dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
2943
share rss forum feed


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Poco infrastructure question

Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
Two questions.

The first happens to be at my mother's crossing guard corner, the conduit that carries the utility power to the traffic light box is made out of a funny material. I suspect the possibility of Asbestos but could be another material.

Second, while waiting for the bus, I come across a bank of meters for an apartment complex and I notice such a complex meter for the apartments in the building. It is mixed use (downstairs has a barber shop and a salon next door and the upstairs is apartments). The poco uses drive-by automatic meter reading (where the meter reader drives by in a van equipped with a laptop and bounces a signal to the meter via an antenna in the van). Most of the residential meters are less complex than this (most are either the Itron Centron or the older analog meters with an AMR transponder in them).

Sorry the pictures are messed up, iOS has a bug that messes them up when uploading to DSLR on iOS.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
"Orangeberg" conduit (Fiber conduit). It's made out of paper (pulp) and pitch.
Unfortunately a lot of utilities used it up until the 70's. It's crap. I don't think it has asbestos in it.
A lot of duct runs (power and telephone) used this crap. It wasn't the greatest.
I heard at one time they used to use it for water and sewer pipe. I couldn't imagine it lasting more than a few years.

I don't understand what you are asking about the meters.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
reply to IowaCowboy
The complex-looking one is just a Schlumberger R300 with an FRT component/RF AMR. What else is interesting about it is that it appears to be single phase 120V only (as opposed to the normal 230/240V).

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
reply to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

Two questions.

There are no questions in your post.


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to sk1939
This style meter is commonly used when supplying 2 phase service to a customer from a standard 3 phase 120/208V distribution system.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

"Orangeberg" conduit (Fiber conduit). It's made out of paper (pulp) and pitch.

I heard at one time they used to use it for water and sewer pipe. I couldn't imagine it lasting more than a few years.

A rental I own needed some driveway drainage work done a summer or two ago, and the piping that took the driveway water out to the drainage area was Orangeburg. It was clogged and broken down and finally needed replacement (which we replaced with PVC).

But I can date it back to at least 1970 (and maybe back farther, but I can't verify that).... so that's 40+ years of service before needing to be replaced. I don't think that's bad at all for fiber pipe. I hadn't ever heard of Orangeburg until then. I thought it was kinda neat to see actually.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by SwedishRider:

so that's 40+ years of service before needing to be replaced. I don't think that's bad at all for fiber pipe. I hadn't ever heard of Orangeburg until then. I thought it was kinda neat to see actually.

You sure you weren't simply getting proper draining because it was just seeping into the soil underneath?


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to nunya
What I am wondering is what is different about this meter. It has more components in it than the standard issue WMECo analog residential meter. I am wondering if there is a possibility that they can read it by sending a signal through the power lines so they don't have to send a meter reader van out when the tenants turn over.


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
This particular meter has optical "reader" and radio circuitry to record and transmit stored usage.

A spinning disc is a standard feature for recording usage in analog/ mechanical meters, the higher the load, the faster the disc spins.

In this meter, an infrared optical circuit is added to "watch" for the black marker on the disc itself as it spins by. Another circuit records the data as seen by the optical reader. Yet another transmits the data via radio when it receives a signal from the meter reader van driving by.

This generation of meter isn't designed to use power-line communication for data acquisition.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~


sempergoofy
Premium
join:2001-07-06
Smyrna, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

"Orangeberg" conduit (Fiber conduit). It's made out of paper (pulp) and pitch.
Unfortunately a lot of utilities used it up until the 70's. It's crap. I don't think it has asbestos in it.
A lot of duct runs (power and telephone) used this crap. It wasn't the greatest.
I heard at one time they used to use it for water and sewer pipe. I couldn't imagine it lasting more than a few years.

Also know as bituminized fiber pipe. I had an encounter with it as part of the sewer vent stack in my home. If interested, for some more info and pics, scroll through this old thread: »Drain/waste/vent project planning
--
nohup rm -fr /&


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

I heard at one time they used to use it for water and sewer pipe. I couldn't imagine it lasting more than a few years.

According to the wiki page, it sucks under pressure but lom/no-pressure situations such as waste pipes and sewers it works. However it's brittle which seemed to be a major downfall.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
and yet, it still seemed to fail on the pole riser.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
said by AVD:

and yet, it still seemed to fail on the pole riser.

Seems more like it was struck/damaged than just failed.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
maybe some differential settlement or other movement between the pole and base of the riser.
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to AVD
said by AVD:

and yet, it still seemed to fail on the pole riser.

Which would be why I said:
said by cdru :
It's brittle
One of the characteristics of being brittle is that it's hard, but able to be broken or shattered easily.

