didn't give a crap. Not only that, he lied for years saying he did not wager on baseball. Some people actually believed him for some reason, but that is another story.

Anyway, the vast majority of those guys listed were just not good enough for the Hall of Fame. Murphy was never going to get in. Raines was a fine player but was he is considered among the best-of-the-best? No, and that applies to almost everybody listed. I would put Strawberry and Gooden there as well as they do not even need to be blacklisted.


shaner
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reply to JRW2
This is a good article on the mess the HoF is in.

»espn.go.com/mlb/hof13/story/_/id···-fame-be


Jackarino
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reply to JRW2
I think Clemens should go in. Until I see actual proof that he took anything, not allegations, he should go in no question.

Next year, Biggio will be in.
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JRW2
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said by Jackarino:

Until I see actual proof that he took anything, not allegations, he should go in no question.

So the needle with his blood/DNA on it was not proof enough for you....
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RockCake
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reply to JRW2
Here's the NY Times take...


JRW2
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reply to JRW2
On the same topic...
MLB to Begin Testing Players for HGH Next Season

quote:
On the heels of Wednesday's Hall of Fame vote that saw players like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens get denied entry, Major League Baseball has announced it will begin unannounced, random testing for human growth hormone during the 2013 regular season.
»bleacherreport.com/articles/1479···pt=hp_t3

I don't believe for one minute those being tested won't know ahead of time..

I really wish this was only about their "numbers" and not how they got them...
This tarnishes the "hall" in my book...
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Politics is a disease, we need a cure!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!


Jackarino
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reply to JRW2
"Clemens was found not guilty on all six counts of lying to Congress in 2008, when he testified that he never took performance-enhancing drugs."
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Christie 2016


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said by Jackarino:

"Clemens was found not guilty on all six counts of lying to Congress in 2008, when he testified that he never took performance-enhancing drugs."

Correct he was found not guilty of the charge of lying. He wasn't found not guilty of taking steroids or PEDs.

The guy definitely took them. *Shrug*


JRW2
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reply to Jackarino
DNA expert: Needle has Clemens' cells on it
quote:
Keel said there was only a 1 in 173 trillion chance that cotton balls apparently stained with Clemens' blood could possibly belong to another randomly selected Caucasian American.
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Silvanos
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reply to JRW2
This is so stupid, they were the era of baseball... They should all go in if they have the stats and there should be a plaque stating the conditions of the era.

Look at some of the people already in there... Stupid.
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Deft
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reply to JRW2
i am pissed, for biggio to get snubbed, clemens should have been denied and biggio would have been in! god damn it.. 1 of my killer bee's woulda been in cooperstown and my rookie cards would or maybe have some value!!

next year Bags and Biggio one of you WILL be in the HOF.


alg
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said by Deft:

i am pissed, for biggio to get snubbed, clemens should have been denied and biggio would have been in! god damn it.. 1 of my killer bee's woulda been in cooperstown and my rookie cards would or maybe have some value!!

next year Bags and Biggio one of you WILL be in the HOF.

I think it's a shame that Biggio didn't get in. The guy has good enough numbers (especially considering that there's no question about him being clean), was the leader of the team, and was a class act off the field. The fact that he finished first in voting is a nice touch but he should've been in.
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