I've seen PVC pipes and metal pipes damaged. They probably shouldn't be used either.

zach3
Zach
Premium
join:2000-05-04
Saint Louis, MO
reply to IowaCowboy
Here is a link to the History of Orangeburg Pipe for anyone interested.

»www.sewerhistory.org/articles/co···burg.htm

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
reply to cdru
"It was recognized early on that fibre conduit pipe (all brands) had a tendency to deform when subjected to concentrated pressures over long periods of time. Thus, the manufacturer emphasized the need to properly "bed" the pipe -- i.e., achieve good compaction all through the entire pipe zone -- using soil free of rocks/debris. (Good bedding didnt, however, prevent deformation of the pipe by tree roots.) This is a method strongly similar to how modern-day flexible pipe, such as PVC, is to be bedded."

Apparently you really can't beat heavy duty cast iron and/or reinforced cement.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Won't cast iron rust-through over time?

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
Yeah. after around 80-90 years and even then at least it won't crack and deform like PVC will. Lived in a house that was built in the mid-1940's and had HD cast-iron piping for drains, never had a problem with them. Beyond that, heavy duty cast iron is very quiet and you can't hear the drains rattle when water flows through it, whereas I can hear the PVC from across my basement. Cast iron also requires a LOT of skill and time to put it in, so it's harder to screw up, unlike PVC.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to SwedishRider
said by SwedishRider:

so that's 40+ years of service before needing to be replaced.

The entire neighborhood where I live has been build in the early 50's with orangeburg sewer lines (typically just from the city sewer line to the foundation of the home). In the 90's (and before) a lot of those sewers were being replaced which would match your 40 year service live estimate. I'm not sure whether any of the old orangeburg remains but the topic of sewer line replacement has only come up very rarely in the last decade while it was a hot topic before.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to sk1939
The cast iron in my house is failing after 53 years. Unfortunately for me, I literally pushed a hole in the pipe with my finger one day.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to leibold
One of my rent houses was built in 55. We just pulled a permit to replace the orangeburg. It has severely deformed to the point that the 4" pipe is less than 2" tall in some places. Have another house of same age and have leak in cast iron from rust through.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
said by robbin:

One of my rent houses was built in 55. We just pulled a permit to replace the orangeburg. It has severely deformed to the point that the 4" pipe is less than 2" tall in some places. Have another house of same age and have leak in cast iron from rust through.

Our previous house that we rented (built in 1949) had horrible plumbing. The toilet was always backing up. The town was notorious for orangeburg as you were always seeing yards being dug up because of orangeburg. I suspect our old house had orangeburg.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

You sure you weren't simply getting proper draining because it was just seeping into the soil underneath?

Could be. It crumbled as it was pulled out... it could have been riddled with cracks and holes for all I really know. But it was problem free for 40 years.


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

The cast iron in my house is failing after 53 years. Unfortunately for me, I literally pushed a hole in the pipe with my finger one day.

We sold my my Mom's house a few months ago. It was built in 1961 with cast drain lines. During the buyer's inspection they found that the cast had rusted out and failed in multiple places; we had to replace it.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·AT&T Midwest
·Time Warner Cable
reply to jack b
said by jack b:

This style meter is commonly used when supplying 2 phase service to a customer from a standard 3 phase 120/208V distribution system.

So phase-to-ground would be 120V and phase-to-phase would still be 208V, wouldn't it?

I was thinking it might be the "house" meter, for common area lighting, maybe a fire alarm system and other small loads on a minimum-cost service that would never need 208 or 240V circuits.
--
USNG:
16TDN2870
Find your USNG coordinates:
USNGWeb


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
Yup, 120 V to neutral, 208 V to phase. The meter is rated for 200 amps, the load could be anything up to that.


whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9
reply to ArgMeMatey
said by ArgMeMatey:

said by jack b:

This style meter is commonly used when supplying 2 phase service to a customer from a standard 3 phase 120/208V distribution system.

So phase-to-ground would be 120V and phase-to-phase would still be 208V, wouldn't it?

Exactly what we have throughout NYC, and likewise throughout many other cities. Its single-phase 208/120V power, not 'two-phase'.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·AT&T Midwest
·Time Warner Cable
said by whizkid3:

Its single-phase 208/120V power, not 'two-phase'.

Thank you. I was wondering how you'd measure 2 phases on a 120V meter. Getting confused with 240V grounded B phase.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
said by ArgMeMatey:

said by whizkid3:

Its single-phase 208/120V power, not 'two-phase'.

Thank you. I was wondering how you'd measure 2 phases on a 120V meter. Getting confused with 240V grounded B phase.

Is that delta...??

Or are you referring to a "high leg" system?